Windows 10 ping stability issue

F

fleas1

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Hello,

I notice something weird on windows 10.

if you can try and test this out for me and give me a feedback on what is happening that will be great.


In a nutshell:
PC to Router(wired connection) usually 1ms or less(unless you have a very complex switch/router layout)

open a cmd line and type "ping <your router ip> -t"

while its pinging check your base line ping which would be (<=1ms)

Now open a multiplayer game that uses internet connection.

Connection seems to spike up as much as 9ms.

I test this on a friend of my friend's pc using windows 10.

Some of them spike up to 4ms or what not.




If anyone can explain what is happening that would be great because i don't remember this happening on windows xp or 7.



im quite sure its not my hardware or software, these are the test i have done:

Reinstalled chipset and ethernet drivers
swap a new ethernet cable
updated router firmware

Retested router with new firmware:
PC to router shows spikes but laptop only shows 1ms. so with that, definitely not a router issue. My router is an Asus ac68u.
 
yusoffb01

yusoffb01

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C21aunV.png


seems ok. using a 1.4Ghz quad core router
 
F

fleas1

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Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=2ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=5ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=6ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64

this is while playing gw2 as well

im on 3700x so maybe thats why


someone told me that windows 10 ping command now includes processing delay
 
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F

fleas1

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i found the issue, its the windows 10 update; .net framework cumulative updates

these are the updates in sequence.


February 9, 2021-KB4601050 Cumulative Update for .NET Framework 3.5 and 4.8 for Windows 10, version 2004, Windows Server, version 2004, Windows 10, version 20H2, and Windows Server, version 20H2

January 12, 2021-KB4586876 Cumulative Update Preview for .NET Framework 3.5 and 4.8 for Windows 10 Version 2004

October 13, 2020-KB4578968 Cumulative Update for .NET Framework 3.5 and 4.8 for Windows 10 , version 20H2

Uninstalling KB4601050, KB4586876 will appear.
Uninstalling KB 4586876, KB4578968 might appear.
Some PC will be unable to uninstall KB4578968. In this case, you are stuck with the ping instability bug
 
A

AKK

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Otl5ywY.png


Speedtest using windows 7 vm.

I don't see why this is a windows 10 issue.
 
H

hg2

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Xia me tai zi huh?

Windows 10 Version 1909 cumulative update 202102, ping intranet NAS...for an hour all <1ms....

Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time=2ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time=3ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.31.12: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
 
F

fleas1

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AKK said:
Otl5ywY.png


Speedtest using windows 7 vm.

I don't see why this is a windows 10 issue.
Click to expand...

thanks for the test.

because in the past, i was using windows xp and 7(during the days of cable broadband), i always do a ping to my router and google.com to test stability of ping and its always 1ms or less. even with speedtest, the connection ping latency may increase(because of the limited bandwidth) but will never spike.


can't be just opening a game = ping latency. PC has improved over the years.


I honestly not sure what is happening


The only thing we can do is hope future windows patches/update fixes this.
 
Godeau

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Looks more like a hardware issue to me? Getting 2ms(rare 3ms) constantly on a i7 8700k pc running bdo private server and a crypto wallet node simultaneously, not getting any spikes like what you claimed

On my current pc 1ms to 2ms(idling pc)

fleas1 said:
Retested router with new firmware:
PC to router shows spikes but laptop only shows 1ms. so with that, definitely not a router issue. My router is an Asus ac68u.
Click to expand...

Are you testing the laptop using same rj45 cable and same router port?

Imo, the biggest flaw in your test is to rule out your router so quickly. I'm not saying it's definitely your router at fault but a failing router due to old age will show subtle connection spikes that are very hard to pick up, making troubleshooting extremely annoying because it is intermittent, even to the point of thinking it's somewhere/something else along your hardware and not the router itself. Had an Asus ac3200 with this issue btw, it lasted me 4 years+ and tons of frustration
 
Last edited:
F

fleas1

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Godeau said:
Looks more like a hardware issue to me? Getting 2ms(rare 3ms) constantly on a i7 8700k pc running bdo private server and a crypto wallet node simultaneously, not getting any spikes like what you claimed

On my current pc 1ms to 2ms(idling pc)



Are you testing the laptop using same rj45 cable and same router port?

Imo, the biggest flaw in your test is to rule out your router so quickly. I'm not saying it's definitely your router at fault but a failing router due to old age will show subtle connection spikes that are very hard to pick up, making troubleshooting extremely annoying because it is intermittent, even to the point of thinking it's somewhere/something else along your hardware and not the router itself. Had an Asus ac3200 with this issue btw, it lasted me 4 years+ and tons of frustration
Click to expand...

That's a fair point. So let me explain the other tests i did that i did not post because it will be an extremely long post.

I used my company's PC to test as well because it was CNY holiday and i was the only one back at work(was doing normal routine duties). I tested it out.

company is using a server as a router(dhcp) and a firewall gateway(pretty exp).

That PC is almost the same spec as my home one.

Company PC after a windows update, started to spike in ping when I launched a game.

Uninstalling the said windows updates at the top, the spikes immediate was gone and the highest spike was 2ms or 3ms.

I reinstalled the updates and again just for the sake of confirmation. It started to spike really bad like 2 digit spikes.

Uninstalled and test again. the spikes are gone.

I did this about 3 times thats how i narrowed down the update.



I tried the same thing to my home pc but i was unable to uninstall the last .net framework. I do notice that if i don't install the FEB update, the spikes are noticeably lesser(for my home PC)



Another way i ruled out my home router was using a Laptop wired connected to the router.

Laptop pings the router while the spikes are ongoing to my PC
Laptop also pings the PC.

Laptop shows <=1ms all the way while my PC spikes up to 20+ms
Laptop shows the Ping to the PC spiking.

This shows that it was my PC spiking and not the router.


And yes i have even tested my ethernet ports(Mobo has 2 ethernet ports, 1 for 1gbps and 2.5gbps) and ethernet cable itself


I Hope this helps eliminate my router, cable and ethernet port.

And yes the laptop also exhibits the same thing when launching a game(spikes when game is launched)

Note: I have asked people in uk, aus, nz, U.S, sweden, to test this out and most of them have the same issue.

Also: I appreciate your time and effort in helping test this with me. I already sent a feedback via feedback hub on windows. hopefully they can solve this
 
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fleas1

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Here's a proof that doing speedtest you should not experienced ping spikes.

this is company's PC with .net framework cumulative update removed
My ISP is business and capped at 100mbps.

smdFcMP.png

here to see the updates i have
Hiq6nw6.png
 
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chewmeyo

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fleas1 said:
That's a fair point. So let me explain the other tests i did that i did not post because it will be an extremely long post.

I used my company's PC to test as well because it was CNY holiday and i was the only one back at work(was doing normal routine duties). I tested it out.

company is using a server as a router(dhcp) and a firewall gateway(pretty exp).

That PC is almost the same spec as my home one.

Company PC after a windows update, started to spike in ping when I launched a game.

Uninstalling the said windows updates at the top, the spikes immediate was gone and the highest spike was 2ms or 3ms.

I reinstalled the updates and again just for the sake of confirmation. It started to spike really bad like 2 digit spikes.

Uninstalled and test again. the spikes are gone.

I did this about 3 times thats how i narrowed down the update.



I tried the same thing to my home pc but i was unable to uninstall the last .net framework. I do notice that if i don't install the FEB update, the spikes are noticeably lesser(for my home PC)



Another way i ruled out my home router was using a Laptop wired connected to the router.

Laptop pings the router while the spikes are ongoing to my PC
Laptop also pings the PC.

Laptop shows <=1ms all the way while my PC spikes up to 20+ms
Laptop shows the Ping to the PC spiking.

This shows that it was my PC spiking and not the router.


And yes i have even tested my ethernet ports(Mobo has 2 ethernet ports, 1 for 1gbps and 2.5gbps) and ethernet cable itself


I Hope this helps eliminate my router, cable and ethernet port.

And yes the laptop also exhibits the same thing when launching a game(spikes when game is launched)

Note: I have asked people in uk, aus, nz, U.S, sweden, to test this out and most of them have the same issue.

Also: I appreciate your time and effort in helping test this with me. I already sent a feedback via feedback hub on windows. hopefully they can solve this
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip bro. Did you get to sort it out now? How long did it take you?
 
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fleas1

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chewmeyo said:
Thanks for the tip bro. Did you get to sort it out now? How long did it take you?
Click to expand...

I took like a week(7days) of constant testing and asking people to test out cmd line pings to see if its widespread. Seems to be.

I can't sort it out on my Home PC because i can't remove the .net framework patch that comes with 20h2(KB4578968)

So im stuck but at least i figured out the issue(sort of)

I still not very sure if .net framework updates are causing the issue. Need more people to test
 
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hwzlite

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fleas1 said:
I took like a week(7days) of constant testing and asking people to test out cmd line pings to see if its widespread. Seems to be.

I can't sort it out on my Home PC because i can't remove the .net framework patch that comes with 20h2(KB4578968)

So im stuck but at least i figured out the issue(sort of)

I still not very sure if .net framework updates are causing the issue. Need more people to test
Click to expand...


Hmmm....interesting.

Any diff. if conducting ICMP echo request packets using Test-Connection: Ping Remote Hosts the PowerShell Way which its uses WMI class rather then Ping.exe (API call)?


Example: test-connection x.x.x.x -count 10
 
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fleas1

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hwzlite said:
Hmmm....interesting.

Any diff. if conducting ICMP echo request packets using Test-Connection: Ping Remote Hosts the PowerShell Way which its uses WMI class rather then Ping.exe (API call)?


Example: test-connection x.x.x.x -count 10
Click to expand...

ooo, that is interesting. my friend did ask me to try a different way to ping(using a different protocol) it is this one: https://sourceforge.net/projects/winmtr/ . and it still shows similar results.


But in the first place it the icmp should not be having issues.
 
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cscs3

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Godeau said:
Looks more like a hardware issue to me? Getting 2ms(rare 3ms) constantly on a i7 8700k pc running bdo private server and a crypto wallet node simultaneously, not getting any spikes like what you claimed

On my current pc 1ms to 2ms(idling pc)


Are you testing the laptop using same rj45 cable and same router port?

Imo, the biggest flaw in your test is to rule out your router so quickly. I'm not saying it's definitely your router at fault but a failing router due to old age will show subtle connection spikes that are very hard to pick up, making troubleshooting extremely annoying because it is intermittent, even to the point of thinking it's somewhere/something else along your hardware and not the router itself. Had an Asus ac3200 with this issue btw, it lasted me 4 years+ and tons of frustration
Click to expand...

Also make sure reboot the router and test again. It could also be a router fw issue.
 
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fleas1

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hwzlite said:
Indeed somewhere in windows core affected.

How about monitoring it with Process Explorer , correlate any cpu process spike when ping spike as well?
Click to expand...


honestly need someone who is really good with packet sniffing/process identifying to do this. There's a lot going on and its really difficult to find




cscs3 said:
Also make sure reboot the router and test again. It could also be a router fw issue.
Click to expand...

I have already concluded it is not the router's issue.

I tested this on many PCs in different areas.

If you see page 1, where i said i use my laptop to ping test to see if router is indeed lagging during the ping spike, it is not.
 
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