Working Shoe for Young Exec - Part 2

[e3l1s5]

Thanks for the "Shoe Galore" day man!
Meccariello is impeccable.

Yeah, yesterday was an eye opener for me. beyond Carmina, also had a chance to try a pair of Enzo. Very comfortable and tempted now.

 

[thundermarch]

Yeah, yesterday was an eye opener for me. beyond Carmina, also had a chance to try a pair of Enzo. Very comfortable and tempted now.

You and I have very similar feet and so I had a feeling the 804 in size 8 would fit you well. And indeed it did.
Off all the lasts I've ever tried, it fits me the best.
Good thing is, Lusso has most of their stock shoes in 804.

 

[evangel21]

You and I have very similar feet and so I had a feeling the 804 in size 8 would fit you well. And indeed it did.
Off all the lasts I've ever tried, it fits me the best.
Good thing is, Lusso has most of their stock shoes in 804.

Hey TM, I have a question regarding the 804. I size down by half for 804 but I find there is quite a bit of space in the toe box area. I guess it is natural given the 804 is elongated but even the laces are closed. Should I size by 1 full size instead? But I am worried that the shoe length will be too short.

Of course, this problem can now be solved by visiting Lusso but paiseh to try because they are all brand new haha. Would love to hear your thoughts on this.

 

[arcfire]

Bumping the GMTO. Still looking for 1 more participant to make this dream a reality!

1. Arcfire
2. All in a Day
3. anodize
4. ?????

So to summarize the GMTO AIAD and I have in mind:

Model: Button shoe (not boots)

Design: Plain captoe balmoral style with plain stitching.

Sides will be like pic A below and not the straight across kind and there will not be broguing.

Color: Black calf for bottom, Loden suede for top. There will be a centre line where the lace will be as with all button boots but we will use the same suede material so there will not be a contrast there like what you see in pic B.

Sole: Preference for single sole with topy. If anyone has any thoughts, let me know.

Last: Likely the 946

Pic A:

Pic B:

Pic B pretty much sums up the design of the shoe sans the contrasting centre line on the suede part and the seam that runs on the side of the shoe.

Anyone out that that is keen, let me know!

I'm planning to run it through Lusso if we get enough people on board.

 

[thundermarch]

Hey TM, I have a question regarding the 804. I size down by half for 804 but I find there is quite a bit of space in the toe box area. I guess it is natural given the 804 is elongated but even the laces are closed. Should I size by 1 full size instead? But I am worried that the shoe length will be too short.

Of course, this problem can now be solved by visiting Lusso but paiseh to try because they are all brand new haha. Would love to hear your thoughts on this.

I can see what you mean.
I do agree that the 804 has quite a bit of volume in the toe box, even though it appears quite sleek on observation (the magic of this last).

Length, of course, is the most important aspect of fit. I've tried sizing down for the 946 to "compensate" for a relatively higher instep but ended up finding the shoes a little short.

If you find that it is the toe box that feels way too wide and that you still have too much room in the instep, you might want to experiment with a narrower width.

Though the 804 does not conventionally come in E width, I've once managed to get solegarb to arrange for a narrow width 74945 for one of my GMTO participants. Undoubtedly, this will incur extra cost. But maybe you can try to work something out with Lusso.

Alternatively, you can experiment with a sock liner. It does help with the fit issues you mentioned.

 

[cokiee]

Hi friends, I have a query and would like to seek your advice please. In the picture attached is one of my first pairs of GYW shoes; these are Loake, corrected grain, and bought locally.

Despite my shoe care regime of cleaning and creaming + waxing, the side has cracked. I am aware that this cannot be resolved, but am curious to understand why in order to avoid it in future.

I note that this is also where my toes bend, and that instead of creasing, there is a very distinct fold line across, versus a crease you see in shoes which use better leather.

Could this be a function of the leather used? Perhaps because my shoes are (as I understand now) a bit bigger than I need? Or maybe that they've been kept in the local storage facility for a fairly long time before I bought them? I have also noticed that on the insides, there are 'hotspots' - parts where the lining has worn off, and these are similarly around the fold area.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated!

Also, pity to have missed TM's 'open house'. Would've been a big eye opener!

Sent from Xiaomi MI 3W using GAGT

 

[All in a Day]

Hi friends, I have a query and would like to seek your advice please. In the picture attached is one of my first pairs of GYW shoes; these are Loake, corrected grain, and bought locally.

Despite my shoe care regime of cleaning and creaming + waxing, the side has cracked. I am aware that this cannot be resolved, but am curious to understand why in order to avoid it in future.

I note that this is also where my toes bend, and that instead of creasing, there is a very distinct fold line across, versus a crease you see in shoes which use better leather.

Could this be a function of the leather used? Perhaps because my shoes are (as I understand now) a bit bigger than I need? Or maybe that they've been kept in the local storage facility for a fairly long time before I bought them? I have also noticed that on the insides, there are 'hotspots' - parts where the lining has worn off, and these are similarly around the fold area.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated!

Also, pity to have missed TM's 'open house'. Would've been a big eye opener!

Sent from Xiaomi MI 3W using GAGT

Unfortunately, you have presented a classic example of the disadvantages of corrected grain vs full grain leather..

 

[thundermarch]

@cokiee
Very sorry to see that.

Unfortunately, I think there are a couple of issues here.

1) Leather
Understandably, there are obvious deficiencies with corrected grain leather, despite your best efforts.
The grain confers most of the tensile strength to any particular hide.
Corrected grain leather comes from inferior hides with noticeable damage to the grain layer. These defects are buffed down and a thick layer of synthetic topcoat is applied to hide these defects. All these cause problems with the strength of leather.
The topcoat is also an occlusive layer that may partially prevent any creams you use, from moisturizing the leather as it should.
Eventually, this can give rise to cracking of the leather.
Also, the fact that it's been lying around in storage for awhile, probably means that the leather had already dried out somewhat by the time you bought it.

2) Fit
If the last doesn't suit you, in particular, if the vamp area is too voluminous for your foot. It would cause deep / excessive crease lines on the vamp that will eventually cause cracking with repeated wear. With deep creases, more dust and grit gets caught in the wrinkles, and as the leather flexes, causes more abrasion against grain, wearing it down. This could even be a problem in full grain leather if the shoes are not cared for properly.

Bottom line is to try and avoid corrected grain leather, and to pay attention to fit, in particular the instep and vamp volume.

 

[brightside]

Actually just wore my pair of Loakes today and there is some creasing at the same area where @cokiee shared. I'm wearing a pair of UK9s and UK8s were too tight while UK10s were too loose.

I understand that there would definitely be some creasing, but I am abit worried now....Just curious, how much crease is ok?

 

[evangel21]

Thanks @Thundermarch! I do like the look of the 804. I can get away with the width especially with thicker socks. The high instep is something I have to live with unless I go with your suggestion of the sock liner or size down a full size. Which I would have to ask Ryan to let me try 5.5.

In comparison I do prefer the 74945 as it fits me snug in 6.5UK with just about enough room at the toe box albeit with closed laces again.

 

[arcfire]

Actually just wore my pair of Loakes today and there is some creasing at the same area where @cokiee shared. I'm wearing a pair of UK9s and UK8s were too tight while UK10s were too loose.

I understand that there would definitely be some creasing, but I am abit worried now....Just curious, how much crease is ok?

Don't worry too much, it's just shoes after all.

There's no metric to indicate how much crease is ok and how much is not. Wear it in good health and enjoy the shoes. That's what matters the most.

 

[cokiee]

Unfortunately, you have presented a classic example of the disadvantages of corrected grain vs full grain leather..

@cokiee
Very sorry to see that.

Unfortunately, I think there are a couple of issues here.

1) Leather
Understandably, there are obvious deficiencies with corrected grain leather, despite your best efforts.
The grain confers most of the tensile strength to any particular hide.
Corrected grain leather comes from inferior hides with noticeable damage to the grain layer. These defects are buffed down and a thick layer of synthetic topcoat is applied to hide these defects. All these cause problems with the strength of leather.
The topcoat is also an occlusive layer that may partially prevent any creams you use, from moisturizing the leather as it should.
Eventually, this can give rise to cracking of the leather.
Also, the fact that it's been lying around in storage for awhile, probably means that the leather had already dried out somewhat by the time you bought it.

I have found what you have said about the topcoat being an occlusive layer to be particularly true, and I think this is a major contributor, along with the possibility of the shoe having been kept in storage for a while. Re the latter, seems like there's no way to avoid it - maybe avoid the major retailers like metro / OG / etc etc?

2) Fit
If the last doesn't suit you, in particular, if the vamp area is too voluminous for your foot. It would cause deep / excessive crease lines on the vamp that will eventually cause cracking with repeated wear. With deep creases, more dust and grit gets caught in the wrinkles, and as the leather flexes, causes more abrasion against grain, wearing it down. This could even be a problem in full grain leather if the shoes are not cared for properly.

Bottom line is to try and avoid corrected grain leather, and to pay attention to fit, in particular the instep and vamp volume.

Ah that makes good sense, thank you! Do asians generally have a lower vamp? I am on my second purchase of GYW shoes currently, and the retailer that I visited recommended a pair of shoes in 8.5 in their last - I understand the brand to be french - which got me quite surprised. I wear a 9 in both pairs in the first 'batch', one of which was the pictured one.

I think this need for more space came from the fact that I was previously mostly in sneakers and boat shoes (read: casuals), as well as bata's, before I got more interested. In these shoes it seems there is much, much more allowance for the shoes being a misfit by being bigger. I also have pretty broad feet with a low arch, and as such generally tend to get shoes which are slightly roomier.

Hope to get another chance to make a purchase soon, so that I can rotate my shoes. Intending to throw out / relegate this along with the other pair bought at the same time.

Don't worry too much, it's just shoes after all.

There's no metric to indicate how much crease is ok and how much is not. Wear it in good health and enjoy the shoes. That's what matters the most.

ah yes quote for truth! End of the day these are just lessons in the journey, methinks. We need to wear the shoes and not let them wear us!

 

[Lexyyy]

^ time for you to get some Loakes with "SCARY20"

 

[ralphlauren]

Where where? What site?

^ time for you to get some Loakes with "SCARY20"

 

[thundermarch]

Thanks @Thundermarch! I do like the look of the 804. I can get away with the width especially with thicker socks. The high instep is something I have to live with unless I go with your suggestion of the sock liner or size down a full size. Which I would have to ask Ryan to let me try 5.5.

In comparison I do prefer the 74945 as it fits me snug in 6.5UK with just about enough room at the toe box albeit with closed laces again.

Actually I would advise you to go with the last that fits you better.
"Correcting" suboptimal fits by sizing down / up too much or using tongue pads / sock liners, will always not be as ideal as going with the last that fits you better in the first place.
Both lasts look very nice.
And tbh, the 74945 is REALLY growing on me.... wearing it right this very minute.

 

[e3l1s5]

You and I have very similar feet and so I had a feeling the 804 in size 8 would fit you well. And indeed it did.
Off all the lasts I've ever tried, it fits me the best.
Good thing is, Lusso has most of their stock shoes in 804.

Yes, coupled with the competitive pricing at Lusso, tempted to make my next purchase a pair of Enzo in 804.

^ time for you to get some Loakes with "SCARY20"

robinsons shoes

 

[thundermarch]

I have found what you have said about the topcoat being an occlusive layer to be particularly true, and I think this is a major contributor, along with the possibility of the shoe having been kept in storage for a while. Re the latter, seems like there's no way to avoid it - maybe avoid the major retailers like metro / OG / etc etc?

Ah that makes good sense, thank you! Do asians generally have a lower vamp? I am on my second purchase of GYW shoes currently, and the retailer that I visited recommended a pair of shoes in 8.5 in their last - I understand the brand to be french - which got me quite surprised. I wear a 9 in both pairs in the first 'batch', one of which was the pictured one.

I think this need for more space came from the fact that I was previously mostly in sneakers and boat shoes (read: casuals), as well as bata's, before I got more interested. In these shoes it seems there is much, much more allowance for the shoes being a misfit by being bigger. I also have pretty broad feet with a low arch, and as such generally tend to get shoes which are slightly roomier.

With regards to avoiding shoes that have been stored too long.... there is really no way to go around the problem apart from NOT buying the shoes that look like it has been sitting around for awhile, or if the leather appears dry and lifeless.

We might not be able to change what the retailer does, or chooses to sell, but the important thing is making informed decisions as a consumer.

As for the second part of the question, the vamp actually refers to a part of the shoe, not your feet.
For an oxford, it refers to the area in between the captoe and the laces. For plain toe models or wholecuts, it refers to the same approximate area.
It is the area that flexes the most and undergoes the most stress, and is also, correspondingly, made with the "best cut" of leather. Or at least, it's supposed to be.
Try to picture your foot flexing within your shoe where your toes bend. The vamp sits directly above this area.
If there is too much volume in this area, you will be able to feel it immediately even before you walk.
It may also manifest as excessive creasing on the vamp after a few wears.

I think it's a little difficult to say as a whole, if Asians in general have wider / narrower feet or if they have a higher / lower instep. Have heard many different things. Josh (local shoemaker) feels that many Asians have wider feet, but at the same time, Enzo Bonafe, and even Meermin, have made narrow lasts to specifically cater to an Asian (Japanese) market. I have met many guys who have high insteps, and many who have pretty low insteps, all Singaporean.

Ultimately, you need to try on the shoes and wear them for a period to make a judgement on fit.

I notice that you are around the same foot size. If you are looking to buy / try on anything, you can drop by sometime. I'm an 8.5, most of the time.

 

[Lexyyy]

Where where? What site?

Yup Robinsons shoes!

 

[ralphlauren]

Ok. Hooting 1880 now!

Yup Robinsons shoes!

 

[RayeAng]

Hi friends, I have a query and would like to seek your advice please. In the picture attached is one of my first pairs of GYW shoes; these are Loake, corrected grain, and bought locally.

Despite my shoe care regime of cleaning and creaming + waxing, the side has cracked. I am aware that this cannot be resolved, but am curious to understand why in order to avoid it in future.

I note that this is also where my toes bend, and that instead of creasing, there is a very distinct fold line across, versus a crease you see in shoes which use better leather.

Could this be a function of the leather used? Perhaps because my shoes are (as I understand now) a bit bigger than I need? Or maybe that they've been kept in the local storage facility for a fairly long time before I bought them? I have also noticed that on the insides, there are 'hotspots' - parts where the lining has worn off, and these are similarly around the fold area.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated!

Also, pity to have missed TM's 'open house'. Would've been a big eye opener!

Sent from Xiaomi MI 3W using GAGT

You may want to get a shoe tree and let ur shoes rest for 1day BTW wear. Will help to elongate the life.