PC Speaker recommendation

[kaixax555]

correct me if i am wrong.

An amp is just to give power to the speakers thats all. similar function to a PSU in a desktop?

A DAC can alter the sound signature of the audio, similar to like an EQ?

No a DAC's main purpose is to convert a digital signal to an analog signal

By all intents and purposes, a good DAC is supposed to be transparent (i.e. Almost perfect conversion of digital input signal to analog output signal)

When you think about EQ, the purpose is to alter the signal either at input or output stage

Yes some DACs have built in EQ, but you should treat them as separate entities in the same package

 

[wwenze]

An amp is just to give power to the speakers thats all. similar function to a PSU in a desktop?

By loose definition, yes an amp is the same as a power supply, because their job is to send a voltage into a load (and consequently also high current because the load has low impedance)

Heck, in fact the internal operating mechanism or concept is similar. You have a power supply input (from AC mains or whatever), a reference voltage input, an output, and often a feedback to keep sensing the output so it can be adjusted if necessary. (And some power supplies have minimal feedback, some amps too have minimal feedback, and both are rare, because they are horrible)

The difference is that:

- A power supply has a fixed output voltage, and is capable of supplying varying current into a varying load

- An amplifier has a variable output voltage (due to the varying reference input voltage), and typically have a specific range of output impedances that it supports

And even with the above two categorization, the line between the two can be blurred: Some power supplies cannot operate when the load current is too low (<1A), some amps can dump 15A into 2 ohm as well as handle 10kohm or open-circuits.

But generally speaking an amplifier doesn't have to keep changing the output voltage which is a key performance metric of amplifiers, and consequently amplifiers are more expensive for the same output voltage/current.

Some power regenerators and bench power supplies are pretty close to being amplifiers. Or you can even call them a very very bad amplifier.

 

[hyperfuse]

okay so if an amp just provides power, then any amp that is capable to provide power is enough right? dont need buy expensive amp? since it dont alter sound at all.

 

[wwenze]

okay so if an amp just provides power, then any amp that is capable to provide power is enough right? dont need buy expensive amp? since it dont alter sound at all.

That is what industry researchers have been trying to tell since like the 1970s

Everything has a "too bad to work" and "perfection". If you design an amp and all can do is output a square wave at 12V or -12V, that will be "too bad to work". So some amount of performance is needed.

So the question is, how good before people stop being able to hear the distortion? A rough number is 0.1% plus minus a zero i.e. 1% to 0.01%, there are software that generate the distortion to test with. In SINAD terms, 0.01% is -80dB. So this is already a safe value. People with money and the skills will go for 0.001% or -100dB because they can; this is already better than motherboard soundcards.

Now year 2023, and $100 is sufficient to buy an amp with better performance than what those researchers had to work with 50 years ago.

 

[kaixax555]

okay so if an amp just provides power, then any amp that is capable to provide power is enough right? dont need buy expensive amp? since it dont alter sound at all.

As long as
1. The amp measures clean enough (to be imperceptible)
2. Power meets your needs
3. They don't use absolutely shoddy components or crappy construction

You don't need an expensive amp at all, honestly audio is just full of snake oil since it is the hardest to quantify (though things have improved massively nowadays with more people going into the scientific route).

You don't need to spend a ton of money on an amplifier, but don't cheap out to the point where it either becomes a hazard or breaks down in a few months.

 

[Jeanrc]

speaker too tall and block by monitor not good right?
if like that, i thinking to buy creative pebble pro or v3

 

[ronnie_gogs]

I like to trust audio production gear for PC audio over audiophile gear cause

• The music I listen to is created by production gear
• Audio interface allows me to connect better mics and instruments like guitar directly
• More control like audio routing, mixing
• I like a more flatter not colored monitoring audio. If want flavour I can always EQ.

Current setup Focusrite 6i6 --> Powered JBL Studio monitors
6i6 -->SDIF --> Aune X1S DAC in case I need a amp to drive some headphones. Most of the time the 6i6 can drive the headphones. Planning to sell the X1S.

 

[hyperfuse]

end up i bought the Edifier T5 and hook it up to my existing R1280DBS.

Bought it brand new at $130. But i only paid $40 haha. Dont ask me how.

Ok leh i love the sound haha. maybe i am easily please since i am not an audiophile. the bass hit hard since i am using for desktop use and in a small glass partition study in my living room. Way sufficient bass in my honest real world experience.

Opinion from a general laymen and not a audiophile

i set my bass on the r1280dbs to 0, T5 low pass filter at around 80hz.. ( not sure what i am doing) volume of sub abit lesser than half of the dial. Bass from the sub hits hard enough. Clarity from the r1280dbs is still good.

anyone knows how to set the edifier T5 Low pass filter? i also cant be sure its at which Hz as there is no indicator. only dots. O_O

My R1280dbs is actually connected to a more than 15 year old thrash creative usb SB play external card. But to be honest...i really dont know why. i even bought the Creative soundblaster G6 that is able to play high res audio..but that g6 cant eq my bass as well as this old cheap SB play external usb card. I set this to in my bass boost setting in that SB play audio driver and seriously the bass hits hard. i previously also use some gaming headsets ( i know gaming headsets audio are thrash, no need to reiterate haha) such as the hyperX cloud 2s for example, and connect them to this SB play card and with this setting, the bass really has that hard hitting low sub bass sound which i like. I connect the hyperx cloud 2s to the Soundblaster G6 and cant get that same hard hitting bass. Anyway i dont like muddy sounds and i with this settings, i dont have muddy sounds either, but the bass still hits hard for me.

Currently for headset, i am using the Audeze Maxwell which are using planar magnetic drivers. Really good headset.

 

[wwenze]

That's the problem with soundcard driver EQ - You don't really know what it's doing

That's why we're saying download EqualizerAPO.

Like for example, when you enter the settings in your SB play, it says 6dB, but 6dB what? Shelf filter? Peak boost? At what frequency and what Q? That's why different sound-cards get you different results.

When you use EqualizerAPO, you enter the EQ in parametric format
For example the below bass shelf filter in EqualizerAPO's default control panel:

Then you also get to visualize the output:

This kind of EQ format is called parametric EQ. (Or PEQ for short) And when you enter the same value into another system using another parametric EQ, you will get the same result.

And this is how my room correction settings look like, with the parametric EQ stored into a .txt file format that is readible by multiple

In fact this is the same format that REW generates so you can make your EQ in REW and just copy the file over to be used in EqualizerAPO. Or miniDSP. Or other stuff using the same format.

And even if it doesn't use the same data format - like some speakers can't read .txt files - If you enter the same parameters, the result will be the same. For example, this is the PEQ of Rokit G4:

(A speaker with built-in PEQ, how cool is that)

Or you want to talk about more pro-audio stuff? How about Behringer DEQ2496? 20 years ago people would kill to have this stuff and people who have it to implement room EQ will look at those who don't with signature look of superiority. Again, the strength lies in PEQ. Because room correction data comes in PEQ format.

And fast forward today, you now have the power and flexibility of this thing at a few mouse clicks, all for the price of free. Actually it's even more powerful thanks to how much power computer CPUs have, and some people are even doing FIR filters / convolution and headphone simulation / speaker simulation with it, but that's really the deep end of the bottomless ocean.

And of course you can do whatever routing you want with your subwoofer. And many people use this software so there's lots of information. Here's one guide written by someone:

Spoiler

with an emphasis on the keywords "whatever you want". Like I won't even bother with the matrixing for example. Plus, the current Windows (10 onwards?) you already can select "2.1" under Windows so that takes care of the mixing.

 

[wwenze]

Ok leh i love the sound haha. maybe i am easily please since i am not an audiophile. the bass hit hard since i am using for desktop use and in a small glass partition study in my living room. Way sufficient bass in my honest real world experience.

Opinion from a general laymen and not a audiophile

That's what "40Hz bass extension + lots of bass volume" sounds like. It's hard to convey with words (as evident by what happened in this thread) so hear it and remember it so you know how it sounds so you can use the information later. There's no right or wrong, despite how some may think that only their opinion or way of doing things is correct.

i set my bass on the r1280dbs to 0, T5 low pass filter at around 80hz.. ( not sure what i am doing) volume of sub abit lesser than half of the dial. Bass from the sub hits hard enough. Clarity from the r1280dbs is still good.

anyone knows how to set the edifier T5 Low pass filter? i also cant be sure its at which Hz as there is no indicator. only dots. O_O

How are you connecting it? SB Play -> Stereo 3.5mm to which product? I'm guessing to R1280DBs first and then daisy-chain to T5.

In this setup the T5 low pass filter should be set as high as possible, let R1280DBs handle the crossover. Volume of sub... adjust to your liking.

 

[hyperfuse]

That's what "40Hz bass extension + lots of bass volume" sounds like. It's hard to convey with words (as evident by what happened in this thread) so hear it and remember it so you know how it sounds so you can use the information later. There's no right or wrong, despite how some may think that only their opinion or way of doing things is correct.


How are you connecting it? SB Play -> Stereo 3.5mm to which product? I'm guessing to R1280DBs first and then daisy-chain to T5.

In this setup the T5 low pass filter should be set as high as possible, let R1280DBs handle the crossover. Volume of sub... adjust to your liking.

I know the pro audiophiles in the group will surely ridicule at my setup and well in theory, I am sure they are right. Me using that cheap ass 15 year ago usb sbplay sound card is really thrash in terms of specs and numbers. No doubt for sure.

But for an amazing reason, it just sounds good to me, and I really don't know why haha...

I connect my r1280dbs via the 2.55mm or is it 3.55mm directly to the sbplay. ( see 2.55 or 3.5 I also dunno, that's how newbie I am).

Then I plug the cable that came with the t5 to the sub out port on the r1280dbs and the cable split into L and R cable that I plug into the L and R input ports of the t5. (Apologies again if I use wrong naming terms)

That's how I connect.

Then I continue to use the sb play with that bass boost eq set at 6 or 7db depending and 40hz cut off frequency. On my t5 now, I seriously don't know what to configure so I place the LPF at 12 o clock and volume at about 11am. It's all dots on the knob so I can't be specific what I put my knobs to. All I know is LPF I put at 12 noon. The lpf setting range on the t5 is from 30 to 160hz

So seeing your reply, I should turn the LPF to the max?

 

[wwenze]

speaker too tall and block by monitor not good right?
if like that, i thinking to buy creative pebble pro or v3

Once upon a time, I put my speakers above the monitor. Actually many studios do that too... but they do have an angling mount to point the speakers downwards.

But yea, tweeter behind the screen is generally a no-no. How do you even get your speakers to fit behind the screen to begin with. Some speakers are short (e.g. Audioengine A5+) but that's still 23cm

But to get the Pebble as a consequent is... mmmmmmphffff. I mean, it is ok for what it is, but it might be better to see what your table can fit before choosing the last resort. I would pick iLoud over Pebble any time, but we're talking about a $40 speaker... so it works

 

[hyperfuse]

This is how I place my speakers. Woofer below. Just for near field listening.

I don't really hear the bass if I am not in this glass partition room. But if sit in front of my pc, then the bass hits real hard.

So I guess sound is really subjective. My r1280dbs probably cost me only $110 purchased a year ago. My t5 purchase yesterday from endlesspassion. paid only 40+ out ofnpocket after getting massive discounts from other sources So it's like $150+ and i enjoy how it sounds. That's all that matter isn't it haha

 

[Siyu]

Any wireless speakers for PC? I usually just play DOTA and listen youtube. budget like SGD 500. looks nice and less clutter

 

[LiLAsN]

This is how I place my speakers. Woofer below. Just for near field listening.

I don't really hear the bass if I am not in this glass partition room. But if sit in front of my pc, then the bass hits real hard.

So I guess sound is really subjective. My r1280dbs probably cost me only $110 purchased a year ago. My t5 purchase yesterday from endlesspassion. paid only 40+ out ofnpocket after getting massive discounts from other sources So it's like $150+ and i enjoy how it sounds. That's all that matter isn't it haha

Love your setup. Nice and neat!

If I may make you understand a bit more, it is not that sound is subjective. The thing is, our hearing is limited to a certain range. We can only hear from 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz; and it gets lesser with age or ear damage from very loud noises and so on.

So the thing is, many speakers, are already capable of doing the 20 Hz to 20 kHz (with the help of a subwoofer) already for years and years. This includes the instruments needed to drive the said speakers. It is why a very old tube amp will be able to do the same as a modern amp.
As many have pointed out, amps are just like PC power supplies. They have a rated RMS power as well as allowing for max peak power during sudden loud noises that a speaker needs more power to drive the cones for those particular moments. So it is exactly like how a PC power supply does it in that usually, a GPU will stay around a certain load but there are some scenes with many particle effect explosions that the GPU may need sudden transient spikes of power that a power supply needs to be able to supply the GPU with at any moment.

So when it comes to old soundcards, it is fine to use an old soundcard that can only handle up to 24 bits at 44100 Hz on your Windows Sound settings as mentioned, if you divide it by 2, it means, you are getting the recording audio signal of 22.05 kHz that is higher than the human hearing already as is which is, as a reminder, 20 Hz to 20 kHz. So at most, 24 bits at 48,000 Hz is more than enough for your sound output. You will not be missing any details at all except for any deficiencies in your speaker reproduction of the audio and/or if you have a subwoofer to help handle the missing sub bass region of the audio which is typically around the 20 Hz to 120 Hz frequency range.

So, the reason why you are not able to hear the bass at certain positions of your room or outside of the room is because of bass traps in a room, position of the subwoofer (that is why there is such a thing as a subwoofer crawl) and mostly because of how big the woofer is. Depending on the room size, you will need a certain subwoofer cone size in order to be powerful enough to fill and pressurize the room. The smaller the woofer and the weaker the RMS power of the subwoofer, the more, the subwoofer will not be able to pressurize a certain room size. That is why you mentioned only being able to hear the bass when you are directly in front of the PC.
So as mentioned, I hope you understand why your experience is like so and so. It has nothing to do with preference. It is just that many audio components have already been able to produce the entire human hearing range of audio as well as the speaker not being powerful enough to fill the room and can only pressurize in your near field. And not because sound is subjective.

Hope you find it as interesting to learn as I did upon seeing your setup and hearing your explanation from your experience which seems to be in line with the scientifically objective knowledge of why you get such an experience out of your speaker setup.

Hope you enjoy your purchase. Maybe you'll consider getting a proper 20Hz to 150Hz subwoofer to really experience what a sub bass is which is more of feeling this pressure that can make you scared (as horror movies know this bass frequency range makes your heart feel unnerving because of the improper rhythm to your heart making you feel like something is not right) or hit you hard (with a thump) if you had ever experienced a C4 explosion in real life like I had. Because like the C4 explosion and a subwoofer, it is all about sound pressure and moving the air to create that pressure that you can feel as opposed to hear in that 10-30Hz region that you are missing.
But again, take your time. There's no need to rush in improving a sound system when you may end up buying something underwhelming instead because of a tight budget now instead of saving up the budget over a longer period enough to buy a good one. $40 is an extremely good deal to experience what missing a certain bass region is all about. So you can maybe consider saving up to get a proper one in the future since $40 is really a small drop in the bucket that it wouldn't really affect the budget of getting a proper one.

 

[RockaRolla]

This is how I place my speakers. Woofer below. Just for near field listening.

I don't really hear the bass if I am not in this glass partition room. But if sit in front of my pc, then the bass hits real hard.

So I guess sound is really subjective. My r1280dbs probably cost me only $110 purchased a year ago. My t5 purchase yesterday from endlesspassion. paid only 40+ out ofnpocket after getting massive discounts from other sources So it's like $150+ and i enjoy how it sounds. That's all that matter isn't it haha

Very tidy and neat setup!
Great price you got there as well!
Yeap, as long as you enjoy them, can riao! Thats the most important!

 

[hyperfuse]

Love your setup. Nice and neat!

If I may make you understand a bit more, it is not that sound is subjective. The thing is, our hearing is limited to a certain range. We can only hear from 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz; and it gets lesser with age or ear damage from very loud noises and so on.

So the thing is, many speakers, are already capable of doing the 20 Hz to 20 kHz (with the help of a subwoofer) already for years and years. This includes the instruments needed to drive the said speakers. It is why a very old tube amp will be able to do the same as a modern amp.
As many have pointed out, amps are just like PC power supplies. They have a rated RMS power as well as allowing for max peak power during sudden loud noises that a speaker needs more power to drive the cones for those particular moments. So it is exactly like how a PC power supply does it in that usually, a GPU will stay around a certain load but there are some scenes with many particle effect explosions that the GPU may need sudden transient spikes of power that a power supply needs to be able to supply the GPU with at any moment.

So when it comes to old soundcards, it is fine to use an old soundcard that can only handle up to 24 bits at 44100 Hz on your Windows Sound settings as mentioned, if you divide it by 2, it means, you are getting the recording audio signal of 22.05 kHz that is higher than the human hearing already as is which is, as a reminder, 20 Hz to 20 kHz. So at most, 24 bits at 48,000 Hz is more than enough for your sound output. You will not be missing any details at all except for any deficiencies in your speaker reproduction of the audio and/or if you have a subwoofer to help handle the missing sub bass region of the audio which is typically around the 20 Hz to 120 Hz frequency range.

So, the reason why you are not able to hear the bass at certain positions of your room or outside of the room is because of bass traps in a room, position of the subwoofer (that is why there is such a thing as a subwoofer crawl) and mostly because of how big the woofer is. Depending on the room size, you will need a certain subwoofer cone size in order to be powerful enough to fill and pressurize the room. The smaller the woofer and the weaker the RMS power of the subwoofer, the more, the subwoofer will not be able to pressurize a certain room size. That is why you mentioned only being able to hear the bass when you are directly in front of the PC.
So as mentioned, I hope you understand why your experience is like so and so. It has nothing to do with preference. It is just that many audio components have already been able to produce the entire human hearing range of audio as well as the speaker not being powerful enough to fill the room and can only pressurize in your near field. And not because sound is subjective.

Hope you find it as interesting to learn as I did upon seeing your setup and hearing your explanation from your experience which seems to be in line with the scientifically objective knowledge of why you get such an experience out of your speaker setup.

Hope you enjoy your purchase. Maybe you'll consider getting a proper 20Hz to 150Hz subwoofer to really experience what a sub bass is which is more of feeling this pressure that can make you scared (as horror movies know this bass frequency range makes your heart feel unnerving because of the improper rhythm to your heart making you feel like something is not right) or hit you hard (with a thump) if you had ever experienced a C4 explosion in real life like I had. Because like the C4 explosion and a subwoofer, it is all about sound pressure and moving the air to create that pressure that you can feel as opposed to hear in that 10-30Hz region that you are missing.
But again, take your time. There's no need to rush in improving a sound system when you may end up buying something underwhelming instead because of a tight budget now instead of saving up the budget over a longer period enough to buy a good one. $40 is an extremely good deal to experience what missing a certain bass region is all about. So you can maybe consider saving up to get a proper one in the future since $40 is really a small drop in the bucket that it wouldn't really affect the budget of getting a proper one.

thanks for the response.

yea i do have another subwoofer for my TV, and that one can do 20hz to 150hz. went to google the specs. its also an old soundbar. Philips HTL 9100.

I guess the T5 is good for a small room i guess? i can hear the bass for sure whenever i am inside that enclosed glass partition where my PC is. But i can hear my loud speakers more when i am not in that room than the subwoofer. But it could also be because i didnt turn on my sub woofer volume high? I only turn it to the 10am or 11am on the knob, in which i can actually turn it more, but it becomes too overpowering if i am in the room, thus its enough bass volume at the 10am/11am knob position.

just checked my old soundcard format. yea its only at 16 bit, 48000Hz.

 

[tsteo77]

This is how I place my speakers. Woofer below. Just for near field listening.

I don't really hear the bass if I am not in this glass partition room. But if sit in front of my pc, then the bass hits real hard.

So I guess sound is really subjective. My r1280dbs probably cost me only $110 purchased a year ago. My t5 purchase yesterday from endlesspassion. paid only 40+ out ofnpocket after getting massive discounts from other sources So it's like $150+ and i enjoy how it sounds. That's all that matter isn't it haha

Placement of your setup is not bad. But beware of EQ bass, treble controls from main speakers and DSP bass
from the subwoofer. This are artificial sound produce by microprocessor to hide their low price built capability.
I used to have a low price philips HTS. It uses DSP/EQ sound mode, without it, sound/audio playback is awful.
And check this out regarding health issues exposure to powerful low frequency sound.
http://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:273045/FULLTEXT01.pdf

 

[hyperfuse]

Placement of your setup is not bad. But beware of EQ bass, treble controls from main speakers and DSP bass
from the subwoofer. This are artificial sound produce by microprocessor to hide their low price built capability.
I used to have a low price philips HTS. It uses DSP/EQ sound mode, without it, sound/audio playback is awful.
And check this out regarding health issues exposure to powerful low frequency sound.
http://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:273045/FULLTEXT01.pdf

i turned off the bass knob on the R1280dbs to the zero position. so i guess the speakers wont have any bass eq.

But on my usb soundcard there is, in which my r1280dbs is connected to.

haha had a glance of that article. its more like saying that noise will affect sleep but i think its not related to sub woofer? since i am playing this not during my sleep haha..

 

[hyperfuse]

Very tidy and neat setup!
Great price you got there as well!
Yeap, as long as you enjoy them, can riao! Thats the most important!

that wooden shelf on the desk is purposely bought/custom made to hide my wires underneath it haha. so my monitor and speaker wires all covered by this wooden shelf. An illusion!