Upgrading my Copper RJ45 LAN Cables To 10/25/40G Fiber Optic

[Apparatus]

Hi

I have gave a lot of thought and done a lot of read up on the subject. Just want to plan for the future

Few things to note

1) I have already completed my trunking running of the RJ45 LAN cables for my whole house. To upgrade the RJ45 LAN cables as much as possible to fiber optics first
2) 25/40G transceivers and devices can come later when 25/40G broadband is available and the prices of the transceivers/devices go down
3) To upgrade current TP LINK eb810v router to 3x TP LINK BE85 nodes
4) To buy the following SFP+ switches
- QNAP QSW-3216R-8S8T (unmanaged switch)
- 2x QNAP QSW-M804-4C (managed switch used as unmanged switch)
- MIKROTIK CRS305-1G-4S+IN (managed switch used as unmanged switch)
5) Solo10G SFP+ adapter (fanless)/QNAP QNA-T310G1S SFP+ 10G ethernet adapter (fanless)
6) Very important is this upgrade is for my single-storey HDB unit only so transmission distance is not a factor of consideration. FI, my longest RJ45 LAN cable is about 30m

Since TP LINK BE85 mesh node does NOT support VLAN so managed switches will be used as unmanaged. Bascially, I just need the SFP+ ports.

Fiber Optics Cables

AMPCOM OM4 LC to LC UPC 50/125 Duplex Multimode LSZH 2.0mm Fiber Optic Patch Cable 40Gbps

https://shopee.sg/AMPCOM-OM4-LC-to-...41&xptdk=7456599f-772b-47a8-82be-ae656324db41

ATZ LC Multimode Fiber Optic Patch Cord Duplex (OM4) 40Gbps

https://shopee.sg/ATZ-LC-Multimode-...26&xptdk=2d40eb38-dca5-416e-9add-34a797eaa626

10/25/40G Tranceivers

10Gtek 10GBase-SR SFP+ Transceiver, 10G 850nm MMF, up to 300m (about $24 for 2 pcs)

https://shopee.sg/10Gtek-10GBase-SR...4c&xptdk=4fc6c04b-ac42-471b-9e4d-42088e57f24c

10Gtek 25G SFP28 SFP+ Transceiver, 25GBase-SR Module, 850nm MMF, up to 100m (about $24 per pc)

https://shopee.sg/25G-SFP28-SFP-Tra...69&xptdk=76423809-575c-4495-8b9e-b05ffea9e169

CISCO QSFP-40G-SR-BD duplex MMF with LC connector (preferred since existing cables are duplex MMF)
CISCO QSFP-40G-SR4 with MTP cable and connector

Anyone like to comment with this upgrade to 10G fiber optics? If you have cheaper alternatives for the 10G SFP+ switches/transceivers please recommend. Just make sure the transceivers are compatible to brands like QNAP, TP-LINK, MIKROTIK, SONNETTECH etc. If possible, I would prefer to use one brand of transceivers.

Note :- I would not recommend the use of 25G transceivers in 10G devices here although it's possible as posted in another thread, post #33

https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...d-usb4-tb4-devices-for-10g-use.7011800/page-2

Thanks

 

[Mach3.2]

40GbE is a dead end standard, the transceivers should be dirt cheap 2nd hand on ebay.

btw fibre optic patch cable =/= AOC.

 

[Apparatus]

40GbE is a dead end standard, the transceivers should be dirt cheap 2nd hand on ebay. btw fibre optic patch cable =/= AOC.

As long as one udertsands its fiber optics cables for its intended use can liao. So can I use the mentioned cables for my fiber optics network?

Yah, you are right. Just checked the price on ebay for the 40G transceivers...........dirt cheap ah

 

[Mach3.2]

As long as one udertsands its fiber optics cables for its intended use can liao. So can I use the mentioned cables for my fiber optics network?

Yah, you are right. Just checked the price on ebay for the 40G transceivers...........dirt cheap ah

Figure out what switch you'd be buying first. Some switches will only take modules coded for certain manufacturers. Mikrotik will take anything, not sure about qnap.

While 40GbE QSFP+ transceivers and NICs can be dirt cheap, switches with QSFP+/QSFP28 ports are not as cheap, take note.

 

[Apparatus]

Figure out what switch you'd be buying first. Some switches will only take modules coded for certain manufacturers. Mikrotik will take anything, not sure about qnap.

While 40GbE QSFP+ transceivers and NICs can be dirt cheap, switches with QSFP+/QSFP28 ports are not as cheap, take note.

QNAP has compatible SFP+ transceivers.................look like only customized for QNAP

https://www.optcore.net/product-cat...r/10g-sfp-plus/?filter_compatible-brands=qnap

https://atgbics.com/products/qnap-sfp-trx-10gsfp-sr-mlx-fibre-optic-transceiver

But my TP-LINK router/nodes will be connected to QNAP/MiKroTik switches and the QNAP switch also connects to the MiKroTik switch. Unless the switch states its compatibility otherwise how lah.........or change my switch brands to one type

 

[Mach3.2]

QNAP has compatible SFP+ transceivers.................look like only customized for QNAP

https://www.optcore.net/product-cat...r/10g-sfp-plus/?filter_compatible-brands=qnap

https://atgbics.com/products/qnap-sfp-trx-10gsfp-sr-mlx-fibre-optic-transceiver

But my TP-LINK router/nodes will be connected to QNAP/MiKroTik switches and the QNAP switch also connects to the MiKroTik switch. Unless the switch states its compatibility otherwise how lah.........or change my switch brands to one type

Manufacturers will only certify their own transceivers for their switches, it doesn't mean they block transceivers that are not coded properly. You'll need to do your own research and look for experiences from others with the same switch.

Do more googling, everything is out there

 

[TanKianW]

Hi

I have gave a lot of thought and done a lot of read up on the subject. Just want to plan for the future

Few things to note

1) I have already completed my trunking running of the RJ45 LAN cables for my whole house. To upgrade the RJ45 LAN cables as much as possible to fiber optics first
2) 25/40G transceivers and devices can come later when 25/40G broadband is available and the prices of the transceivers/devices go down
3) To upgrade current TP LINK eb810v router to 3x TP LINK BE85 nodes
4) To buy the following SFP+ switches
- QNAP QSW-3216R-8S8T (unmanaged switch)
- 2x QNAP QSW-M804-4C (managed switch used as unmanged switch)
- MIKROTIK CRS305-1G-4S+IN (managed switch used as unmanged switch)
5) Solo10G SFP+ adapter (fanless)
6) Very important is this upgrade is for my single-storey HDB unit only so transmission distance is not a factor of consideration. FI, my longest RJ45 LAN cable is about 30m

Do take note that the MikroTik CRS series of switches are not plug-and-play to be used as an unmanaged switch out of the box. It comes with RouterOS as the first boot. If you want the "more user-friendly" interface of SwOS, you still need to navigate through the list of options to reboot into it. So don't assume buy just plug and play. Suggest you check out the online tutorial or MikroTik help documentation during the initial setup.​

 

[Apparatus]

Aiya, review again and I think the important thing is compatibility of the optical transceivers between different brands of switches and router/nodes.

So my initial paln is to use TP-LINK router/nodes with MiKroTik and QNAP SFP+ switches.

QNAP QSW-3216R-8S8T Unmanged Switch from B&H
2x QNAP QSW-M804-4C Managed Switch from B&H

Total = US$2135.31 = S$2888.8

Now, if I buy 2x TP-LINK TL-SX3008F Jetstream 8-Port SFP+ 10G Managed Switch (used as unmanaged switch) from Shopee Singapore they'll cost me S$798

Add another MIKROTIK CRS305-1G-4S+IN (managed switch used as unmanged switch) for S$256

So, saving of S$2888.8 - S$798 - S$256 = S$1834.8

PROs of the latter is cost savings. Just use the managed switches as unmanaged switches will do and better SFP+ transceivers compatibility since I'm using more of TP-LINK products. 10Gtek 10GBase-SR tranceivers support TP-LINK and MiKroTik

CON is that it's not so flexible as the QNAP switches come with SFP+ and SFP+/RJ45 combo ports. The TP-LINK switches come with SFP+ ports only. So my existing RJ45 LAN cables, if needed, will need to use 10GBase-T SFP+ transceivers

 

[seowbin]

don't buy 10g rj45 switches if you want to aim for 25g in the future
first problem is they produce a lot of heat and eat a lot of power.

fiber (single mode or multi-mode) , technology is the limitation. with a pair, you can run 100g nowadays.

I will recommend you just go and buy this
https://mikrotik.com/product/ccr2004_1g_12s_2xs#fndtn-specifications
should be around 1k sgd range + GST

you don't need seperate router/switches, 1 shot reach the end goal

the nic card wise, you can buy 2nd hand mellanox connectx-4 , 2 port 25g card , less than 50 each from china.
a 10g sfp optic, i can sell you 20 bucks, buy more cheaper. keke

by the way, the optics, can flash one. you want to compatible with cisco, intel, or whatever also can. usually cheaper brand bo chup like tp-link and mikrotik. i use cisco coded optics also can work

much cheaper than those 10g rj45 modules, 50+ bucks onwards

 

[Apparatus]

don't buy 10g rj45 switches if you want to aim for 25g in the future
first problem is they produce a lot of heat and eat a lot of power.

fiber (single mode or multi-mode) , technology is the limitation. with a pair, you can run 100g nowadays.

I will recommend you just go and buy this
https://mikrotik.com/product/ccr2004_1g_12s_2xs#fndtn-specifications
should be around 1k sgd range + GST

you don't need seperate router/switches, 1 shot reach the end goal

the nic card wise, you can buy 2nd hand mellanox connectx-4 , 2 port 25g card , less than 50 each from china.
a 10g sfp optic, i can sell you 20 bucks, buy more cheaper. keke

by the way, the optics, can flash one. you want to compatible with cisco, intel, or whatever also can. usually cheaper brand bo chup like tp-link and mikrotik. i use cisco coded optics also can work

much cheaper than those 10g rj45 modules, 50+ bucks onwards

That is only a powerful router without WiFi 7, not mesh. Yes, it has some great features like support for SFP+/25G SFP28 ports good for future proofing

I'm considering another alternative and that is using SM with ALL MIKROTIK switches

 

[TanKianW]

I will recommend you just go and buy this
https://mikrotik.com/product/ccr2004_1g_12s_2xs#fndtn-specifications
should be around 1k sgd range + GST

you don't need seperate router/switches, 1 shot reach the end goal

Have you checked the block diagram on this model already?

This one all connection ports have no inter-switching feature (L2/L3 HW offload) coz no "switch chip". The "PIPE" does not have true switching function (just passthrough), which is the reason for the low cost. For switching, all flows go through the CPU so performance will not be optimal. Still requires a L2/L3 switch.

In conclusion, cannot replace a switch.​

 

[Apparatus]

My new plan using Single Mode Fiber Optics Cables. Sorry, keep on changing because of some issues

Router/Nodes : TP-LINK BE85 with 10G SFP+ port

Switches : MIKROTIK Switches (both are managed and fanless – to use as unmanaged switches)

- 2x MIKROTIK CRS309-1G-8S 10G 8-port SFP+ Managed Switch (S$462x2 = $924)
https://shopee.sg/MikroTik-Cloud-Ro...de&xptdk=1af170aa-9517-4dab-8210-98005366e2de

- 2x MIKROTIK CRS305-1G-4S+IN 4xSFP+ 10G Managed Switch (S$256x2 = $512)
https://shopee.sg/MikroTik-Cloud-Ro...3d&xptdk=5252ec0a-1c9c-4e18-bd55-ae3666532c3d

Notes on MIKROTIK Switches in using 10GBase-T RJ45 SFP+ Transceivers
https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/display/ROS/MikroTik+wired+interface+compatibility
- MIKROTIK CRS309-1G-8S – To be used with external fan/aircon cooling in open space
- MIKROTIK CRS305-1G-4S+IN – Supports up to 2 simultaneous 10GBase-T RJ45 SFP+ Transceivers

Optical Transceivers : MIKROTIK (between MIKROTIK switches)

XS+31LC10D SM Dual LC UPC 1G/10G/25G SFP/SFP+/SFP28 1310nm wavelength
Also, this optical transceiver is good for future proofing to 25G (S$182.6/pc)

https://www.amazon.com/Mikro-Tik-XS-31LC10D-Combined/dp/B09BP1K6TK

10Gtek 10GBase-LR SFP+ Dual LC SM Transceiver, 10G 1310nm SMF (S$39.23/2-pc)
For connection between devices/TP-LINK (router/nodes/switches) and MIKROTIK switches

https://shopee.sg/10Gtek-【2-pack】10GBase-LR-SFP-Transceiver-10G-1310nm-SMF-up-to-10-km-Compatible-with-Cisco-SFP-10G-LR-Meraki-MA-SFP-10GB-LR-Ubiquiti-UniFi-UF-SM-10G-Mikrotik-and-More-i.726660190.16896008016?sp_atk=510161c1-5afa-406f-a5d9-e84278332594&xptdk=510161c1-5afa-406f-a5d9-e84278332594

Single Mode Fiber Optics : LC UPC to LC UPC Duplex OS2 Single Mode Riser (OFNR) 2.0mm 9/125 Fiber Optic Patch Cable

After much searching I'll only recommend from

FS.com Singapore

https://www.fs.com/sg/products/40191.html

PROS
1) cheapest
2) it uses G657.A1 standard with a cable minimum bending radius of 10mm. And G657.A1 standard is compatible to G652.D standard in all other aspects. FI, G652.D standard comes with a cable minimum bending radius of 30mm
3) can customized to odd lengths (eg. 18m, 28m, 33m etc) with different color cables (limited colors option) to meet your needs
3) jacket can come with OFNR/LSZH
4) OD 2.0mm is thinner and more flexible in installation


The below 3 other brands are from Shopee Singapore and I don't recommend them

1) AMPCOM Single Mode Duplex Fiber LC LC Fiber Optic Patch Cable Duplex 9/125 LC to LC UPC

https://shopee.sg/AMPCOM-Single-Mod...08&xptdk=d8b5d5d6-6d6b-4df3-be14-740206e3e108

On the above website the cables are printed G652.D which according to the standard states that it has a cable bending radius of 30mm. No odd lengths and colors customization. Comes in OD 2.0mm. jacket comes with LSZH

2) 10Gtek Fiber Patch Cable - LC to LC OS2 10Gb/Gigabit Singlemode Jumper Duplex 9/125 LSZH Fiber Optic Cord

https://shopee.sg/【0.5-Meter~50-Meter】Fiber-Patch-Cable-LC-to-LC-OS2-10Gb-Gigabit-Singlemode-Jumper-Duplex-9-125-LSZH-Fiber-Optic-Cord-for-SMF-SFP-Transceiver-Yellow-i.726660190.25955239656?sp_atk=4879d8db-ca4d-45a2-9e2f-0fe641a9acf3&xptdk=4879d8db-ca4d-45a2-9e2f-0fe641a9acf3

No indication of complying with G657.A1/G652.D standard. No odd lengths and colors customization. Available in OD 3.0mm.

3) ATZ LC/UPC - LC/UPC SINGLEMODE DUPLEX

https://shopee.sg/ATZ-LC-UPC-LC-UPC...85&xptdk=d28ce990-df0a-4387-ab00-b7af09574985

Most expensive per metre length of cable. Available in OD 2.0mm. Complies with G657.A1 standard with bending radius of 10mm. No odd lengths and colors customization. No indication jackets come with LSZH



Please comment. I need some endorsement before proceeding to buy the cables and transceivers

 

[Apparatus]

My Set Up

 

[Mach3.2]

https://www.amazon.com/Mikro-Tik-XS-31LC10D-Combined/dp/B09BP1K6TK

fs.com is cheaper, and fs.com is not the cheapest already. Taobao probably cheaper.

https://www.fs.com/products/155189.html

 

[Apparatus]

fs.com is cheaper, and fs.com is not the cheapest already. Taobao probably cheaper.

https://www.fs.com/products/155189.html

Yup, I'll take note of that

BTW, how's the compatibility with MIKROTIK and TP-LINK since your link is for CISCO? There's another for GENERIC. What's the difference between the 2 except for prices? Which is better?

Thanks

 

[seowbin]

Have you checked the block diagram on this model already?

This one all connection ports have no inter-switching feature (L2/L3 HW offload) coz no "switch chip". The "PIPE" does not have true switching function (just passthrough), which is the reason for the low cost. For switching, all flows go through the CPU so performance will not be optimal. Still requires a L2/L3 switch.

In conclusion, cannot replace a switch.​

Ya hor, not line rate but still don't think anyone home can reach this kind of speed.

30+g for switching without filters

 

[firesong]

I was just gonna jump in and add a vote for Mikrotik for interconnecting hardware (CRS series) too. While the set up is quite a royal PITA for first timers to RouterOS, from experience they seamlessly plug into most network setups much easier than some of the bigger brand names. Also, the versatility and feature set is not inferior to the bigger names and is much more full featured at a low price point, so that's quite a big plus. There's definitely going to be budget left over to buy extra hardware to experiment with.

Just remember to check their documentation for their specs - if switching is the goal, go with the CRS series and not try and depend on the CCR. It will work, but expect bottlenecking at higher throughputs.

 

[Mach3.2]

Yup, I'll take note of that

BTW, how's the compatibility with MIKROTIK and TP-LINK since your link is for CISCO? There's another for GENERIC. What's the difference between the 2 except for prices? Which is better?

Thanks

Difference is the vendor code programmed into the module EEPROM. Mikrotik is not picky on vendor code, dunno about tplink.

Module is the same.

 

[Apparatus]

Difference is the vendor code programmed into the module EEPROM. Mikrotik is not picky on vendor code, dunno about tplink.

Module is the same.

So GENERIC should be better since there's no vendor code, right?

 

[Mach3.2]

Totally up to you for mikrotik since the switch won't care.