Will minimum wage laws work here?

[jeffrey745]

$800-1000 should be able to survive. You are talking about survival, not living in comfort.

This amt is possible for 1 person.

But cannot save much, buy the necessary insurance etc.

Ever wondered y comcare assistance wages is fixed at $1.9k?

 

[pureice]

hais....stick to the end goal: you wan to help poor and disadvantaged people. Does putting a wage floor really does that? the minimum wage has always been used as a political tool, for unions or political parties.

The reason statistics dont show a significant change in unemployment is due to the smaller group of people earning low income in the society. The real impact is on youth unemployment and also cost to biz - resulting in hiring lesser/selective hiring, longer hours or pushing the cost to the consumer. The people that felt the most impact will be the youths/old that have little education, work experience, even if they wan to supplement their family, they are unable to find employment first lower wages. Labour by itself is also subject to demand and supply laws. Thats why i dont buy a blanket MW bs by WP. Its just not so simple. People dont choose to be poor, is either thru circumstances, unlucky, lifestyle, disadvantage physically or mentally etc. As long as there is gene pool, there is IQ/skills distribution, diverse lifestyle, there will be a lower income group. Forcing your "good intentions" on people, doesnt mean it is really good.

Vietnam/myanmar/US/Aussie/China has minimum wage, but does their poor have a better quality of life? Who does it really benefit?

I am really glad the gov did not take a lazy approach to just implement a blanket wage floor, but instead go research actual industries which cannot keep up with wage increase due to labour intensive, low barrier of entry jobs.

The key aspect of helping the poor : giving them a roof, quality education, access to basic necessities(water, electricity, food) to have a acceptable quality of life. So then the next generation can be better off, with ability to select better jobs due to higher education level. There are already policies in place, cheap rental HDB, workfare, private charities with gov funding. Even the recent policy of single mum to have access to HDB is good!

Time is 1 big factor, you need to give people time to accumulate skills, education, assets, capital to move up the social ladder. Not just a law - everyone minimally earn 1.3k! It is just not tt simple.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-BGi4NIFww

https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/milt...onument-to-the-power-of-superficial-thinking/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84t4pTUDFGo

 

[cherry6]

hais....stick to the end goal: you wan to help poor and disadvantaged people. Does putting a wage floor really does that? the minimum wage has always been used as a political tool, for unions or political parties.

The reason statistics dont show a significant change in unemployment is due to the smaller group of people earning low income in the society. The real impact is on youth unemployment and also cost to biz - resulting in hiring lesser/selective hiring, longer hours or pushing the cost to the consumer. The people that felt the most impact will be the youths/old that have little education, work experience, even if they wan to supplement their family, they are unable to find employment first lower wages. Labour by itself is also subject to demand and supply laws. Thats why i dont buy a blanket MW bs by WP. Its just not so simple. People dont choose to be poor, is either thru circumstances, unlucky, lifestyle, disadvantage physically or mentally etc. As long as there is gene pool, there is IQ/skills distribution, diverse lifestyle, there will be a lower income group. Forcing your "good intentions" on people, doesnt mean it is really good.

Vietnam/myanmar/US/Aussie/China has minimum wage, but does their poor have a better quality of life? Who does it really benefit?

I am really glad the gov did not take a lazy approach to just implement a blanket wage floor, but instead go research actual industries which cannot keep up with wage increase due to labour intensive, low barrier of entry jobs.

The key aspect of helping the poor : giving them a roof, quality education, access to basic necessities(water, electricity, food) to have a acceptable quality of life. So then the next generation can be better off, with ability to select better jobs due to higher education level. There are already policies in place, cheap rental HDB, workfare, private charities with gov funding. Even the recent policy of single mum to have access to HDB is good!

Time is 1 big factor, you need to give people time to accumulate skills, education, assets, capital to move up the social ladder. Not just a law - everyone minimally earn 1.3k! It is just not tt simple.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-BGi4NIFww

https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/milt...onument-to-the-power-of-superficial-thinking/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84t4pTUDFGo

I agree that minimum wage is just easy fix (band aid) for a bigger problem (elephant in the room), which is unfair labor policies and practises of government.

Foreigner labor should be tightly and transparently regulated, not the loose way that MOM does now, which is also very very susceptible to corruption because the requirements are unclear. (Not few employers are also corrupt as is industry knowledge, where workers are complicit to elevate reported salaries to fool MOM, for companies to receive cashback to later save on corporate income tax and operate slush fund).


A COE like system is sorely needed to regulate foreign labor because yet, there are too many free loaders on the system, and for sure, Changi Airport group chairman Liew Mun Leong is certainly one of them, paying a very low maid levy but having his maid work in 2-3 properties at the same time. Many of his foreign talents in CAG also under pay in work levy payments, benifiting excessively from the spass and epass scheme, whilst his subcontractors who provide cleaning, security services suffer heavy work levy payments due to the relatively expensive work permit levy scheme.

***if Liew Mun Leong had hired his domestic help as a corporate would hire a dedicated house cleaner (as town council cleaners are hired), the work permit levy payable is much much higher. Essentially, Liew ML is free loading on the system, to hire foreign labour at a steep discount on a domestic helper work permit as compared to a commercial cleaner work permit when essentially the work is quite similar, if not more onerous for the domestic helper (poorly regulated by MOM thus the evil employer could make the maid work in 2-3 places as a commercially employed cleaner might be ordered to do).

 

[athulican]

You ownself never set the requirements.

You said the current lowest wage is $2 per hour from McDonald's. Is that true?

 

[Konnichiwa]

You said the current lowest wage is $2 per hour from McDonald's. Is that true?

$2 x 12hrs is $24
$24 x 5 days is $120
$120 x 4 weeks is $480..... ...

Confirm bullshiit...

 

[Renzokukenz]

$2 per hour from McDonald's.

i not participating in all the discussion in this thread

but please update yourself they no longer pay so poorly

 

[Wu-Han Clan]

min wage is 1 part of a solution that requires a bit more tweaks from other policies to really make it work together.... but on its own it can help sinkies quite a lot...

those arguing against min wage you can tell from their points are quite simple... you cannot think so simple by only looking at your plate of cai png... if you are price sensitive to cai png, means you are low ses... but that means you will also benefit the most from min wage....

your cai png wont double in price... if you pay $5 today... you can expect $7-8.... yes it will be more exp, but min wage will help the lower ses better afford the $7 cai png than when they were paying $5.

hawker asst earn average $10/hr today... if min wage go up 40% to $14 for example, just assume every operating cost also go up 40% since your supplier also go up 40%. to maintain abt the same margin.. your caipng must sell for 40% more also... so now become $7. we keep it simple, we increase everything by same percentage.

Spoiler

this is a dumbed down version of costing, those fresh grads want come quote their final year essay pls feel free to show us

min wage impact the most in the lower ses jobs.... your low ses sme and mnc included.... and it trickle upwards with lesser imapct...
at $14 min wage... fulltime hawkers asst, factory worker, lorry driver, blue collar jobs (8hr shift, mon-fri) alrdy earn $2.4k.... if count the normal 12hr shift 6 day week is over $4k.

that means your low-end office job cannot remain at $1.8-2k like 2nd world country if not who will work in the sme/mnc? whole salary scale for mid/high ses will also see minor adjustment with diminishing return.... if lower ses earns decent wages.. their consumption also go up... they can spend on things they couldnt before... money moves more around the economy...

fw are here to stay so while it is agreed fw will earn more with min wage... but so will sinkies....
the prob today is fw can afford to earn less so they lowball everyone and set this low benchmark for low ses wages... but only fw can survive on that because after remitting they can buy a palace... can low ses sinkies play the benchmark???

with min wage, it equalizes the bottom wage earners and fw lose that ability to lowball $1.2k just because it multiplies back home......
without min wage... only the low ses sinkies will continue to struggle to make ends meet..... and dont say they brought it upon themselves and pin it on reasons that reduces a human's worth...

 

[eAtNeAt]

Landlords are killing the country.

 

[RedEyesFan]

You said the current lowest wage is $2 per hour from McDonald's. Is that true?

You can clarify that youself.
Also, you still have not set the requirements.

 

[AcIenTz]

min wage is 1 part of a solution that requires a bit more tweaks from other policies to really make it work together.... but on its own it can help sinkies quite a lot...

those arguing against min wage you can tell from their points are quite simple... you cannot think so simple by only looking at your plate of cai png... if you are price sensitive to cai png, means you are low ses... but that means you will also benefit the most from min wage....

your cai png wont double in price... if you pay $5 today... you can expect $7-8.... yes it will be more exp, but min wage will help the lower ses better afford the $7 cai png than when they were paying $5.

hawker asst earn average $10/hr today... if min wage go up 40% to $14 for example, just assume every operating cost also go up 40% since your supplier also go up 40%. to maintain abt the same margin.. your caipng must sell for 40% more also... so now become $7. we keep it simple, we increase everything by same percentage.

Spoiler

this is a dumbed down version of costing, those fresh grads want come quote their final year essay pls feel free to show us

min wage impact the most in the lower ses jobs.... your low ses sme and mnc included.... and it trickle upwards with lesser imapct...
at $14 min wage... fulltime hawkers asst, factory worker, lorry driver, blue collar jobs (8hr shift, mon-fri) alrdy earn $2.4k.... if count the normal 12hr shift 6 day week is over $4k.

that means your low-end office job cannot remain at $1.8-2k like 2nd world country if not who will work in the sme/mnc? whole salary scale for mid/high ses will also see minor adjustment with diminishing return.... if lower ses earns decent wages.. their consumption also go up... they can spend on things they couldnt before... money moves more around the economy...

fw are here to stay so while it is agreed fw will earn more with min wage... but so will sinkies....
the prob today is fw can afford to earn less so they lowball everyone and set this low benchmark for low ses wages... but only fw can survive on that because after remitting they can buy a palace... can low ses sinkies play the benchmark???

with min wage, it equalizes the bottom wage earners and fw lose that ability to lowball $1.2k just because it multiplies back home......
without min wage... only the low ses sinkies will continue to struggle to make ends meet..... and dont say they brought it upon themselves and pin it on reasons that reduces a human's worth...

Good point to note, if everything increases by the same percentage, in absolute value the lowest wage sinkie will still benefit. Also pricing depends on the supply and demand factor also, if no demand seller increase price quoting min wage policy will back fire and bring their business into a worse shape

 

[Sai Baba]

We got no natural resources etc to support the this. Costs will go up as companies will be forced to pay workers a minimum wage per hour, everything will rise. Thoughts?

Chicken and egg.
All salaries and costs will rise together. You will be still in the same situation as before.

 

[Sai Baba]

What is the current lowest wage?

Parents always tell us to study hard when we are young. Now all grown up and can't earn more money, got regret or not ?
Who to blame for not study hard?
Government again ?

 

[fox1]

The reason there are no poor people in USA is because of minimum wage.

 

[2Dollar]

It's 1300 monthly salary for Singaporeans. Just pass it. Given food prices today, it is tough to imagine surviving below this amount

 

[Sai Baba]

The reason there are no poor people in USA is because of minimum wage.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...-job-layoffs-coronavirus-stimulus/5689859002/

 

[pattanispirit]

r u willing to pay maids & bangla construction workers min wages ?

first thing happened will be more women opt to be housewives, since no point earnings goes to paying maids since diff is not significant.

second, our housing prices will shoot above HK cuz HK got its own pool of low educated construction workers, we don't.

you always preach about buddihsm on edmw, and yet in this statement, you didnt show a shred of empathy for your fellow countrymen that are struggling to put food on the table...

hypocrisy at the extreme?

In Buddhism, everything is about Cause & Effect.

"implement min wage" is like planting a Cause, it will bring Effect.

this Effect of "min wage scheme" benefits minority, but bring suffering to majority, which opposed my empathy.

tell me which group of ppl "struggling to put food on the table" because not getting min wages ?

The low income cleaners, security guards have min wages which is made mandatory by MOM.

source : https://www.mom.gov.sg/employment-practices/progressive-wage-model/cleaning-sector

u r naive to think the sme bosses will suffer due to min wages.

all increase in cost will be transferred back to consumers.

the entire sg market is not too difficult to be manipulated, the prices r determined by handful of big boys, just like how they determine the price of kopi, tea at kpt, msian coach tickets prices, mlxg prices, common food prices, chye png prices, etc.

from $0.50 to $1.20 now, all increase tgt, consumers still have to pay, else, don't drink, but they still can survive, cuz sinkie can't tahan too long, they will still accept the new prices.

many biz owners have their own 工商联合会 Business Association which recommend their selling price for their members.



the biggest employer in sg now is the govt.

once, min wage implemented, housing cost, hosp cost, education cost, utility cost, etc will go up.

in the end, GST, income tax, ppty tax, electricity/water bills, etc, etc will go up, it become vicious cycle.

on the sme side, some co will close and import from cheaper location like jb, many micro biz w low profit margin product, will go bust first, eg yr roti, bean curd, traditional kway, cakes, etc.

slower, the hawkers will be gone as well, end up like angmo countries, u have to eat McD or Pizza everyday.

If wages go up, then the industry will adopt labor saving measures for those processes which are labor intensive that is all. This will lead to jobs which are lowly skilled like the bangala construction workers you mentioned being transformed into skilled jobs which then might even be attractive to Singaporeans. Even if not, it would mean less foreign workers would be needed. US construction workers are being paid an average of USD15 and you don't see their property prices being higher than SG. And HK construction workers salaries are an average of HK$119 per hour.

As for maids, many families have working couples with no maid. No maid does not mean wives need to be housewives in most cases. Many cases, you have full time housewives... with maids.

US, HK got its own pool of low educated construction workers, we don't.

Our population don't even have enough ppl to work in chye png stalls, serve NS (our camps & JC getting smaller/lesser year by year),

my calculation did sometime back is we can produce about 30k youth each year, but our construction sector need at least 300k workers, which means if 100% youngster go into construction sector, we need 10 yrs to fill up the gap, if no one quit midway.

if one day, our houses r printed from 3D printer, probably we can reduce the number of construction workers.


about maid, we still need them to take care of the old & disabled.

this probably exceed those that take care of young children, as we r becoming an aging society.

if maid salary is almost same as our working mother, the burden onto our small family will be even greater.

2 working adult need to feed parent of both sides (4 old) + children (2 young) + maid

if maid salary = wife salary, meaning the hubby's salary must able to support 6 pax.

Our lower skilled prices already driven up by FDW and FWL. $300 for first maid, $450 for second.

FWL for construction is $300 to $950 monthly depending on the experience and tier.

Maids already have min wage and it depends on the work experience and nationality.

We already pay for these, you not aware?

so, adding min wages, will put even greater pressure on working adult & family.

 

[Rokusaburo]

aiya if they have minimum wage for all jobs and all education types with no cap in work hours then its fine la.

 

[Supporter]

got option for min wage for sinkies, no to fts?

 

[cherry6]

got option for min wage for sinkies, no to fts?

Hi Supporter,
Don't think you can discriminate or it will breed resentment amongst foreigners working here.

As it is, gahmen is able to apply min wage to cleaners, security, Gardeners albeit on a small scale and premise it on gahmen spensored trainings which foreigners do not receive and are thus disadvantaged but gahmen can avoid complaint because it is only implemented on a selective and isolated manner.

But if expanded, then very very hard to justify Foreigners being excluded.

Otherwise, tit for tat, many Singaporeans abroad will be ostracised for the bing Singaporean.

 

[jeffrey745]