Alipay in China

[16/8IF]

Context is, as I have a China bank account but can't seem to transfer money from SG to CN. It got rejected and bounced back to my SG account.
Basically trying to transfer from DBS (no fees) to CN account.

And was told that I will require an account that allows external transfers into to CN as compared to my current account as shared by CN's CS.
Thus, my enquiry on which bank or account specifically allows.
As we all know, its really cumbersome and restrictive to get money into CN, just to pay for things online mainly etc. or usage in China whenever I go over.


Nope, not looking at remittance. And definitely not interested in 3rd party since its illegal which literally is throwing money away if its seized etc. by SG & CN authorities.


This was my expectations as well until CN CS shared that there's accounts that is for local internal CN usage, and foreign fund accceptance accounts.
But the only issue is, I am of course a non citizen and thus, facing issues trying to transfer funds over to my own CN account.

WHen I was based in China, my wife send me money all the time, no problem, you need to setup a multi currencies account. If it is only RMB account it wont work.
The money coming in must always be foreign currency.

After returning to SG , sometime when I intend to spend some time in China, I tt over from SG and when in China, take my passport and China card and do the necessary exchange before the rmb is deposit into the account.

ICBC Singapore when they first started even Singaporean can use this service but later they stop it and only for China Nationals.

I think DBS Singapore have some facilities for China National, they can use their account with DBS and do internet Transfer to their own account in China.

All these are because of foreign exchange control regulation as per person have a certain limits so they keep track of them.

 

[froztheart]

WHen I was based in China, my wife send me money all the time, no problem, you need to setup a multi currencies account. If it is only RMB account it wont work.
The money coming in must always be foreign currency.

After returning to SG , sometime when I intend to spend some time in China, I tt over from SG and when in China, take my passport and China card and do the necessary exchange before the rmb is deposit into the account.

ICBC Singapore when they first started even Singaporean can use this service but later they stop it and only for China Nationals.

I think DBS Singapore have some facilities for China National, they can use their account with DBS and do internet Transfer to their own account in China.

Yes, I was told I need a 多币种综合账户 to receive funds to my CN account which my exisiting account isn't apparently.
is your account 多币种综合账户?

When you arrive in China, still required to visit the bank and verify before withdrawing physical RMB from your CN account?
Sorry, first started what? Don't quite get you.

Yes, should have opened a DBS account when in China, totally forgot about it. Need to do it the next time I am back in China.
Would have been easier since its DBS SG to DBS CN, as compared to my current situation.

 

[16/8IF]

Yes, I was told I need a 多币种综合账户 to receive funds to my CN account which my exisiting account isn't apparently.
is your account 多币种综合账户?

YES

When you arrive in China, still required to visit the bank and verify before withdrawing physical RMB from your CN account?

First you need to understand that there is FX control, you CANNOT send RMB to China.
What you send is Foreign Currency, be it SGD , or USD, that is why you need to have a multi currencies account to first receive this amount in your account.

It wont be reflected in your rmb bank balance , until you bring your passport and bank card to present them at the counter/teller.

After checking, they will tell you the fx rate and if you agree they proceed with the conversion to RMB, you can leave that in your rmb account or take them out,

Sorry, first started what? Don't quite get you.

Yes, should have opened a DBS account when in China, totally forgot about it. Need to do it the next time I am back in China.
Would have been easier since its DBS SG to DBS CN, as compared to my current situation.

I think the DBS one works only for China National and not for others.

Even China National have a yearly FX limit. Since Xi took over everything more strict and complicated.

PS why this way, because once you hit the quota,( yearly limit , if I am not wrong USD 50k). you cannot convert anymore to RMB until the following year( that is why your money has to come in as foreign currency first).

 

[xiaofan]

I think DBS Singapore have some facilities for China National, they can use their account with DBS and do internet Transfer to their own account in China.

For POSB RMB remittance to China, the recipient needs to be China national and they will receive RMB. The sender can be a Singapore citizen.

Same for ICBC RMB remittance to China.

 

[16/8IF]

For POSB RMB remittance to China, the recipient needs to be China national and they will receive RMB. The sender can be a Singapore citizen.

Same for ICBC RMB remittance to China.

In the past my wife send thru ICBC Singapore ,fx rate fixed in Singapore and I was able to received them in my account in China. We are both Singaporean.

Cant remembered which year it changed to only China Nationals.
The reason we did that last time , was ONLY ICBC SIngapore could fixed the FX rate in Singapore while the rest cannot. If I remembered correctly then ICBC Singapore was at the old hong leong building I think opposite the lau pa sai hawker.

i dont know about POSB RMB remittance to China have never use them.

My wife is still sending every 6 months to a China relative who is helping us to take care of our apartment ( mgt fees etc etc) and the China National is also receiving foreign currencies first and have to present ID and bank card at the teller counter to fix the fx rate and change before the rmb is reflected into the account.

In the past used to do that at Bank Of China in Singapore ( middle road branch) near the guan ying temple area.
BOC cannot fixed the FX rate in SG, so it is SGD to China account.

Very simple to check, walk into a Bank of China branch in Singapore, and ask them for a remittance form , there you will see that it is in SGD there wont be any RMB figure.

Ps just send Jan 2024, and will be sending again in June 2024 thru one of the local bank in SG.

 

[froztheart]

YES

First you need to understand that there is FX control, you CANNOT send RMB to China.
What you send is Foreign Currency, be it SGD , or USD, that is why you need to have a multi currencies account to first receive this amount in your account.

It wont be reflected in your rmb bank balance , until you bring your passport and bank card to present them at the counter/teller.

After checking, they will tell you the fx rate and if you agree they proceed with the conversion to RMB, you can leave that in your rmb account or take them out,



I think the DBS one works only for China National and not for others.

Even China National have a yearly FX limit. Since Xi took over everything more strict and complicated.

PS why this way, because once you hit the quota,( yearly limit , if I am not wrong USD 50k). you cannot convert anymore to RMB until the following year( that is why your money has to come in as foreign currency first).

Yes, definitely understand there's FX control. If its outgoing definitely make sense but since its money coming into RMB which is beneficial for CN, the hassle is really silly. lol
So what you are saying is that even with 多币种综合账户, I still need to be physically in CN to verify to have the FX exchanged to my CN account for usage locally in CN, online payments etc.?
Essentially you can have tons of FX sitting in CN account but limited yearly allowance to convert to RMB which is the bottleneck.

For POSB RMB remittance to China, the recipient needs to be China national and they will receive RMB. The sender can be a Singapore citizen.

Same for ICBC RMB remittance to China.

Yup, verified w DBS, seems like recepient needs to be a Chinese citizen to be able to receive the funds, which essntially I cannot ultilise this serivce to transfer from my SG DBS to my CN account.


Which begets the questions, @16/8IF how do you transfer to your own CN account then? Since you and your wife are both Singaporeans.

 

[16/8IF]

Yes, definitely understand there's FX control. If its outgoing definitely make sense but since its money coming into RMB which is beneficial for CN, the hassle is really silly. lol
So what you are saying is that even with 多币种综合账户, I still need to be physically in CN to verify to have the FX exchanged to my CN account for usage locally in CN, online payments etc.?
Essentially you can have tons of FX sitting in CN account but limited yearly allowance to convert to RMB which is the bottleneck.
Yes, and Yes , I also don't understand. When I was based in China and when I wanted to buy a car to drive, had problem. Had to find other solution.

Yup, verified w DBS, seems like recepient needs to be a Chinese citizen to be able to receive the funds, which essntially I cannot ultilise this serivce to transfer from my SG DBS to my CN account.


Which begets the questions, @16/8IF how do you transfer to your own CN account then? Since you and your wife are both Singaporeans.

As mentioned... what we transfer is in SGD, which enter into the foreign currency account,. ( my account with Bank of China in Mainland is a multi currencies account).
My China relative also received them as SGD and go to the bank counter with all the necessary document to
fixed the fx rate and change to RMB.

If you do not have a multi currencies account and only RMB account, what happened is your SGD will enter
into that China branch account ( not yours) and will sit there and than bounced back to the sender.

That is the inconvenience brought on by Foreign Exchange Control regulations... the same impact on WeChat Pay and Alipay

China wants to "track" the money trails , and all this tracking is possible when they release the Digital Yuan than you most likely will be free to do what you want. ( just like in the past, foreigner used FEC).


When I first started visited China for business long long time ago, Foreigner can only use FEC ( foreign exchange certificate) and CANNOT use the RMB even though it is treated as 1-1 by the business outlet .

 

[froztheart]

As mentioned... what we transfer is in SGD, which enter into the foreign currency account,. ( my account with Bank of China in Mainland is a multi currencies account).
My China relative also received them as SGD and go to the bank counter with all the necessary document to
fixed the fx rate and change to RMB.

If you do not have a multi currencies account and only RMB account, what happened is your SGD will enter
into that China branch account ( not yours) and will sit there and than bounced back to the sender.

Understand its not transferring RMB to CN, but FX (SGD/USD etc.)
Sorry, my question is how, like through your SG BOC account to your CN BOC 多币种综合账户? Online (mobile/web banking) or physically at the bank branch?

Right, that is probably what happened, went to branch and got bounced back to me.

 

[16/8IF]

Understand its not transferring RMB to CN, but FX (SGD/USD etc.)
Sorry, my question is how, like through your SG BOC account to your CN BOC 多币种综合账户? Online (mobile/web banking) or physically at the bank branch?

NO , not internet transfer , need to go down to the bank in Singapore, get a remittance form, filled up and answer all the necessary questions, than give them SGD.

If I am in China, and need money for some purpose, I have to message my wife and than she had to basically go down to a local bank in Singapore and filled up the remittance form and give that bank SGD.

Few days later I bring my passport and bank card to present it at the teller, there they will ask you whether u accept today's exchange rate and if agreeable than they proceed to change to rmb , deposit it into your rmb side of my multi currencies account. I can either withdraw or leave it in the acct.

PS maybe some confusion as I didn't see you are talking the internet web mobile account...
this one I have never tried because I closed that facilities,
But I might have used it long time ago but than I had a work permit and also resident permit.

Right, that is probably what happened, went to branch and got bounced back to me.

 

[16/8IF]

Understand its not transferring RMB to CN, but FX (SGD/USD etc.)
Sorry, my question is how, like through your SG BOC account to your CN BOC 多币种综合账户? Online (mobile/web banking) or physically at the bank branch?

Right, that is probably what happened, went to branch and got bounced back to me.

I think best is not to "crack your head" on trying various ways , think under Xi very little chance, so don't waste too much time on it. Before Xi , yes can explore and try and most time there will be a "work around".

 

[Moguls]

No offence, all the ways to transfer money overseas by 1618 is outdated and costly cos there's telex charges and DBS / agent bank charges to use T/T. Furthermore I don't see PRC nationals in Sg use the banking channels (like wat he did) to remit funds to China. Besides one might not get favourable exchange rate using his method.

 

[Epee]

If you are talking about using it in Singapore, up till now , Only China National using their ID for verification can use it, many have tried them already and a pop up notice will give the above message.

Read the FAQ in the apps it is stated there.

There are some in this thread who have not tried and yet claimed that it can be done, for me I only take note of those who have tried it personally.

Of course going forward, things may change, like now apparently new rules that allowed foreigner who does not verified their account can use it for a certain limit in CHINA.

China is trying to look for solution to make it easy for foreigners /tourists to have a better experience and yet have control of foreign exchange. ( could happened when they "deploy" Digital Yuan ? )

Thank you for the information. This will mean that I cannot test the setup to make sure it works before going over. My nephew is going there next week with his school so if it doesn't work will be very jialud.

 

[xiaofan]

No offence, all the ways to transfer money overseas by 1618 is outdated and costly cos there's telex charges and DBS / agent bank charges to use T/T. Furthermore I don't see PRC nationals in Sg use the banking channels (like wat he did) to remit funds to China. Besides one might not get favourable exchange rate using his method.

1) As far as I know, right now the only safe method to transfer money back to PRC National's China bank account is to use bank remitting services from banks like POSB and ICBC as well as few other approved channels like Singtel Dash (unfortunately no official list of these approved channels).

Yes the exchange rate provided by POSB/ICBC may not be the best but reasonable.

2) Last time (for many years until 2022) T/T was not a good method. The preferred method was to use the various 3rd party remitting services in places like the shopping malls and China Town areas, as the exchange rate was higher than the banks. They are no longer safe now based on various reports.

We have first hand experineces that my father-in-law's account was frozen in 2022 after we sent money to the account using the service from the nearby shopping mall. He was able to get the account back when he went back to China in April 2023 (but others may not be so lucky). Now we only use POSB remitting service.

3) Info from Singtel Dash -- this seems to indicate that it is okay to send money to those with official Alipay or WeChat wallet, including foreign nationals with proper visa in China (not for tourists).

Where in China can I remit money to with Singtel Dash?​

Your beneficiary can receive money using any of the following methods:
(1) China UnionPay card
(2) any bank account linked to an Alipay account
(3) WeChat wallet or linked bank card

4) But the case of froztheart is tricky. I do not know of a good way as he is not a China National and his account can not receive money with the normal bank transfer method (T/T).

 

[16/8IF]

Thank you for the information. This will mean that I cannot test the setup to make sure it works before going over. My nephew is going there next week with his school so if it doesn't work will be very jialud.

Just bring some cash along , they do accept cash only think try to bring more small denominations .

If he is going with his school , don't have to work I am sure they have assistance .

 

[Garlic & Butter]

There has to be profit incentive for them to do so, if it is not a requirement in law.

Context is, as I have a China bank account but can't seem to transfer money from SG to CN. It got rejected and bounced back to my SG account.
Basically trying to transfer from DBS (no fees) to CN account.

And was told that I will require an account that allows external transfers (多币种综合账户) into to CN as compared to my current account which I believe is a local only acount as shared by CN's CS.
Thus, my enquiry on which bank or account specifically allows.
As we all know, its really cumbersome and restrictive to get money into CN, just to pay for things online mainly etc. or usage in China whenever I go over.


Nope, not looking at remittance. And definitely not interested in 3rd party since its illegal which literally is throwing money away if its seized etc. by SG & CN authorities.


This was my expectations as well until CN CS shared that there's accounts that is for local internal CN usage, and foreign fund accceptance accounts.
But the only issue is, I am of course a non citizen and thus, facing issues trying to transfer funds over to my own CN account.

hi, you can do a SWIFT, using non RMB (eg. EUR, GBP, USD). The funds will reach the china account but remains unconverted. It may also indicate a 汇 to indicate it's foreign funds. Then do a FX into RMB. The receiving bank needs to support multi currency.

Only thing is SG banks charges so expensive for Swift.

PS: i , remitted USD into own china ICBC account. Wasnt asked for any docs, just do a FX debit credit after the USD reach china acct.

 

[16/8IF]

As far as I know, right now the only safe method to transfer money back to PRC National's China bank account is to use bank remitting services from banks like POSB and ICBC as well as few other approved channels like Singtel Dash (unfortunately no official list of these approved channels).

Yes the exchange rate provided by POSB/ICBC may not be the best but reasonable.

Last time (for many years until 2022) T/T was not a good method. The preferred method was to use the various 3rd party remitting services in places like the shopping malls and China Town areas, as the exchange rate was higher than the banks. They are no longer safe now based on various reports.

We have first hand experineces that my father-in-law's account was frozen in 2022 after we sent money to the account using the service from the nearby shopping mall. HE was able to get the account back when he went back to China in April 2023. Now we only use POSB remitting service.

Info from Singtel Dash -- this seems to indicate that it is okay to send money to those with official Alipay or WeChat wallet, including foreign nationals with proper visa in China (not for tourists).

Where in China can I remit money to with Singtel Dash?​

Your beneficiary can receive money using any of the following methods:
(1) China UnionPay card
(2) any bank account linked to an Alipay account
(3) WeChat wallet or linked bank card

But the case of froztheart is tricky. I do not know of a good way as he is not a China National and his account can not receive money with the normal bank transfer method.

Good u are able to get back your acct.

I am conservative by nature and don't like to go the "cowboy" method that some people are keen to suggest .

I prefer to keep everything above board .

I Do take RMB cash up to the required limit per entry which is normally good enough for my use.

Sometime in social media need to be cautious on some people suggestion, can get you into trouble and not try to save that "small amount" of fees .

All business provides a service and need to cover cost , if everyone don't pay for such services they will close this service and than when you need them there are none .

 

[xiaofan]

hi, you can do a SWIFT, using non RMB (eg. EUR, GBP, USD). The funds will reach the china account but remains unconverted. It may also indicate a 汇 to indicate it's foreign funds. Then do a FX into RMB. The receiving bank needs to support multi currency.

Only thing is SG banks charges so expensive for Swift.

PS: i , remitted USD into own china ICBC account. Wasnt asked for any docs, just do a FX debit credit after the USD reach china acct.

This seems to be the normal way and kind of the "universal way". The other way may be to use Money Order.

We were using this method many years back. But later we found it cheaper and faster to use the remitting services in the shopping centres.

My wife uses her father's Alipay/Taobao account (linked to his bank account) for Taobao shopping since 2015. He father is a Chinese citizen. Then we need to send money to the bank account from time to time. We were using the remitting services in the shopping centres from 2015 to early 2022.

Only when the account of my father-in-law was frozen in early 2022, we got to know method like POSB remitting service to China nationals. We were kind of prepared to lose the money (about RMB3000 remaining). Luckily he was able to get the account back when he went back to China in April 2023.

Lesson learned and now we only use POSB Remitting services through online banking.

 

[xiaofan]

As above reply, most banks provide the service. The police advise against using third-party remittance services but stopped short of providing a list of banks that provide this service.

Indeed it will be good to provide a list of banks or legitimate 3rd party services to send money to a mainland China bank account.

But there are different types of recipients. [Sender can be Singapore citizen].

I have no ideas how to send money back to the account of the 3rd type and 4th type of recipients from Singapore. By right TT (Swift based bank transfer) should work if the China bank account supports multi currency.

1) China nationals with mainland China bank account (and associated China Wechat Pay/China Alipay account, as well mobile number in China)

• POSB/ICBC RMB remitting service will work.
• Legitimate 3rd party services like Singtel Dash will work.
• SWIFT bank transfer (T/T) will work. The receiving bank needs to support multi currency. Usually this method will not be used as it is slow, with high fees and less favorable exchange rate.

2) Foreigh nationals with valid visas to stay in China for business/study (not tourists), with valid mainland China bank account (and associated China Wechat Pay/China Alipay account, as well mobile number in China)

• Legitimate 3rd party services like Singtel Dash will work. Need confirmation.
• SWIFT bank transfer (T/T) will work. The receiving bank needs to support multi currency.

3) Foreigh nationals used to have valid visas to stay in China for business/study (not tourists), with valid mainland China bank account, but no longer holding such visa and may not even have a valid China mobile phone number now. Usually no valid China Wechat Pay or China Alipay account.

• SWIFT bank transfer (T/T) will work (need confirmation). The receiving bank needs to support multi currency.
• Physically deposite money to the account in person should work.

4) Foreigh nationals who somehow were able to set up a China bank account as a tourist. They may or may not have a valid China mobile phone number now. Usually no valid China Wechat Pay or China Alipay account.

• SWIFT bank transfer (T/T) will work (need confirmation). The receiving bank needs to support multi currency.
• Physically deposite money to the account in person should work.

 

[xiaofan]

Indeed it will be good to provide a list of banks or legitimate 3rd party services to send money to a mainland China bank account.

Singtel Dash is one of them.

Hopefully the forum users can provide other valid services and list down the conditions.

https://dash.com.sg/remitchina
Info from Singtel Dash -- this seems to indicate that it is okay to send money to those with official Alipay or WeChat wallet, including foreign nationals with proper visa in China (not for tourists). Need confirmation.

Where in China can I remit money to with Singtel Dash?​

Your beneficiary can receive money using any of the following methods:
(1) China UnionPay card
(2) any bank account linked to an Alipay account
(3) WeChat wallet or linked bank card

 

[froztheart]

NO , not internet transfer , need to go down to the bank in Singapore, get a remittance form, filled up and answer all the necessary questions, than give them SGD.

If I am in China, and need money for some purpose, I have to message my wife and than she had to basically go down to a local bank in Singapore and filled up the remittance form and give that bank SGD.

Few days later I bring my passport and bank card to present it at the teller, there they will ask you whether u accept today's exchange rate and if agreeable than they proceed to change to rmb , deposit it into your rmb side of my multi currencies account. I can either withdraw or leave it in the acct.

PS maybe some confusion as I didn't see you are talking the internet web mobile account...
this one I have never tried because I closed that facilities,
But I might have used it long time ago but than I had a work permit and also resident permit.

Ahhh, okay. So you went the manual way to "deposit" money to your CN account.

Yes, I'm enquiring on how to do it w convenience (e.g web/mobile transfers) to get funds from SG to my CN bank account.
Apologies if it wasn't clear.