Only 32,000 take home less than WP's proposed $1,300 minimum wage

[cutekawaii]

It is an irony to deny them to live and yet claim our society is caring.

so these 32k people doesnt deserve the minimum wage?

Sent from my air hole using GAGT

 

[sunzoner]

It's high time bosses look into making more meaningful and upskilling jobs. Else it will forever be a run to the bottom.

None of the bosses will do anything unless forced to. Why abandon a tried and proven way of earning money esp when the law allows for it?

PAP had once tried to do something. For example, Indonesia–Malaysia–Singapore Growth Triangle was a way PAP tried to solve the problem. Aka force employers to upskill the workforce, move low skilled manufacturing to our neighbors and bring in high skilled jobs. The high skilled jobs are very much wanted all over the world and countries are in a (grant) bidding war to attract the businesses.

But, PAP was unable to pull in the high skilled jobs (at that time) nor was it able to upgrade the existing workforce (of the time).

At this point, I will bring in PAP education which have failed Singapore as Singaporeans are trained to vomit knowledge but are unable to innovate (all young innovators are discouraged by model answers). Without the ability to innovate, we have no inventions and is a follower in job creation.

Plus, the Government had a high degree of control in the economy through the GLC, TLC, and SLF-Linked companies. It had relied on these government companies and MNCs to "build-up" the economy. With Government crowding out locals, there is no room for Singaporeans to innovate and do business. An example is the NTUC and the 1st bubble tea craze. Are you old enough to remember the first buddle tea craze and NTUC's entry into that market?

So... IMHO, the problem of low wage workers can be traced to policies made by PAP and is tied up with too many other things. It is hard to resolve and there is no political will to resolve it.

Of course, this problem is faced globally by all countries, nobody have a real way to solve it. PAP which pride itself as the best and most capable Government in the world, have to solve it or risk looking to be overpaid and greedy idiots.

 

[sunzoner]

Don’t know what’s your point...
It worked lor....
wages gone up... beyond the so called mini wages...
And now you all still wanna sing the song of min wages...

But PAP is not proposing to impose it to up the wages of the 32,000, right? So why this bulls from you? Oh wait, because defender needs to defend, right?

 

[matchy]

that is not alot~~~~~~~

 

[tokiya]

This is what I don't understand about people rejecting min wage, and claiming PWM and Workfare works better.

They think PWM and Workfare money drop from sky? Taxpayers pay for the exploit of low wage workers by greedy SMEs and corporates.

Min wage forces the employer to borne the cost of hiring while PWM and Workfare forces taxpayers to pay the difference and allow private corporates to continue earning unscrupulous profits.

Workfare is using taxpayers' money to pay for the problems caused by low wage exploiters while said exploiters pay no additional taxes; totally privatizing profits, socializing the cost and not budget neutral.

 

[Sinkie]

This is what I don't understand about people rejecting min wage, and claiming PWM and Workfare works better.

They think PWM and Workfare money drop from sky? Taxpayers pay for the exploit of low wage workers by greedy SMEs and corporates.

Min wage forces the employer to borne the cost of hiring while PWM and Workfare forces taxpayers to pay the difference and allow private corporates to continue earning unscrupulous profits.

And retailer like you and me will bear the difference and inflation of the good and service these employer provide?

 

[tokiya]

And retailer like you and me will bear the difference and inflation of the good and service these employer provide?

Why not? You think everything will become more expensive because of min wage?

Employers who are more efficient in using their employees can continue to maintain prices and rely on technology to improve productivity.

Or you rather taxpayers pay for pwm and allow business owners to continue making profit by hiring at below living wage levels?

 

[Sinkie]

Why not? You think everything will become more expensive because of min wage?

Employers who are more efficient in using their employees can continue to maintain prices and rely on technology to improve productivity.

Yes, better to pay to invest on technology to increase productivity and maybe also fully eliminate the needs for these low wage worker at all

 

[tmster]

Low wage isn't the only issue, the killer is the high cost of living.

 

[Mecisteus]

Min wage forces the employer to borne the cost of hiring while PWM and Workfare forces taxpayers to pay the difference and allow private corporates to continue earning unscrupulous profits.

Then what will employers do to maintain the same profit margin?

Every policy has its own pros and cons.

 

[tokiya]

Then what will employers do to maintain the same profit margin?

Every policy has its own pros and cons.

If their profit margin is earned from paying their employees below min wage levels they deserve to get their margins cut.

Taxpayers don't need to pay for the difference for them to earn supernormal profits.

 

[Sinkie]

If their profit margin is earned from paying their employees below min wage levels they deserve to get their margins cut.

Taxpayers don't need to pay for the difference for them to earn supernormal profits.

But those who earn more will pay more tax, isn’t it better this way taxpayer also bear a portion of the workfare scheme? These employer who you say are exploiting low wage worker pay tax too, and also corporate tax as well

End of the day, the low wage worker still get their wage and has their job, if the wage is not enough, then the low wage worker can find 2 or even 3 jobs

 

[pureice]

None of the bosses will do anything unless forced to. Why abandon a tried and proven way of earning money esp when the law allows for it?

PAP had once tried to do something. For example, Indonesia–Malaysia–Singapore Growth Triangle was a way PAP tried to solve the problem. Aka force employers to upskill the workforce, move low skilled manufacturing to our neighbors and bring in high skilled jobs. The high skilled jobs are very much wanted all over the world and countries are in a (grant) bidding war to attract the businesses.

But, PAP was unable to pull in the high skilled jobs (at that time) nor was it able to upgrade the existing workforce (of the time).

At this point, I will bring in PAP education which have failed Singapore as Singaporeans are trained to vomit knowledge but are unable to innovate (all young innovators are discouraged by model answers). Without the ability to innovate, we have no inventions and is a follower in job creation.

Plus, the Government had a high degree of control in the economy through the GLC, TLC, and SLF-Linked companies. It had relied on these government companies and MNCs to "build-up" the economy. With Government crowding out locals, there is no room for Singaporeans to innovate and do business. An example is the NTUC and the 1st bubble tea craze. Are you old enough to remember the first buddle tea craze and NTUC's entry into that market?

So... IMHO, the problem of low wage workers can be traced to policies made by PAP and is tied up with too many other things. It is hard to resolve and there is no political will to resolve it.

Of course, this problem is faced globally by all countries, nobody have a real way to solve it. PAP which pride itself as the best and most capable Government in the world, have to solve it or risk looking to be overpaid and greedy idiots.

hais...theres a lot of confirmation bias here...but is ok, i know you feel that PAP has failed you, or singaporeans, or there can be a better future. No problem~ I just wan to say, PAP didnt cause low wage workers, There will always be normal distribution of wages, spectrum of poor and rich.

SMEs constitute a large part of any economic models, including ours, and hire a large part of normal people like you and me. A labour market - is a matching of skill set, Demand and supply of companies. A boss / employer doesnt seek out to exploit workers, they seek to maximise profits, at least in Sg context, an employee has a conscious mind to accept a job at a pay. If you dont like the pay, you can change job to another one that matches your salary expectation. That is why we need to chase GDP to set up more biz and companies, to enable more demand for labour in the market.

PAP, sets the ground work infrastructure for biz to set up here, with lower tax, good educated local pool, and relevant education. The competition is on a global level, with the increase in talent pool / infrastructure from our neighbours. We are NOT living in an enclave, with only ourselves. Our limitations are real, our talent pool is so limited and with no natural resources. We do have innovation, and lots of start up, but really, the talent pool in this area is low, due to our small population.

PAP is not god or an all knowing, there are definately trade-offs and gaps in their policies making. The way forward for SG is not to subscribe to these populist leftist ideals, or thinking we made it, we are there attitude, so why cant we be like the west?

Our limitations is forever here, make a conscious decision to implement policies that gives us more option. PAP definately need a revamp and refinement, hope LHL retire, and allow a new gen to take lead. IF PAP cannot make it, WP's direction now is even worst off.

For pay justification - i can only say, the worst part is for the army/civil personnel, for private sector talents, it really is comparable. There should be more banding and also a hard KPIs to be publicised according to the ministry. PAP need to try their own product, like skills future, digitisation, mycareershub, labour market discrimination by hiring agencies. They seem to be out of touch and wasteful.

If WP fight on gaps in PAp policies, no problem, but dont make poor policies on basis of helping the poor. ANd lastly, dont keep saying the education system fail, the education system is adapting and changing per employment requirement, you can say is slow or reactive, but it doesnt fail. Why? because unemployment is low, very low at global standards. Of course, then you will say, there is grab, insurance agent, RMs etc. These people make conscious decision to enter a trade or an honest living. No one force them, if there really is a forced decision for a sector, you will encounter a serious wage deflation in that sector.

 

[Mecisteus]

If their profit margin is earned from paying their employees below min wage levels they deserve to get their margins cut.

Taxpayers don't need to pay for the difference for them to earn supernormal profits.

Low income earners don't need to pay taxes. Middle income pay taxes.

Without MW, costs of living is lower and low income earners earn less.

With MW, low income earners earn higher but businessmen raise price of goods, thus leading to higher costs of living. Less taxes losses but costs of living higher for the majority.

With MW, low income earners have no motivation to work harder. They will just rely on MW.

 

[cutekawaii]

With MW, businesses will scale up and employ better workers, gone are the days racing to the bottom. Its now productivity and creativity. Low waged Singaporeans will have to adapt to the salary, businesses are forced to abandon mass foreign cheap labour.

No matter how much we train our workers, without good jobs, workers will not be picking them. They rather do skillless jobs like drive grab which fetches more.

Low income earners don't need to pay taxes. Middle income pay taxes.

Without MW, costs of living is lower but income is lower also for low income earners.

With MW, low income earners earn higher but businessmen raise price of goods, thus leading to higher costs of living. Less taxes losses but costs of living higher for the majority.

With MW, low income earners have no motivation to work harder. They will just rely on MW.

 

[JiEx]

Sinkies so hiam, will not take up 1300 job la. Just implement la..

 

[Sinkie]

Sinkies so hiam, will not take up 1300 job la. Just implement la..

There are still really very old and low skilled sinkies who earns less than $1300 in blue collar jobs. These are the jobs bbfa will hiam, but these low-skilled uneducated old ppl has to do in order to bring money back

 

[Bam25th]

Let’s discuss with illustration:
With minimum wage, a worker earning $1000 will now earn $1300 -> 30% increase.

Due to cost of living increase, food, clothing, etc increase by 20%.
However, not all his expenses are derived from items dependent on low-wage manpower that became more expensive.
As such, instead of spending $900 monthly on expenses such as food and bills, he spent $1000.

Net effect, this low wage worker now have $300 disposable income rather than the previous $100.

Using the concept of the above hypothetical illustration, a minimum wage will very likely give a low-wage worker higher disposable income, thereby improving his standard of living.

To make the argument that people should work more jobs/more hours, are just devious. People are not machines, we cannot just “on” for more hours. Rather, we should strive towards helping those with lower standard of living achieve a better one, with more disposable income, so that they can live a better life.

 

[qwerty_hippo]

Low income earners don't need to pay taxes. Middle income pay taxes.

Without MW, costs of living is lower and low income earners earn less.

With MW, low income earners earn higher but businessmen raise price of goods, thus leading to higher costs of living. Less taxes losses but costs of living higher for the majority.

With MW, low income earners have no motivation to work harder. They will just rely on MW.

Without MW, cost of living is already increasing with stagnant salary.

 

[Mecisteus]

Let’s discuss with illustration:
With minimum wage, a worker earning $1000 will now earn $1300 -> 30% increase.

You don't think there is a possibility of lower disposable income with MW for low income earners?