Roboadvisor: Stashaway vs Syfe

[endlssorrow]

Syfe returns higher than SA so far ,

For those who is interested

 

[PongRareRare]

If I only intend to invest $500 a month, is it better to put $500 in either stashaway or Syfe or $250 each?

 

[twosix]

If I only intend to invest $500 a month, is it better to put $500 in either stashaway or Syfe or $250 each?

i'd recommend to spread out to be safe, but returns won't be the highest nor the lowest.

 

[PongRareRare]

i'd recommend to spread out to be safe, but returns won't be the highest nor the lowest.

Ok thanks!

 

[silverbomb]

been seeing so much good syfe returns post. i see alr then makes me seems like i'm the only few that has been seeing loss in Syfe since march 2020. loss was reduced (picked up) from april onwards, but stagnantly since between -6 to -8%. total re-optimised 6 times since april 2020.

all the other robos alr back to positives for those that i have placed funds prior to march 2020

 

[tutonic]

been seeing so much good syfe returns post. i see alr then makes me seems like i'm the only few that has been seeing loss in Syfe since march 2020. loss was reduced (picked up) from april onwards, but stagnantly since between -6 to -8%. total re-optimised 6 times since april 2020.

all the other robos alr back to positives for those that i have placed funds prior to march 2020

Those Syfe returns are referring to the Syfe Equity 100 portfolio. Their ARI portfolio a lot of questionable rebalancing timings that ended up losing money for a fair number of people. If you got the time, you can dig up the threads from the March - June 2020 period.

If you want to stick with Syfe, I think Equity 100 is the better product if you're looking at something long term. However, you can also consider switching to Stashaway's 36% portfolio. I'm pleased with my returns so far (started Nov 2019). Time-weighted returns currently at 31.13%

 

[Shutterfly]

been seeing so much good syfe returns post. i see alr then makes me seems like i'm the only few that has been seeing loss in Syfe since march 2020. loss was reduced (picked up) from april onwards, but stagnantly since between -6 to -8%. total re-optimised 6 times since april 2020.

all the other robos alr back to positives for those that i have placed funds prior to march 2020

Did you DCA or just put one lump sum last year?

 

[silverbomb]

Those Syfe returns are referring to the Syfe Equity 100 portfolio. Their ARI portfolio a lot of questionable rebalancing timings that ended up losing money for a fair number of people. If you got the time, you can dig up the threads from the March - June 2020 period.

If you want to stick with Syfe, I think Equity 100 is the better product if you're looking at something long term. However, you can also consider switching to Stashaway's 36% portfolio. I'm pleased with my returns so far (started Nov 2019). Time-weighted returns currently at 31.13%

I'm alr on Stashaway.

When I first used Syfe the returns were exponential up to even close to 20% before the march sell-off. Somehow makes me think ARI is not pandemic back tested.

So while I'm just created SA a few months ago, it reminds me of my SYFE journey so I don't wish to see the same kind. I given Syfe some benefit of doubt for many mths but still seeing the hovering results.

 

[silverbomb]

Did you DCA or just put one lump sum last year?

2 x lump sum.

 

[dappermen]

Syfe returns higher than SA so far

i think this may not be conclusive enough as it really dpends on when u started investing and did u DCA/ RSP

 

[s0crates]

How do we judge that the ARI portfolios have made questionable "rebalances"? Just because returns were poor in historically the fastest stock market recovery ever seen?

Not that I am sympathetic to syfe team, or stashaway one for that manner. These guys are active investors, and they make a market call every time they decide to increase gold holdings, increase bond holdings, add in something high cost/risk like KWEB.

They are active investors, and they might have properly positioned the portfolio but luck wasn't on their side despite the favourable odds. Or they might positioned their portfolio poorly and yet by dumb luck managed to outperform .

So how do we decide on whether this actively managed robos are worthy to invest through? When they consistently outperform a passively managed, globally diversified portfolio nett of all fees (FX, taxes and their 1% cash holdings lol)

Otherwise, better use a passively managed robo and just pay for convenience, or even better just buy VWRA on IBKR. At least we would know what we are investing in without someone actively meddling for outperformance.

Those Syfe returns are referring to the Syfe Equity 100 portfolio. Their ARI portfolio a lot of questionable rebalancing timings that ended up losing money for a fair number of people. If you got the time, you can dig up the threads from the March - June 2020 period.

If you want to stick with Syfe, I think Equity 100 is the better product if you're looking at something long term. However, you can also consider switching to Stashaway's 36% portfolio. I'm pleased with my returns so far (started Nov 2019). Time-weighted returns currently at 31.13%

 

[tutonic]

How do we judge that the ARI portfolios have made questionable "rebalances"? Just because returns were poor in historically the fastest stock market recovery ever seen?

Not that I am sympathetic to syfe team, or stashaway one for that manner. These guys are active investors, and they make a market call every time they decide to increase gold holdings, increase bond holdings, add in something high cost/risk like KWEB.

They are active investors, and they might have properly positioned the portfolio but luck wasn't on their side despite the favourable odds. Or they might positioned their portfolio poorly and yet by dumb luck managed to outperform .

So how do we decide on whether this actively managed robos are worthy to invest through? When they consistently outperform a passively managed, globally diversified portfolio nett of all fees (FX, taxes and their 1% cash holdings lol)

Otherwise, better use a passively managed robo and just pay for convenience, or even better just buy VWRA on IBKR. At least we would know what we are investing in without someone actively meddling for outperformance.

It is exactly that. You can't determine whether the rebalancing will be beneficial or not during the actual dip, but given that markets have more or less recovered a year later, we can say definitively that the decisions Syfe made were sub-optimal on hindsight. That's a fact, just by looking at the returns. It could very well be luck, but the numbers don't lie. Syfe made a bad call when it came to rebalancing during last year's dip. That's probably why they came out with Equity 100 in July last year, since the initial Equity 100 promo material explicitly mentioned their fixed allocation. Same thing with them coming up with the 100% REIT portfolio after their Managed REIT one debuted. Just based on these alone, you can already tell that a fair number of people don't like Syfe's rebalancing technique. Of course, it's most likely the case that only 5% of people don't like, but they are the most vocal and therefore push Syfe to come up with the fixed allocation version of their existing portfolios.

Yes, that's why I mentioned that when most people talk about the good Syfe returns, they're referring to the Equity 100 portfolio, since that is a fixed-composition equity portfolio, which is a passively managed robo that you're paying for convenience.

IBKR is a bad idea for people with low portfolio value because of the maintenance fee. The better comparison would be FMSOne's RSP, since no platform fee, and only 0.08% (or 1USD min) buying fee. They have un-discounted selling fee, but that's not relevant for people who are saving and not actively trading.

 

[s0crates]

Syfe equity 100 is not passively managed. They tilted it according to their own take on smart beta, and have the discretion to change their tilts if they so believe that the current tilts are not the best exposure their clients should have.

It is exactly that. You can't determine whether the rebalancing will be beneficial or not during the actual dip, but given that markets have more or less recovered a year later, we can say definitively that the decisions Syfe made were sub-optimal on hindsight. That's a fact, just by looking at the returns. It could very well be luck, but the numbers don't lie. Syfe made a bad call when it came to rebalancing during last year's dip. That's probably why they came out with Equity 100 in July last year, since the initial Equity 100 promo material explicitly mentioned their fixed allocation. Same thing with them coming up with the 100% REIT portfolio after their Managed REIT one debuted. Just based on these alone, you can already tell that a fair number of people don't like Syfe's rebalancing technique. Of course, it's most likely the case that only 5% of people don't like, but they are the most vocal and therefore push Syfe to come up with the fixed allocation version of their existing portfolios.

Yes, that's why I mentioned that when most people talk about the good Syfe returns, they're referring to the Equity 100 portfolio, since that is a fixed-composition equity portfolio, which is a passively managed robo that you're paying for convenience.

IBKR is a bad idea for people with low portfolio value because of the maintenance fee. The better comparison would be FMSOne's RSP, since no platform fee, and only 0.08% (or 1USD min) buying fee. They have un-discounted selling fee, but that's not relevant for people who are saving and not actively trading.

 

[tutonic]

Syfe equity 100 is not passively managed. They tilted it according to their own take on smart beta, and have the discretion to change their tilts if they so believe that the current tilts are not the best exposure their clients should have.

This is lifted from their FAQ at the bottom of the Equity 100 Page.

The Equity100 portfolio does not focus on portfolio risk management or asset diversification. Instead, it is 100% invested in equities and designed to optimize the potential for higher risk-adjusted returns but keeping a complete allocation to equities.

I initially interpreted this as them not changing the composition, but I think you might be right. The only thing unchanged is that it'll always be 100% equity, but they might tweak the composition when they feel necessary. Nonetheless, I think it's still a good product for people with small monthly contributions.

 

[Shutterfly]

2 x lump sum.

Timing is very important for volatile portfolio especially for short term returns.

 

[mistersatki_]

Anyone can pm stash refer ?

 

[dappermen]

Anyone can pm stash refer ?

Pm u le........

 

[mistersatki_]

Thanks all.
Have signed up for syfe reit+ 5k lump plus 200monthly

Also thinking of 10k stash 36% plus 300monthly

Any other good options ?

I got about 50k in sg bond , 100k endowment & insurance
Never play stocks as no time go monitor

 

[dappermen]

Thanks all.
Have signed up for syfe reit+ 5k lump plus 200monthly

Also thinking of 10k stash 36% plus 300monthly

Any other good options ?

I got about 50k in sg bond , 100k endowment & insurance
Never play stocks as no time go monitor

Why more in stash although 36% is not a bad choice? Can consider syfe’s 100equity too, if your risk appetite is there
Syfe reits is afterall all abt sg’s mkt, even though we r moving byond phase3 (covid) still i wonder how much potential can it grow- unless you r a dividend lover just like my parents??! https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/132644319-post419.html

 

[tutonic]

Thanks all.
Have signed up for syfe reit+ 5k lump plus 200monthly

Also thinking of 10k stash 36% plus 300monthly

Any other good options ?

I got about 50k in sg bond , 100k endowment & insurance
Never play stocks as no time go monitor

Make sure the REIT+ portfolio is 100% REITs and not REITs with Risk Management, since you already hold a lot of bonds on your own. I have a comparison thread here showing the difference in portfolio values from Oct 2020, and the 100% REITs is overall the better product for holding long-term.

Maybe you can split the 10k into 5k SA 36% and 5k Syfe Equity100, with 150 contribution/month each and then, depending on the returns after a year, move the funds over to the one you like more.

If you need a referral code for Stashaway, can PM me.