Only 32,000 take home less than WP's proposed $1,300 minimum wage

[Apex01]

Yes is true I agree, some jobs cannot be upgrade like you said. Hence pmw has a certification, resulting in barriers of entry.

Why I say MW is bad, is because it's a blunt tool, and it's mechanism is for the purpose of discrimination. If the objective is to lift poverty, you need to let peps be employed first and gain skills or savings , then they can accumulate capital.

We have to view this as a live and dynamic thing, not a static 1 dimensional model.

You know PAP is in power for over 50 years. Let's say from 1990 to 2020 they have been fine tuning wages for low income workers.

So why until now there is continued wage suppression and exploitation of weakest workers?

Cos this govt is an accomplice with business owners to maintain a huge number of low wage workers.

 

[Konnichiwa]

U very selfish.

Sent from Xiaomi REDMI NOTE 8 using GAGT

No true lah... I proposed $15,000 per month minimum wages lah
Come on I am 10x times more caring and compassionate than WP MP

 

[pureice]

theres is some advantages to MW

since it is a blunt tool, it automatically remove jobs which are low productivity. bosses will have to restructure work scope and cannot just rely on cheap labour

also, part of what MW does in the short term is to transfer some of the profits back to the workers rather than to the land owners and businesses owners

has anyone complained about the cost being passed to consumers when the rent keeps increasing and bosses buying new properties and cars?

Those low productivity jobs are exactly what unskilled and low income people needs to first gain some income and skills. There is no robber baron here...the rich and poor gap exist because of multi variate reasons...hais...

Isnt it easier to just implement a mw straight than a pmw? Sometimes some policies affect real people livelihood and lives. Not a copy and paste model.

 

[Senna Wales]

Can we exclude employers cpf when talking about $1300/mth

Nobody is asking why the government is spending taxpayer money to top up worker salaries with WIS instead of forcing employers to pay up that extra money. That should save the taxpayers a lot of money no?

Also, isn't that topping up with WIS the same as acknowledging an ersatz minimum wage?

Adding in "CPF contribution" makes no sense when the argument is "take home" salary.

 

[Sinkie]

Nobody is asking why the government is spending taxpayer money to top up worker salaries with WIS instead of forcing employers to pay up that extra money. That should save the taxpayers a lot of money no?

Also, isn't that topping up with WIS the same as acknowledging an ersatz minimum wage?

Adding in "CPF contribution" makes no sense when the argument is "take home" salary.

Employer also pay corporate and individual tax, rich people pay more tax too

 

[pureice]

You know PAP is on power for over 50 years. Let's say from 1990 to 2020 they have been fine tuning wages for low income.

So why until now there is continued wage suppression and exploitation for the weakest workers?

Hais, in current sg,there is no wage suppression or slave market, the market works as it supposed to be. What we are seeing now is a cumulative impact of choices and decisions made earlier, the society progess and economy changes. More competitive, more demand for talent, more niche the skills more you will pay for. Labour characteristics is like a product, If barriers of entry is low, similar to a inferior product, it will be cheaper. More demand for that labour will drive up cost. It is a rebalancing act. The issue is, the time factor, that's why the help from gov come in.

I don't really care about the party branding, but rather the focus of their policies that affect lives and sustainability of such choices. PAP definitely need a revamp, seems to be getting wasteful and also they need to try their "product". WP on the other hand......seems going more and more left.

 

[matrix05]

No true lah... I proposed $15,000 per month minimum wages lah
Come on I am 10x times more caring and compassionate than WP MP

Looks like you may have a monopoly on compassion. Anw, 32K is the most impt number, use to measure Jamus performance. If 12 mth later, 15K, half of 32K, remains below $1.3K salary, then he is exceptional. If increase over 32K, then bring brother NCM back.

 

[pureice]

This article provides some insights on the limitations and real world effectiveness of PWM.

https://www.ricemedia.co/current-affairs-features-progressive-wage-model-security-guards/

PWM may have its limitations on these lowest income folks, and a blunt tool like MW as you put it, might be the better solution to help them.

CNA also had some videos on the poor of Singapore. Good to watch and understand. They are living in a different world and dealing with a different set of circumstances compared to most of us.

Yes! I read this and also if I have the choice I would abolished this PMW and let free markets take place. Because I would reduce the barriers of entry for "cleaning/security" business, rather than increase. On the other hand, restrict the labour pool via shorten workpass timing. But I think the gov don't have the patience for that to happen.

Yes CNA shows the Jamil puthu documentary, as well as tharmans speech in 2014 on the growing income gap at LSE.

This is a real problem of growing income gap, like so many societies and revolution before us. If you are interested, you can see socialist Economist Thomas pikety documentary " capital in the 21st century".

 

[Senna Wales]

Employer also pay corporate and individual tax, rich people pay more tax too

Pay more is big deal ah? It's merely good luck that anyone gets rich, whether to be lucky enough to be born into a rich family, or to be at the right place at the right time. The story of rags to riches is so rare that each one has to be documented and broadcasted like something special, but ultimately statistically insignificant.

Then when businesses got problem cry to government to save them, wasting the country billions of dollars (this year alone). If they're so satki, why ask for help?

 

[Dreamblaster]

Dr Koh had cited the figure to explain that a minimum wage was not necessary. He said the Government's policies, particularly the progressive wage model (PWM) and Workfare Income Supplement, already ensure the majority of low-wage workers take home more than $1,300 a month.

Among the 850,000 workers in occupations traditionally deemed lower income, such as clerical support and service staff and tradesmen, about 100,000 earn below $1,300, figures from the Ministry of Manpower show.

After taking into account Workfare wage top-ups and employers' Central Provident Fund contribution, about 56,000 earn less than $1,300. Of these, about 32,000 are full-time employees, or 1.7 per cent of the workforce, a "very small number", said Dr Koh.

The aunty working in my co earns $1,500 gross and after CPF about $1,300. With this pay, she got $76 from workfare. So total less than $1,400 every month. Another aunty doing more dirty work like cleaning gets $1,300 gross. Go do the Maths how big the workfare helps. Every day they complain about being paid so less for their hard work but said ching cai cos children big already and they work to pass time.

 

[RedEyesFan]

Workfare is using taxpayers' money to pay for the problems caused by low wage exploiters while said exploiters pay no additional taxes; totally privatizing profits, socializing the cost and not budget neutral.

 

[icansing]

If only 32k why so hesistant to impose? I smell bull

 

[Apex01]

Hais, in current sg,there is no wage suppression or slave market, the market works as it supposed to be. What we are seeing now is a cumulative impact of choices and decisions made earlier, the society progess and economy changes. More competitive, more demand for talent, more niche the skills more you will pay for. Labour characteristics is like a product, If barriers of entry is low, similar to a inferior product, it will be cheaper. More demand for that labour will drive up cost. It is a rebalancing act. The issue is, the time factor, that's why the help from gov come in.

I don't really care about the party branding, but rather the focus of their policies that affect lives and sustainability of such choices. PAP definitely need a revamp, seems to be getting wasteful and also they need to try their "product". WP on the other hand......seems going more and more left.

I believe there is wage suppression and exploitation.

Do you know which type of workers have to work 6 full days per week?

 

[walterwu]

If only 32k why so hesistant to impose? I smell bull

Gov should give breakdown of the 32,000 on their wage range from $1 to $1,299.

If, say, all are $1,299 then setting MW to $1,300 is not a problem at all.

If, say, vast majority is less than $500, then MW is going to be a problem for their bosses.

In all ways, Union is not into it. If they been collecting union fees from these very poor people and these workers are earning so low, they may have failed these workers.

 

[sunzoner]

So when you can't argue logically, you resort to calling names ? Lmao.

What a retard.

So when you can't argue logically, you resort to calling names ? Lmao.

What a retard.

 

[sizzy6]

when business hear ANY policy that will make them pay more .. they will kpkb

say maybe cannot make it .. have to close down .. etc etc .. hear until sian

if you look around .. sinkie companies are like pampered and spoilt kids .. little bit little bit then say .. we need government help, government grant .. this and that ..

in other countries .. they will just think of how to pivot, change, or if really cannot then close .. its just part of doing business .. where got guaranteed profits ?

that is why very few sinkie companies make it big .. because they cannot survive without government help .. and government can only help them so much in sg..

look at all the SME .. only few types

1. depend on government tender/contract to
2. family business
3. very traditional business trade that depend on regulars only

no innovation .. dont shake the boat, dont invest in new stuff .. they are happy to just milk whatever they can from the current business .. if times are bad just ask gov for help to supplement them ..

generally .. if your business need money or cashflow .. you take a loan .. or u find investor .. sinkie companies is ask government to give handouts .. joke businessman .. thats why i hate to do business with sinkie companies .. charge high high .. can chop just chop .. dont offer anything in return

 

[qwerty_hippo]

Workfare is using taxpayers' money to pay for the problems caused by low wage exploiters while said exploiters pay no additional taxes; totally privatizing profits, socializing the cost and not budget neutral.

Winning comment.

Business owners rather pay less and use ah gong money to pay for the shortfall.

End up still taxpayer pay for it.

 

[eskimopalm]

Out of 32k in the mentioned, I bet most of them dun want to be higher earners, or they can’t qualify in govt support schemes.

 

[sunzoner]

Yes is true I agree, some jobs cannot be upgrade like you said. Hence pmw has a certification, resulting in barriers of entry.

Why I say MW is bad, is because it's a blunt tool, and it's mechanism is for the purpose of discrimination. If the objective is to lift poverty, you need to let peps be employed first and gain skills or savings , then they can accumulate capital.

We have to view this as a live and dynamic thing, not a static 1 dimensional model.

Some jobs just doesnt help you to gain skills or savings.

For example, hawker store assistant work long hours and draws little pay. It is physically demanding and tends to attract those without much formal education.

How would these people be able to go for upgrading when the majority of the time are spent in their work place? How could they accumulate saving when their pay is low in the first place?

So a solution has to be found to help lift them up, right?

It used to be HDB sell flats at low cost, then people can flip their flat to earn money which could be used for upgrading. But HDB has lost this purpose now due to its high price and policies.

Then, it used to be CPF can be used as a tool so that these people can retire with a substantial saving. But, after HDB price increase, and after CPF life/and all the compulsory plans, many are looking at no relief using their CPF.

It used to be that investing in their kids, getting a degree is a good investment. But now, there are lots of graduates not holding PMET jobs.

So you see, a lot have happened and it is mainly driven by policies of the Government.

What about progressive wage model (PWN)? It functioned like the min wage, but ties the wage increase to skills and certification. It is good, right? Well...

The 32,000 do not benefit. So the best way for Government to solve this problem is to implement PWN in these sectors if they are of the opinion that PWN > Min Wage. But why Government is not doing anything? If PWN cannot help, then what do the Government propose? Based on what I have seen so far, they proposed ... Nothing...

Is this acceptable?

 

[popimac]

so these 32k people doesnt deserve the minimum wage?

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