New 10Gbps/5Gbps/6Gbps/3Gbps XGS-PON based plans

[sglandscape]

Surprised that M1 10G internet is not available in all locations in singapore.

For existing users, they have been very aggressive to push for 2.5G instead of their other plans too, likely as you mentioned. Probably have not upgraded their OLT to XGS-PON and I think they would start losing customers very quickly.

 

[xiaofan]

New Singtel 3Gbps plan offer at S$29.90 per month.
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/singtel-5gbps-enhanced.7030365/page-15

Singtel says the offer is only new customers or targetted existing customers only. But other existing Singtel users can still try to negotiate with Singtel to get the same offer as well. It can be a good option for existing customers since it is cheaper than the 2Gbps recontract offer at S$36.90 per month.

Looks like Singtel really follws up with the competition from Starhub seriously. But I am guessing that they may already lose quite some customers to Starhub.

Take note Singtel only has ONR option (one 10G LAN port and 4 x 1G LAN ports for ZTE F8648P ONR, or 3 x 1G LAN ports for Nokia XS-240X-A ONR) and comes with lousy Singtel AX5400 wirelss router (1Gbps only, automatically running in AP mode behind the ONR) which you can safely put aside since it is not very useful).

Apple to apple comparison of wireless performance with the default bundle:
Starhub S$29.55 per month 5Gbps ONR special offer vs Singtel 3Gbps at S$29.90 per month offer.
Nokia XS-2426X-A ONR (AX6000) + Nokia Beacon 2 >> Singtel wired ONR (no wireless function) + Singtel AX5400 router

Good thing about Singtel --> stable, with some contents bundle, free digital voice.
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/singtel-5gbps-enhanced.7030365/page-15

https://www.singtel.com/personal/products-services/broadband/eform/3gbps-enhanced-plan

Fibre Plan includes:

• Home line
• Registration fee waiver (worth $54.50)
• Singtel weekday/weekend router installation waiver (worth up to $147.71) - ONLINE EXCLUSIVE
• 12 months of Broadband Protect (U.P. $3/mthapplies thereafter)
• 12 months of Disney+ Premium (U.P. $15.98/mththereafter)
• 6 months of Amazon Prime (U.P. $2.99/mth applies thereafter)
• 3 months of Microsoft 365 Family subscription (U.P. $18.99/mth applies thereafter)
• 1 month of Security Suite Triple Protect and Parental Control Pass subscription (U.P $19.20/mthapplies thereafter)

1. Nice finding, another hidden link added here.
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/singapore-isp-comparisons.6665380/#post-138746082

2. Terms and conditions --> they always say only for new customers or targetted existing customers. But other existing Singtel users can try to negotiate with Singtel to get the same offer as well.
https://www.singtel.com/content/dam.../fibre-3gbps-enhanced-plan-btl-eform-tncs.pdf

Promotion ends 30 November 2024. Applicable for new Fibre Broadband sign-ups and intended recipient only.

All promotions and additional add-on items are on a first-come-first-served, while stocks last basis. Singtel
reserves the right to change models of devices due to stock availability. All prices stated are inclusive of GST
calculated at the prevailing GST rate. Prices will be adjusted according to any changes to prevailing GST rates.

3. Typical setup intended by Singtel
https://www.singtel.com/content/dam...ments/fibre-3gbps-enhanced-plan-faq-setup.pdf

 

[xiaofan]

You may feel strange when I say Nokia XS-240X-A ONR for Singtel in the above reply.

You may say, "wait a moment, that is the model of Starhub XGS-PON ONT".

Indeed I was also surprised when I see it mentioned in Singtel ONT/ONR/Router support website.
https://www.singtel.com/personal/support/broadband/routers-ont

Apparently Nokia XS-240X-A can be configured in XGS-PON ONR mode (10G LAN and three 1G LAN ports are all working) or XGS-PON ONT mode (only the 10G LAN port is working). You can basically consider the ONT mode to be the same as the ONR 10G LAN port bridged and 1G LAN ports deactivated.

In fact, Singtel issued ZTE ZXHN F620 ONR can also be configure in ONT mode by Singtel for ONT replacement of existing ONT users.

Please refer to the following posts as well.
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...te-f8648p-superadmin-password.6946718/page-12

There is a mention of getting Nokia XGS-PON ONR instead of ZTE F8648P XGS-PON ONR in this thread. At that time Singtel has not really deployed the Nokia ONR and there is no listing of Nokia XGS-PON ONR on any of the Singtel websites.

Now Singtel has listed the Nokia XGS-PON ONR. Very interestingly it is the same Nokia XS-240X-A model, used as an ONT for Starhub 5Gbps/10Gbps plans (MR users may have Nokia XS-250X-A or Nokia XS-240X-A).
https://www.singtel.com/personal/support/broadband/routers-ont

• Huawei HG8244H ONR, GPON ONR
• Huawei HG8240T5 ONR, GPON ONR
• Nokia G240 ONR, GPON ONR
• ZTE F8648P ONR, XGS-PON ONR, with one 10G LAN port and four 1G LAN ports
• ZTE ZXHN F620 ONR, GPON ONR, can also be configure in ONT mode by Singtel for ONT replacement
• Huawei OptiXstar V183 ONR, XGS-PON ONR for Singtel FTTR plan
• Nokia XS-240X-A XGS ONR, new XGS-PON ONR, with one 10G LAN port and three 1G LAN ports (apparently can also configured as XGS-PON ONT as used by Starhub for its 5Gbps/10Gbps service).

Singtel's simple installation guide for Nokia XS-240X-A ONR.
https://www.singtel.com/content/dam/singtel/personal/support/broadband/broadband-troubleshooting/nokia-xs-240x-a-xgs/Nokia XS-240X-A XGSPON ONR Installation Guide v2.pdf

 

[Henry Ng]

For existing users, they have been very aggressive to push for 2.5G instead of their other plans too, likely as you mentioned. Probably have not upgraded their OLT to XGS-PON and I think they would start losing customers very quickly.

I agree with you and that is why i am surprised. Others already upgraded their OLT.

 

[williamyiyi]

@xiaofan @Henry Ng Bro, after changing to ONT.
The download speed is 5000mbps, and the upload speed is 7000+.
Only 2 times. I got 7100 and 7600 download speeds.
But now I keep testing only 5k+ download speeds. Is this considered okay?
Thank you

 

[xiaofan]

@xiaofan @Henry Ng Bro, after changing to ONT.
The download speed is 5000mbps, and the upload speed is 7000+.
Only 2 times. I got 7100 and 7600 download speeds.
But now I keep testing only 5k+ download speeds. Is this considered okay?
Thank you

What is router used? What is the test device and OS used?

If using EB810v, you can use the built-in OOkla SpeedTest inside the router to check the WAN speed.

 

[williamyiyi]

What is router used? What is the test device and OS used?

If using EB810v, you can use the built-in OOkla SpeedTest inside the router to check the WAN speed.

I used the Starhub speed exe test and the OOkla speed test desktop software for the test. I tested directly from ONT to my desktop, and there is no router yet. I am waiting for the new router to arrive. My network card is TPLINK TX401.

If the upload speed is always 7000+ Mbps, the download speed is only 5000+. This means nothing is wrong on my side. Maybe it is due to sharing with other users? or peak hour? I worry about my setup/network card issue. If this is normal, then okay.

 

[froztheart]

Just joined the 10Gbps league, makes more sense since already paying more for the TV passes with Starhub.
Essentially, its a free fibre plan included for my use case with bundled benefits like Netflix, Disney+ etc.

 

[xiaofan]

I used the Starhub speed exe test and the OOkla speed test desktop software for the test. I tested directly from ONT to my desktop, and there is no router yet. I am waiting for the new router to arrive. My network card is TPLINK TX401.

If the upload speed is always 7000+ Mbps, the download speed is only 5000+. This means nothing is wrong on my side. Maybe it is due to sharing with other users? or peak hour? I worry about my setup/network card issue. If this is normal, then okay.

TP-Link TX401 is known to be problematic under Windows. Same for Asus XG-C100C.

These two are the most notorious 10G network adapters in this forum under Windows. Both are using Marvell AQC107/AQC113C chipset. Some users have to reinstall Windows to get the right speed.

They are usually fine under Linux. So I will say it is partially Windows problem, partially Marvell problem.

 

[xiaofan]

More info about 10G network adapters here.
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/1gbe-and-beyond-ethernet-adapters.7068236/

PCI-E adapters using Marvell AQC107/AQC113C chipset may have issues under Windows.

TP-Link TX401and Asus XG-C100C are the most notorious 10G network adapters in this forum under Windows. Both are using Marvell AQC107/AQC113C chipset. Some users have to reinstall Windows to get the right speed.

They are usually fine under Linux. So I will say it is partially Windows problem, partially Marvell problem.

 

[xiaofan]

https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/1gbe-and-beyond-ethernet-adapters.7068236/

Some cheap and commonly recommended 10GbE adapters are the Intel 500 series adapters, and Nvidia/Mellanox ConnectX-3 and ConnectX-4 Lx cards. These can be purchased for around $100, or even way under $100 on ebay/taobao.

 

[williamyiyi]

More info about 10G network adapters here.
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/1gbe-and-beyond-ethernet-adapters.7068236/

Okay, thank you so much bro.
Learn something

 

[williamyiyi]

TP-Link TX401 is known to be problematic under Windows. Same for Asus XG-C100C.

These two are the most notorious 10G network adapters in this forum under Windows. Both are using Marvell AQC107/AQC113C chipset. Some users have to reinstall Windows to get the right speed.

They are usually fine under Linux. So I will say it is partially Windows problem, partially Marvell problem.

Bro one more question
Do you have any recommendations for a Windows network card?

This?

1) There are many cheap 10G NICs from Taobao (below S$50) with single or dual 10G SFP+ ports (Intel X520 chipset) or 10G RJ45 ports (Intel X540 chipsets). They are usually based on Intel X520 or X540 chipsets and they are usually second hand from the retired servers.

Newer Intel X550 and X710 based NICs will be more expensive but still quite reasonable priced, say at around S$100 to S$200 from Taobao.

These Intel chipsets or Nvidia Mellanox 3/4 chipsets based NICs are server grade and will have higher performance than below consumer 10G NICs.

 

[xiaofan]

Bro one more question
Do you have any recommendations for a Windows network card?

This?

1) There are many cheap 10G NICs from Taobao (below S$50) with single or dual 10G SFP+ ports (Intel X520 chipset) or 10G RJ45 ports (Intel X540 chipsets). They are usually based on Intel X520 or X540 chipsets and they are usually second hand from the retired servers.

Newer Intel X550 and X710 based NICs will be more expensive but still quite reasonable priced, say at around S$100 to S$200 from Taobao.

These Intel chipsets or Nvidia Mellanox 3/4 chipsets based NICs are server grade and will have higher performance than below consumer 10G NICs.

Yes. I am not an expert in this area but I have no issues with very cheap Intel X520 based dual 10G SFP+ ports for my Ryzen 5600G CPU based cheap desktop. Driver is an issue under Windows 11 as Intel no longer supports the chipset under Windows 11. I have to use older version of drivers for Windows 11. No issues with Linux.

If you need RJ45, then Intel X540 chipset based NICs are very cheap. I have bought one but I have not used it.

But as per the experts, Intel X550 based NICs may be the way to go as they support 2.5Gbe/5Gbe and the driver may be better supported under Windows 11.

For Fibre, then Intel X710 chipset based NIC is the way to go.

I think you can ask in that thread and experts there can advice you on what to buy.

 

[williamyiyi]

Yes. I am not an expert in this area but I have no issues with very cheap Intel X520 based dual 10G SFP+ ports for my Ryzen 5600G CPU based cheap desktop. Driver is an issue under Windows 11 as Intel no longer supports the chipset under Windows 11. I have to use older version of drivers for Windows 11. No issues with Linux.

If you need RJ45, then Intel X540 chipset based NICs are very cheap. I have bought one but I have not used it.

But as per the experts, Intel X550 based NICs may be the way to go as they support 2.5Gbe/5Gbe and the driver may be better supported under Windows 11.

For Fibre, then Intel X710 chipset based NIC is the way to go.

I think you can ask in that thread and experts there can advice you on what to buy.

Noted, and thank you so much bro.
Appreciated.

 

[laokorkor]

TP-Link TX401 is known to be problematic under Windows. Same for Asus XG-C100C.

These two are the most notorious 10G network adapters in this forum under Windows. Both are using Marvell AQC107/AQC113C chipset. Some users have to reinstall Windows to get the right speed.

They are usually fine under Linux. So I will say it is partially Windows problem, partially Marvell problem.

Hi xiaofan, you're saying the 10G network adaptor works perfectly under Linux, right? So, it's not a hardware issue; most likely it's a Windows device driver issue. So, don't change the network adaptor, wait for the vendor to patch the Windows device driver. Since it has a good reference implementation in Linux, this should be easier.

 

[xiaofan]

Hi xiaofan, you're saying the 10G network adaptor works perfectly under Linux, right? So, it's not a hardware issue; most likely it's a Windows device driver issue. So, don't change the network adaptor, wait for the vendor to patch the Windows device driver. Since it has a good reference implementation in Linux, this should be easier.

Unfortunately Windows device driver development is very difficult and there are less and less such driver development experts in the world, much less than so-called Linux device driver developers.

Microsoft used to have a MVP program for Windows driver development, later there is no more such category.

I happen to know a little surface thingy about Windows driver development. I am not a programmer and I know next to nothing about Windows programming. But somehow I have been involved in a few Open Source projects for many years in the role of testing and technical support, which have some components of Windows driver development. So I know it is very difficult.

You can take a look at the traffic of the following forum, where some top Windows driver development experts (and newbies) are discussing issues. Many newbies come from India. BTW, I do not really read the posts there since I may only know 0.1% of the stuff there. But I have something which I need to know so I only ask those questions when needed.
https://community.osr.com/

 

[ra[g]e]

Unfortunately Windows device driver development is very difficult and there are less and less such driver development experts in the world, much less than so-called Linux device driver developers.

Microsoft used to have a MVP program for Windows driver development, later there is no more such category.

I happen to know a little surface thingy about Windows driver development. I am not a programmer and I know next to nothing about Windows programming. But somehow I have been involved in a few Open Source projects for many years in the role of testing and technical support, which have some components of Windows driver development. So I know it is very difficult.

You can take a look at the traffic of the following forum, where some top Windows driver development experts (and newbies) are discussing issues. Many newbies come from India. BTW, I do not really read the posts there since I may only know 0.1% of the stuff there. But I have something which I need to know so I only ask those questions when needed.
https://community.osr.com/

Thank you so much for your sharing. Just wondering if you're able to troubleshoot this issue I have with ST 10Gbps.

Current setup is:

ONR -> TL-SX105 -> 30m? (DB to MBR) of new BTO Cat 6 cables -> TL-SX105 -> XG-C100C

Max speed I've ever gotten is just above 6Gbps and typically it barely hits 5Gbps. Is this expected speeds for the ST 10Gbps plan or is something causing speed drops?

I've not been able to test directly the ONR speeds, don't have any 10Gbps laptop unfortunately.

 

[xiaofan]

Thank you so much for your sharing. Just wondering if you're able to troubleshoot this issue I have with ST 10Gbps.

Current setup is:

ONR -> TL-SX105 -> 30m? (DB to MBR) of new BTO Cat 6 cables -> TL-SX105 -> XG-C100C

Max speed I've ever gotten is just above 6Gbps and typically it barely hits 5Gbps. Is this expected speeds for the ST 10Gbps plan or is something causing speed drops?

I've not been able to test directly the ONR speeds, don't have any 10Gbps laptop unfortunately.

ST 10Gbps is very good in terms of speed, the problem is most likely related to XG-C100C (based on Marvell AQC107 or AQC113C depending on version).

Asus XG-C110C and TP-Link TX401 are the two most notorious network adapters in this forum, under Windows.

More info here.
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/5gbe-and-beyond-ethernet-adapters.7068236/

PCI-E adapters using Marvell AQC107/AQC113C chipset may have issues under Windows.

TP-Link TX401and Asus XG-C100C are the most notorious 10G network adapters in this forum under Windows. Both are using Marvell AQC107/AQC113C chipset. Some users have to reinstall Windows to get the right speed.

They are usually fine under Linux. So I will say it is partially Windows problem, partially Marvell problem.

 

[ra[g]e]

ST 10Gbps is very good, the problem is most likely related to XG-C100C (based on Marvell AQC107 or AQC113C depending on version).

Asus XG-C110C and TP-Link TX401 are the two most notorious network adapters in this forum, under Windows.

More info here.
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/5gbe-and-beyond-ethernet-adapters.7068236/

That's just sad. Thank you for the insight. Any response from Asus? Appears to be just a driver problem. Based on the issues you heard with the Asus adapter - is it reports on the adapter not giving the full speed, and having some speed degradation?

I've only seen an "all-or-nothing" complaint where the user was stuck at 1Gbps with that adapter.

Unfortunately among the recommended list I'll be looking to shell out at least $200 for the Intel x4 one. Also given the position of the empty PCI-E slot at the bottom the airflow is not going to be very good.