[GPGT] PSP's Stephanie Tan denounces the lack of strong action for bullying in Schs! Calls for MOE to be proactive and conduct direct investigations!

[psyger-zero]

As long as there are ppl living together there will be bullying. I

Hence the need for this

 

[ST Optimist]

It ...all began. ...from the strawberry generation........ Society say parent cannot whack children even if they r brat......scare they got scar later .....then school cannot whack ...because parent will complain........everybody cannot whack the brat ....say can talk nicely teach them love your neighbor love your family love your country love the world...........simi Sai.....now the brat becoming monster.......then parent kpkb again.... say simi lousy school......duno how to teach.......Not all students can be taught.....All school teach the same thing teach ppl to be good....but not all student learn.......some can learn know how to listen ........some simply just waiting to be whack......either now or later in life.....

 

[Lonewolf83]

i doubt they say the same thing when their own kid is in danger.

Boss, when that happened, it is crisis management liao

 

[itedino]

Just ask the sch to assist can already.

 

[daveteo88]

It is the way they continue to silence the victim.
Which is not really helping them and their parents.

Even the bully will hv a bigger bulky. Like jungle big animal eat small animal but big animal also captured by bigger animal to eat. The biggest and most fierce animal also captured by man kanna lock up in cage and display in zoo for ppl to see. The bully will also end up like this

 

[DeadPeople]

i feel nowadays our politics getting more interesting like corporate politics. a bit of mistake will make it big big .

 

[coldspot]

play stesen portable!

 

[daveteo88]

It ...all began. ...from the strawberry generation........ Society say parent cannot whack children even if they r brat......scare they got scar later .....then school cannot whack ...because parent will complain........everybody cannot whack the brat ....say can talk nicely teach them love your neighbor love your family love your country love the world...........simi Sai.....now the brat becoming monster.......then parent kpkb again.... say simi lousy school......duno how to teach.......Not all students can be taught.....All school teach the same thing teach ppl to be good....but not all student learn.......some can learn know how to listen ........some simply just waiting to be whack......either now or later in life.....

"Parents (voters) kpkb lousy school. Dunno how to teach"

Lawrence Wong: Heng ah! School teacher kanna blame. Nobody say Vote Them Out!

 

[Medicated Oil]

Even the bully will hv a bigger bulky. Like jungle big animal eat small animal but big animal also captured by bigger animal to eat. The biggest and most fierce animal also captured by man kanna lock up in cage and display in zoo for ppl to see. The bully will also end up like this

We have to deal with the small one before they become big.
The 3 kids need to be send to the boys home.
Or else bringing them back will continue to have more new nightmare.

 

[charleslee1989]

Arent u advocating for schools to take stronger and more prompt action?

So do u prefer more or less authoritarian govt? Im confused.

If not govt take actions thru schools, who are you thinking shd take action instead?

The structure and the chain of command when sai hits the fan is all there leh. Telling people to do what they are paid to do without fear or favour is authoritarian??

Doing a one size fit all school rules with prescribed punishment (which is what you are advocating) is true authoritarianism.

 

[Eliwood]

The structure and the chain of command when sai hits the fan is all there leh. Telling people to do what they are paid to do without fear or favour is authoritarian??

Doing a one size fit all school rules with prescribed punishment (which is what you are advocating) is true authoritarianism.

Lol so how would u describe Stephanie asking MOE to take over investigation and installing more CCTV in schools to perform surveillance?

The heightened surveillance part sure sounds authoritarian to me. Far more than setting clear rules and guidelines.

Fyi every country has some form of prescribed punishment when certain laws are broken. Would you consider all such countries to be authoritarian?

 

[charleslee1989]

Lol so how would u describe Stephanie asking MOE to take over investigation and installing more CCTV in schools to perform surveillance?

The heightened surveillance part sure sounds authoritarian to me. Far more than setting clear rules and guidelines.

Fyi every country has some form of prescribed punishment when certain laws are broken. Would you consider all such countries to be authoritarian?

What Stephanie is proposing are new pathways to tackling this issue where the response to bullying can be a bit slow on the school authority side.

In an ideal situation, MOE could do the investigations if required. However, the world is not that ideal all the time so she proposed another solution which is for the MOE to oversee such investigations by the school authorities AKA demand for updates to the investigation of the case and asking how the conclusion of the case is derived.

It is no different from the Chief Prosecutor or even the AG asking the State Prosecuting Officer for a case how the case is being build and what is the conclusion of the job done. This whole process sounds authoritarian to you? Or is it just a foreign concept called accountability that your fellow party members never heard of?

As for heightened surveillance with more CCTV be considered as authoritarianism , I take lead from LW and work with AI.

The Question I asked AI : Does installing more CCTVs in Schools be considered as authoritarianism?

Spoiler

Answer :
That’s a really thoughtful question. Whether installing more CCTVs in schools is considered authoritarianism depends on why they are installed, how they are used, and how transparent the policy is.


Here are a few angles to consider:

Arguments that it can lean toward authoritarianism:​

• Surveillance culture: A large increase in cameras can make students and staff feel constantly monitored, eroding trust and fostering fear rather than cooperation.
• Control over behavior: If the goal is not just safety but also to enforce conformity and restrict expression, it resembles authoritarian control.
• Lack of consent or consultation: When schools implement surveillance without engaging parents, students, or teachers, it reflects a top-down, authoritarian approach.

Arguments that it does not necessarily mean authoritarianism:​

• Safety and protection: Cameras can help deter bullying, theft, vandalism, or violence, and provide evidence when incidents occur. This aligns more with safeguarding rather than controlling.
• Accountability: They can protect both students and teachers from false accusations.
• Proportionality and transparency: If CCTV use is limited to common areas (not classrooms, toilets, or private spaces) and there are clear policies on data use, it’s more a matter of security management than authoritarianism.

The Key Question:​

• Is surveillance a tool for safety or a tool for control?
  If it’s about protecting students while respecting privacy and freedom, it’s not authoritarian. But if it’s about imposing discipline through fear and constant oversight, then it can be seen as authoritarian

I guess Stephanie made it very clear on her rationale for CCTVs just like the good old days of GVGT and GPGT. Does GVGT and GPGT sounds authoritarian for you?

It seems you are focusing on the wrong thing that I said.

What my main point is that the One Size Fit All approach to school rules that you are pushing for is lazy authoritarianism essentially ala my way or the highway.

What you are throwing out are red herrings by conflating Authoritarianism to normal law & punishments.

 

[Eliwood]

What Stephanie is proposing are new pathways to tackling this issue where the response to bullying can be a bit slow on the school authority side.

In an ideal situation, MOE could do the investigations if required. However, the world is not that ideal all the time so she proposed another solution which is for the MOE to oversee such investigations by the school authorities AKA demand for updates to the investigation of the case and asking how the conclusion of the case is derived.

It is no different from the Chief Prosecutor or even the AG asking the State Prosecuting Officer for a case how the case is being build and what is the conclusion of the job done. This whole process sounds authoritarian to you? Or is it just a foreign concept called accountability that your fellow party members never heard of?

As for heightened surveillance with more CCTV be considered as authoritarianism , I take lead from LW and work with AI.

The Question I asked AI : Does installing more CCTVs in Schools be considered as authoritarianism?

Spoiler

Answer :
That’s a really thoughtful question. Whether installing more CCTVs in schools is considered authoritarianism depends on why they are installed, how they are used, and how transparent the policy is.


Here are a few angles to consider:

Arguments that it can lean toward authoritarianism:​

• Surveillance culture: A large increase in cameras can make students and staff feel constantly monitored, eroding trust and fostering fear rather than cooperation.
• Control over behavior: If the goal is not just safety but also to enforce conformity and restrict expression, it resembles authoritarian control.
• Lack of consent or consultation: When schools implement surveillance without engaging parents, students, or teachers, it reflects a top-down, authoritarian approach.

Arguments that it does not necessarily mean authoritarianism:​

• Safety and protection: Cameras can help deter bullying, theft, vandalism, or violence, and provide evidence when incidents occur. This aligns more with safeguarding rather than controlling.
• Accountability: They can protect both students and teachers from false accusations.
• Proportionality and transparency: If CCTV use is limited to common areas (not classrooms, toilets, or private spaces) and there are clear policies on data use, it’s more a matter of security management than authoritarianism.

The Key Question:​

• Is surveillance a tool for safety or a tool for control?
  If it’s about protecting students while respecting privacy and freedom, it’s not authoritarian. But if it’s about imposing discipline through fear and constant oversight, then it can be seen as authoritarian

I guess Stephanie made it very clear on her rationale for CCTVs just like the good old days of GVGT and GPGT. Does GVGT and GPGT sounds authoritarian for you?

It seems you are focusing on the wrong thing that I said.

What my main point is that the One Size Fit All approach to school rules that you are pushing for is lazy authoritarianism essentially ala my way or the highway.

What you are throwing out are red herrings by conflating Authoritarianism to normal law & punishments.

Suggest u run whether having clear guidelines on what behaviour constitutes bullying, and punishment for such behaviour is authoritarian as well lol..

I also dunno what ur one size fits all mean. U mean the same bullying shd not be punished in the same manner?

What kind of punishment for bullying are you thinking of beyond "normal law & punishments"? Why cant the prescribed punishment be "normal punishment"?

 

[krikering]

What Stephanie is proposing are new pathways to tackling this issue where the response to bullying can be a bit slow on the school authority side.

In an ideal situation, MOE could do the investigations if required. However, the world is not that ideal all the time so she proposed another solution which is for the MOE to oversee such investigations by the school authorities AKA demand for updates to the investigation of the case and asking how the conclusion of the case is derived.

It is no different from the Chief Prosecutor or even the AG asking the State Prosecuting Officer for a case how the case is being build and what is the conclusion of the job done. This whole process sounds authoritarian to you? Or is it just a foreign concept called accountability that your fellow party members never heard of?

As for heightened surveillance with more CCTV be considered as authoritarianism , I take lead from LW and work with AI.

The Question I asked AI : Does installing more CCTVs in Schools be considered as authoritarianism?

Spoiler

Answer :
That’s a really thoughtful question. Whether installing more CCTVs in schools is considered authoritarianism depends on why they are installed, how they are used, and how transparent the policy is.


Here are a few angles to consider:

Arguments that it can lean toward authoritarianism:​

• Surveillance culture: A large increase in cameras can make students and staff feel constantly monitored, eroding trust and fostering fear rather than cooperation.
• Control over behavior: If the goal is not just safety but also to enforce conformity and restrict expression, it resembles authoritarian control.
• Lack of consent or consultation: When schools implement surveillance without engaging parents, students, or teachers, it reflects a top-down, authoritarian approach.

Arguments that it does not necessarily mean authoritarianism:​

• Safety and protection: Cameras can help deter bullying, theft, vandalism, or violence, and provide evidence when incidents occur. This aligns more with safeguarding rather than controlling.
• Accountability: They can protect both students and teachers from false accusations.
• Proportionality and transparency: If CCTV use is limited to common areas (not classrooms, toilets, or private spaces) and there are clear policies on data use, it’s more a matter of security management than authoritarianism.

The Key Question:​

• Is surveillance a tool for safety or a tool for control?
  If it’s about protecting students while respecting privacy and freedom, it’s not authoritarian. But if it’s about imposing discipline through fear and constant oversight, then it can be seen as authoritarian

I guess Stephanie made it very clear on her rationale for CCTVs just like the good old days of GVGT and GPGT. Does GVGT and GPGT sounds authoritarian for you?

It seems you are focusing on the wrong thing that I said.

What my main point is that the One Size Fit All approach to school rules that you are pushing for is lazy authoritarianism essentially ala my way or the highway.

What you are throwing out are red herrings by conflating Authoritarianism to normal law & punishments.

Precisely back then during COVID, tracetogether can practically spy on everyone's movements, etc. liao.

That means they only interested in monitoring if it Politically benefits them.

For primary and secondary school, maybe to them there is no political benefits in doing so and more hindrance thus they decide to not do so.

Every corners of our little red dot is already being severely monitored with the countless CCTVs all around.

What different is it for MOE to monitor, especially given that they are young children which need to be given guidance unlike a proper fully-grown adult?

 

[charleslee1989]

Suggest u run whether having clear guidelines on what behaviour constitutes bullying, and punishment for such behaviour is authoritarian as well lol..

I also dunno what ur one size fits all mean. U mean the same bullying shd not be punished in the same manner?

What kind of punishment for bullying are you thinking of beyond "normal law & punishments"? Why cant the prescribed punishment be "normal punishment"?

Bullying comes in many forms and in different severity. If a kid puts chewing gum on the hair of a kid once , is that a prank or bullying?

If a few rich kids goes up to another poorer kid and verbally sneers at the poorer kid for being poor publicly, that's bullying in my books but some may not see it as so.

If some kids purposely go and irritate your kid by throwing small paper balls, that could bullying in your books but other may see it as a childish prank.

You wanted clear guidelines on definition and punishment for bullying which is commendable but how are you going to list them all? Like how? What if you miss out on some and it becomes a loophole? Sometimes, ambiguity allows the flexibility to whack just like how some Acts and Laws are worded in law.

Assuming you somehow got an epiphany from kami-sama and managed to list them all, what you suggested is to class them under the bullying offence and punish them under bullying offence.

It is good given your strong stand against bullying, I would think your suggested punishments' severity is at least detention and above?

So detention for throwing paper balls and community service or even public caning for both verbal sneering and putting chewing gum on hair,yes?

 

[runforyourlife]

It ...all began. ...from the strawberry generation........ Society say parent cannot whack children even if they r brat......scare they got scar later .....then school cannot whack ...because parent will complain........everybody cannot whack the brat ....say can talk nicely teach them love your neighbor love your family love your country love the world...........simi Sai.....now the brat becoming monster.......then parent kpkb again.... say simi lousy school......duno how to teach.......Not all students can be taught.....All school teach the same thing teach ppl to be good....but not all student learn.......some can learn know how to listen ........some simply just waiting to be whack......either now or later in life.....

Parents just want to find someone to blame.

That's the insecure millinials whom are parents.

In the workplace they also blame everybody else but themselves.

 

[Eliwood]

Bullying comes in many forms and in different severity. If a kid puts chewing gum on the hair of a kid once , is that a prank or bullying?

If a few rich kids goes up to another poorer kid and verbally sneers at the poorer kid for being poor publicly, that's bullying in my books but some may not see it as so.

If some kids purposely go and irritate your kid by throwing small paper balls, that could bullying in your books but other may see it as a childish prank.

You wanted clear guidelines on definition and punishment for bullying which is commendable but how are you going to list them all? Like how? What if you miss out on some and it becomes a loophole? Sometimes, ambiguity allows the flexibility to whack just like how some Acts and Laws are worded in law.

Assuming you somehow got an epiphany from kami-sama and managed to list them all, what you suggested is to class them under the bullying offence and punish them under bullying offence.

It is good given your strong stand against bullying, I would think your suggested punishments' severity is at least detention and above?

So detention for throwing paper balls and community service for both verbal sneering and putting chewing gum on hair,yes?

I find it weird that u acknowledge bullying is a complex matter yet u think it is a better idea to let the various teachers in 100+ schools each decide how they want to handle it. This allows for even more loopholes right especially since u also mentioned different ppl have different idea of what constitutes bullying. Im sure this applies to whoever u think shd be carrying out the unclear guidelines right now.

U also seem to have a very dogmatic view that guidelines and rules must be decided top down instead of a bottom up consultative manner that calibrates and standardise the existing varied approaches.

U dun need an epiphany. U just need to ask all the schools to set out their practices, then calibrate the guidelines from there. Parents and other stakeholders can be consulted too.

Also, the guidelines can be drafted to allow deviation with proper justifications, and the teachers that deviated have to explain if asked.

 

[charleslee1989]

Parents just want to find someone to blame.

That's the insecure millinials whom are parents.

In the workplace they also blame everybody else but themselves.

Then how can we solve this leh??

 

[runforyourlife]

Then how can we solve this leh??

Point of no return already

 

[Eliwood]

Stephanie zehzeh angry liao!

Lol in the end too eager to judge and condemn just because of a convenient narrative.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/sin...=internal_sharetool_androidphone_20082025_cna

Thread 'Timeline of Events (as stated by MOE) Regarding Sengkang green primary school' https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...arding-sengkang-green-primary-school.7152196/