Will S’pore residents really throw unbagged rubbish down chute over plastic bag charge?

[fade_white]

My ceca neighbour already doing that. The trash chute is always dripping with curry.

 

[Chunchunmaru]

The timing for implementation itself is bad. The nature of our country exacerbates this problem - we're one of the densest populations per square kilometre in the world.

If you limit groups to 5, there's going to be more people packing food home or cooking. This increases the amount of unconsumed food going down those chutes.

Let's not even talk about how the chutes have been clogging recently from unprecedented numbers of online purchases arising from covid.

I walked past a recycling bin the day before Chinese New Year. There was twice the amount of cardboard there than the bin could hold. 30 minutes later, it rained. Heavily. Imagine the poor cleaners having to sort out the mess that resulted.

And this time around, you can't blame the population for not trying to do the right thing.

It's quite clear that the people implementing these schemes aren't doing enough number crunching or walking the grounds enough to see what's going on.

 

[WW1 Flying Ace]

The timing for implementation itself is bad. The nature of our country exacerbates this problem - we're one of the densest populations per square kilometre in the world.

If you limit groups to 5, there's going to be more people packing food home or cooking. This increases the amount of unconsumed food going down those chutes.

Let's not even talk about how the chutes have been clogging recently from unprecedented numbers of online purchases arising from covid.

I walked past a recycling bin the day before Chinese New Year. There was twice the amount of cardboard there than the bin could hold. 30 minutes later, it rained. Heavily. Imagine the poor cleaners having to sort out the mess that resulted.

And this time around, you can't blame the population for not trying to do the right thing.

It's quite clear that the people implementing these schemes aren't doing enough number crunching or walking the grounds enough to see what's going on.

On a somewhat related note, it occurred to me that during these COVID years, some of the waste can be considered bio hazard (used personal hygiene products, used ART test kits etc) and need to be bagged properly. Early on and during SARs, it was already established that viruses can spread through sewage.

Hopefully the gov has better sense than to limit access to readily available bagging.

 

[Ctrl_Alt_Del]

The timing for implementation itself is bad. The nature of our country exacerbates this problem - we're one of the densest populations per square kilometre in the world.

If you limit groups to 5, there's going to be more people packing food home or cooking. This increases the amount of unconsumed food going down those chutes.

Let's not even talk about how the chutes have been clogging recently from unprecedented numbers of online purchases arising from covid.

I walked past a recycling bin the day before Chinese New Year. There was twice the amount of cardboard there than the bin could hold. 30 minutes later, it rained. Heavily. Imagine the poor cleaners having to sort out the mess that resulted.

And this time around, you can't blame the population for not trying to do the right thing.

It's quite clear that the people implementing these schemes aren't doing enough number crunching or walking the grounds enough to see what's going on.

Wet cardboard is considered contaminated, cannot be recycled anymore.

 

[OnsenOng]

On a somewhat related note, it occurred to me that during these COVID years, some of the waste can be considered bio hazard (used personal hygiene products, used ART test kits etc) and need to be bagged properly. Early on and during SARs, it was already established that viruses can spread through sewage.

Hopefully the gov has better sense than to limit access to really available bagging.

Different agency, different kpi. You fail your kpi is not my fault.

 

[1982-1994]

 

[pwongkk]

First, those scholars in NEA and those who want to play righteous will never understand the physics.

At the height of which the rubbish is thrown down from the rubbish chute, say from 10th floor, on impact with the bin, the plastic bag will also burst. The contents will be scattered around.

Some will say at least the bag holds most of it, only a bit gets scattered out. Then it goes to the curry discussion, even in a plastic bag, the curry will still spill out on impact or crushed by the weight of the rubbish as it piles up. Anyway, when the compactor is operated, it crushes and compacts the rubbish, all the bagged contents are spilled out anyway.

Will the scholars tell us next to use double bags? Then that defeats the original purpose on cutting use of plastic bags.

 

[gulp]

Will S’pore residents really throw unbagged rubbish down chute over plastic bag charge?​

Will people throw unbagged rubbish and kampung spirit down the chute if bag charges kick in?​

Denise Chong

Some netizens kicked up a stink over a recent report which said shoppers will likely have to pay for a disposable bag at supermarkets. ST PHOTO: KELVIN CHNG

PUBLISHED

FEB 6, 2022, 5:00 AM SGT

Should we be afraid of "bag rage" if a disposable carrier bag charge kicks in here next year? Abusive incidents involving retail staff flared up in Western Australia in 2018 after a supermarket chain removed single-use plastic bags from its stores before a statewide ban began.
In Singapore, "bag rage" may erupt in a less open but gross way if lots of people throw unbagged rubbish down chutes. This is what some are threatening to do or, at least, they're painting a vivid scenario of it.
"We are going to pour our rubbish and leftover discarded meals etc directly into the rubbish chutes! The authorities cannot blame us if we do not bag them, make a mess and create health, environmental and various contamination issues... breeding pests," wrote a Facebook user.

Rubbish chute rage?​

Some netizens kicked up a stink over a recent report which said shoppers will likely have to pay up to 10 cents for a disposable bag at supermarkets starting from the first half of next year.
This was proposed in the National Environment Agency's guidelines on a disposable carrier bag charge announced recently. The guidelines are intended to discourage the excessive consumption of disposable bags and promote the use of reusable ones. The majority of supermarkets here are expected to implement this charge in their stores.
"I don't believe in this environmental nonsense. It is profit at all cost genius corporation. We actually need these plastic bags for garbage disposal, otherwise I will just dump the garbage 'raw' without any plastic bag," wrote another Facebook user.
"Trying hard to save money monthly. Now need to spend money to buy plastic bags for garbage disposal."

Are statements like these just the angry words of people understandably upset at having one more thing to pay for amid a sea of bills? Most people can empathise with being frustrated with additional costs.
Surely, though, they will not cut off their nose to spite their face?
Visions of virus-laden wet tissues, poop-filled nappies and rotting vegetables tumbling down and staining the chute before falling into a stinking, spumous soup in the bin at the bottom leave us retching.
And actually, it's the items which do not fall into the garbage gloop that are more worrying. Consider a soiled sanitary product stuck somewhere between the seventh and eighth floor. Char kway teow gummed up around the third floor.
The chute heaving with hungry cockroaches from top to bottom.
Surely they will not throw down unbagged noodles tangled with Sadako-esque hair pulled from a bathroom drain?
When they and neighbours open their chute doors, the pests will scuttle into their flats. The noxious fumes will drift past their noses.
Surely they will not do that to the cleaners?

<p>ST20200529_202060131232 Kua Chee Siong/ pixcovid30/</p>
<p>Generic pix of foreign workers clearing the common rubbish bin at a HDB block in Toa Payoh Lorong 1 at 4.20pm on 28 May 2020 during the circuit breaker period.</p> PHOTO: ST
But on second thoughts, there is plenty of evidence of how little some people care about neighbours and cleaners.
Look at residents sneakily ditching bulky items in common areas.
Look at Facebook user Joanne Ho writing of tenants throwing their food waste in the lift area in response to landlords sealing off refuse chutes inside flats: "Happened at my level… End up with lots and lots of cockroaches."
Look at the litter beside and on top of instead of inside dustbins, the fecklessly flicked confetti of cigarette butts, and the Covid-19 stickers stuck on poles, walls, and even plants.
Surely, they will carry out the threat of throwing their unbagged rubbish and kampung spirit down the chute.
We will see if the bag charges kick in.
It is interesting that some people closely associate bagging rubbish with getting free carrier bags from supermarkets. How is it that the responsibility to keep community areas clean is based on getting free bags?
Facebook user Edwin Cheng had a blunt rhetorical response to that issue, commenting that the authorities do not give you toilet paper for free, so do you wipe your behind?

ST ILLUSTRATION: MANNY FRANCISCO

Cashier counter rage​

One man put his hands around a supermarket worker's throat, The West Australian newspaper reported in 2018 about plastic bag rage.
"I'm being told that I'm money-grabbing scum," one worker said in a survey of Woolworths supermarket staff about the abuse. "I've had shopping tossed back at my work station."
Facebook user Joceline Joo echoed the potential fear in relation to Singapore's proposed bag charge: "They need to prepare an unwanted box for those who don't have bags and refuse to pay for plastic bags."
Supermarkets need to prepare for more than that - possibly initially more staff trained to help offended customers even though the transition has been inching slowly along for everyone to get used to the idea.
I dread reading reports of customers yelling at cashier aunties, just like it's awful to read about guards and bus drivers getting abused by people angry about each new incarnation of Covid-19 rules.
MORE ON THIS TOPIC
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Countering rage​

The authorities or community groups can also prepare by having a wider system for residents to share with the neighbourhood their excess carrier bags for bagging rubbish. After all, people have long complained about their massive collection of plastic bags.
Facebook user C M Samuel commented: "Provided you have a lot of waste to throw every day, on average, a family of four will probably use two (plastic bags) per day for their kitchen waste and other waste. I had thrown away close to 1kg of plastic bags that I collected over a period of time despite using (plastic bags) as garbage bags."
We can also prepare by broadening our personal definition about what a garbage bag can look like. It does not have to only be the classic supermarket bag with handles.
I found that the plastic bags that toilet rolls come in and bigger online shopping packaging are handy for lining smaller bins.
Cut them open in a neater way that leaves them usable as liners.

ST20210506_202137056893/pixgeneric/Jason Quah

Generic photo of toilet paper at FairPrice Group Supply Chain Business Unit, Benoi Distribution Centre on May 6, 2021.

Essential goods, stock up, ntuc fairprice
//
President Halimah Yacob will be visiting FairPrice Group Supply Chain Business Unit, Benoi Distribution Centre as part of her community engagement. PHOTO: ST
The plastic packaging that smaller items come in can be reused to hold small amounts of food waste. If there are little pre-punched holes, you can tie them off to make them usable.
They do not even have to be bags - for example, use disposable food tubs with tight-fitting lids.
Use them instead of immediately binning them.
Use them all and use them harder.
If a potential 10-cent carrier bag charge triggers anger in you, that's fine. It is okay to be fed up about rising costs. Let it also trigger an angry rethinking of how you can use what you already have more intensely.
Just don't throw your sense of responsibility down the chute along with unbagged rubbish.

 

[Mystyque]

The timing for implementation itself is bad. The nature of our country exacerbates this problem - we're one of the densest populations per square kilometre in the world.

If you limit groups to 5, there's going to be more people packing food home or cooking. This increases the amount of unconsumed food going down those chutes.

Let's not even talk about how the chutes have been clogging recently from unprecedented numbers of online purchases arising from covid.

I walked past a recycling bin the day before Chinese New Year. There was twice the amount of cardboard there than the bin could hold. 30 minutes later, it rained. Heavily. Imagine the poor cleaners having to sort out the mess that resulted.

And this time around, you can't blame the population for not trying to do the right thing.

It's quite clear that the people implementing these schemes aren't doing enough number crunching or walking the grounds enough to see what's going on.

I think they did enough number crunching, just maybe not the type we think they should be doing. More likely they were crunching how much gross profit will increase from this.

 

[pwongkk]

all chutes to be outfitted with coin slot, insert $1 to throw rubbish

Then bring down to lvl 1 rubbish bin to dump.

 

[Senna Wales]

Which EDMWer said that? Who else uses the word "raw"?

 

[Mystyque]

Facebook user C M Samuel commented: "Provided you have a lot of waste to throw every day, on average, a family of four will probably use two (plastic bags) per day for their kitchen waste and other waste. I had thrown away close to 1kg of plastic bags that I collected over a period of time despite using (plastic bags) as garbage bags."

This varies from household to household. Those with babies and young children, especially still on diapers, will have more garbage to throw unless they have no sense of hygiene.

 

[PikaPika33]

Then bring down to lvl 1 rubbish bin to dump.

charge more if bring downstairs
like put 10c to go toilet like that

 

[Senna Wales]

Oil refineries and petrochemical plants emit way more carbon than plastic bags. Just one long haul plane flight emit few hundred tons of co2.

Plastic bags have smaller carbon footprint than paper or cotton. Oil-guzzler SUV has smaller carbon footprint than a dog. A cruise ship has the carbon footprint of 1 million cars.

 

[pwongkk]

Judging at the rate of different stores charging for plastic bags, it's a matter of time Singaporeans would throw their rubbish unbagged.

The biggest joke is when someone gets robbed not for his valuables, but plastic bags.

 

[pwongkk]

Plastic bags have smaller carbon footprint than paper or cotton. Oil-guzzler SUV has smaller carbon footprint than a dog. A cruise ship has the carbon footprint of 1 million cars.

In the first place, NEA is wrong to say single use plastic bags.

The plastic bags have been used at least twice when it was thrown away.

First is to bag your purchases from.the store.
Second is bagging your rubbish before it goes into the rubbish chute.

The real single use plastics are those used to seal chilli bottles at the cap, or those wrapping a product or those used by transport companies. Again this shows the gov misses the real point on single use plastics.

 

[maybez]

confirm 100% WILL! when every household residual plastic bag runs out.... everyone will just throw things down the chute unbagged! And all the chutes will be so dirty and smelly and insects crawling all over! wonder how HDB able to wash all these chutes internally sia... if they blast water from top floor chute to bottom, all the **** will burst out from all the individual unit chute lor, the whole kitchen will be smelly and dirty! every house units in the flat will be screaming then!

Haiz.. earlier intro the ownself return tray idea, and now intro this no plastic bag idea, seems more problems are created instead of solving for all..... wonder where these people get their honors degree sia.... really hopeless..

 

[pwongkk]

Those bins by town ciuncils are everywhere. If not then bring to bus stops or mrt stations bins.

Let the tourists see all the rubbish everywhere.

 

[Mystyque]

I think people are just frustrated about the logical conflicts in the policies brought about by policy makers who don't put more thought into the consequences, and the net benefit to the environment is actually zero.

I don't think the majority will be that inconsiderate to throw waste without bagging first. It is after all their own homes that will be affected by the resulting pests and filth.

I just wished the policy makers get out of their ivory towers and try to understand the ground first though

Actually, I think the net benefit to environment is actually negative.
- reusable bags has higher environmental impact than plastic bag on a 1 to 1 basis, depending on the material, it can take as much as 5000 reuse before the bag produces a net benefit. That's like going grocery shopping every day for 20 years. How many people will still be using the same bag?
- it is not practical for most people to carry several reusable bags all the time just in case they need to go grocery shopping. So they will still end up needing to use plastic bags, this reduces the overall environmental benefit of this move
- people may travel home to drop off their work stuff before going out grocery shopping with multiple reusable bags, some may drive more as a result. 1 plastic bag is roughly equivalent to driving 160m. Pretty sure if they need to drive, the supermarket will be more than 160m. A 2km back/fro trip would end up with an environmental cost of more than 25 plastic bags
- then considerate people will still want to continue to bag their garbage so they will end up buying plastic bags...

 

[Ctrl_Alt_Del]

I think they did enough number crunching, just maybe not the type we think they should be doing. More likely they were crunching how much gross profit will increase from this.

Read that supermarket gave out 820 millions plastic bag in 2020. Found online an average supermarket weigh 5.5 gram. C02 footprint of plastic is about 6 gram of c02 per gram including the production and incineration. = about 27060 tons co2. or about 29 airbus a380 singapore to london round trips carbon footprint.

If SIA use other more efficient planes, can cut the carbon footprint by up to half.