6% Annual Yield

OngHuatHuat

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It is not 7 % per annum based on price performance.

I repeat again:

2003 : 1 sgd
Feb 2019 : 1.70 sgd

Around 3.5 % per annum only.
And that was also due to recent surge in stock market that lead to price increase for this unit trust.

If you think First State is lying in their fund factsheet, pls complain MAS! :s13: Or maybe you can study the product characteristics more carefully.

By the way, the factsheet says 7.0% p.a. since inception, that means even going through the GFC, it was able to survive and recover well.... hats off to the fund managers.
 

OngHuatHuat

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It's just the 10 year window starting right at the bottom of the subprime crisis stock market crash. All equities will be doing supremely well within this 10 year window, e.g. S&P500 had annualized 15.00% for the 10 years ending 31 Jan.

When it comes to unit trusts, you can always find some that did particularly well and many that did not do as well. You don't know whether the unit trust you choose will do well or not as past performance is no indicator of the future. The best you can do is to keep your costs as low as possible.


Yes, this is what I intend to say.



You put the money in since inception, you get a lousier result, much lousier indeed.
 

BBCWatcher

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Currently, USD fixed deposits are offering high yield, so I am guessing USD is going to fall, is this logical? This is why I converted all my USD to SGD in interactive brokers and plan to open SGD Fixed deposit.
U.S. dollar fixed deposits are not, in fact, offering a “high” yield. Higher, yes, but they’re coming off record lows.

According to DepositAccounts.com right now, the highest one year Certificate of Deposit (without strings attached, such as age limits or co-deposit requirements) is paying 2.85% APY. Please note that interest is taxable as ordinary income in the United States (and to U.S. persons), and that’s a pre-tax figure. For somebody in a middle tax bracket — the 24% tax bracket, for example — and living in a state with no state income tax, that’s equivalent to about 2.17% APY. Singapore’s highest 12 month fixed deposit rate is currently 1.98% (ICBC, with one minor string attached). Big difference? No.

You forgot about the tax adjustment, even if you looked at the headline rates, didn’t you? Well, now you know. If you’re going to gamble like this (not recommended), a lot more homework is required.

CD interest is NOT taxable if the CD is held by a non-U.S. person (and not effectively connected to the U.S.), but the overwhelming majority of CDs are held by U.S. persons — something like 99%, I’d guess, since it’s really, really hard for non-U.S. persons to open CDs. So the tax correction is fair, and 24% is a pretty conservative correction.

I am terrible timer, so I understand markets can continue chugging up from here too. It is just that I don't want to risk it.
However, there’s big risk in hoarding Singapore dollars when your retirement won’t involve Singapore dollars. You can assume a lower risk (and lower yielding) posture if you wish — not a recommendation — but exclusively or predominantly in Singapore dollar denominated instruments doesn’t seem to make sense to me in your situation.

I am just wondering at what point US record debt load and it's deficits will hit it's ratings.
The U.S. doesn’t have a record debt load. The U.S. federal government is currently running large fiscal deficits, but it also has one of the lowest (if not the lowest) total tax burdens in the OECD and tremendous untapped taxing power. Financial markets are, correctly, taking all that into account.

Japan has a far bigger debt load than any country in the world, and (contrary to popular belief) a substantial chunk of it is foreign held. It also has a stable currency and ridiculously low interest rates, and it’s the third largest economy in the world.

If you want to advance some debt load theory, you have to explain Japan.

2) Stocks rise in the longer term because of earnings potential and valuations. Not so much on FX movements. Short to mid term wise probably they have a relationship.
And bear in mind that Wall Street is simply a place to plant a flag, an excellent one. The fact a stock is listed and traded in New York, and quoted in U.S. dollars, has no bearing whatsoever on where it conducts its business, makes its sales, and generates its profits — and in what currency(ies). We live in a world with mostly free movement of capital, including to/from Wall Street. Wall Street is already substantially decoupled from “Main Street” (the real U.S. economy) and getting more decoupled every day. Of course, the U.S. is the world’s largest economy, and thus it has an outsized effect on the rest of the world. The Global Financial Crisis demonstrated that fact quite well.

If you are a not a trader, I don't think it's necessary to speculate the impact of FX on stocks which are denominated in major currencies.
Right. Equities are not currencies. You could list and quote General Electric in South African rand, for example, and that still wouldn’t make GE stock comparable to rand correlated instruments, such as rand-denominated bonds.

if USD falls , US stock market goes up.
Other things being equal, exactly. It’s the same with, for example, oil. Oil is listed, quoted, and traded in U.S. dollars, but if the U.S. dollar falls then oil prices rise to compensate. Oil is not U.S. dollars either.

OK, it’s a little more complicated because other things are not quite equal. A currency moves for certain reasons, and those reasons can have other impacts. Also, the U.S. both produces and consumes a lot of oil, so wobbles in the U.S. dollar can affect oil production and oil demand (both).
 
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Urbanchap

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The dividends are reinvested to form part of the unit price.
Reason why limster doesn’t question this was because he knows exactly what was going on with the dividend, but obviously you are not. 🙄

Total return = price return + dividend yield

Doesn't mean u reinvest the dividend, it "disappears" into the price.
 

OngHuatHuat

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MVa7rTU.jpg


In comparison to First State Bridge, another unit trust performance is much better.

Launch Price : 0.96 in 1993
Current Price : 3.7689 in 2019

Annualised return slightly more than 6%
 

OngHuatHuat

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Total return = price return + dividend yield

Doesn't mean u reinvest the dividend, it "disappears" into the price.


You should post your reply to that Mike.


I already mentioned in my post the dividends form part of the NAV. :vijayadmin:
 

OngHuatHuat

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Yes, that works. Pick an economy/currency with a higher inflation rate, and a 6% nominal yield is much easier. :D


Of course 6% yield in SGD terms.
Some currencies may not depreciate against sgd linearly.

In fact, I have a feeling that SGD already peaked against certain currency, so I am actually exploring other options.



Another method is to diversify into different equities and hopefully the total return will be more than 6% annually. The tough part is to select correct equities and that requires timing.
 
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OngHuatHuat

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KcYtPHK.jpg


The factsheet is correct. 7% p.a. since inception as of 31 Jan 2019 (excluding the recent stock price surge)

I find it hard to believe that you think that you are right and the factsheet is wrong. Like I said, pls complain to MAS if you think the factsheet is lying :s13:




Guy, FEEs:vijayadmin: fund manager collects management fees every year.

the return also excludes the sales charge when you purchased the fund, which means actual return should be even lower.
 
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limster

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Guy, FEEs:vijayadmin: fund manager collects management fees every year.

the return also excludes the sales charge when you purchased the fund, which means actual return should be even lower.

You mean you pay sales charge for your fund? where have you been? :s13::s13::s13:
 

limster

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The dividends are reinvested to form part of the unit price.

Total return = price return + dividend yield

Doesn't mean u reinvest the dividend, it "disappears" into the price.

its good to see someone actually understands how dividend reinvestment works. its actually the same as reinvesting dividends in STI ETF

When STI ETF declares dividends, if you reinvest the dividends, the STI ETF price doesn't go up. Instead, you get more units of the ETF

When Unit trust declares dividends, if you reinvest the dividends, it doesn't disappear into the price, instead you get more units of the unit trust.

If yyhwin don't understand this, he needs to read more investment books? What i find amazing is that he still thinks the factsheet is wrong and that he is right.
 

OngHuatHuat

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Okay fine.

I misunderstood then.
You are also correct to say that I need to read more investment books. My knowledge in this financial world is not enough.



its good to see someone actually understands how dividend reinvestment works. its actually the same as reinvesting dividends in STI ETF

When STI ETF declares dividends, if you reinvest the dividends, the STI ETF price doesn't go up. Instead, you get more units of the ETF

When Unit trust declares dividends, if you reinvest the dividends, it doesn't disappear into the price, instead you get more units of the unit trust.

If yyhwin don't understand this, he needs to read more investment books? What i find amazing is that he still thinks the factsheet is wrong and that he is right.
 
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limster

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Means you don’t pay sales charge for your funds?
And managers don’t collect management fees?

the return published on the factsheet is nett of management fees. I hope you don't think that the 7.0% p.a. since inception is before the manager deducts the fees?

poems and fsm have not been charging sales charge for the longest time. like i said, where have you been?
 

BBCWatcher

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Means you don’t pay sales charge for your funds?
And managers don’t collect management fees?

Then how do you explain how come the annualized return is so small compared to your screenshot?
I’ll step in here.

The unit trust manager’s reported performance results will typically include the standard sales charge (a.k.a. “load”). However, if you purchase the unit trust through a zero sales charge platform (e.g. POEMS, DollarDex, FSM One), you don’t pay the sales charge. Your personal total return results will thus be better than the unit trust manager’s reported results, other things being equal.

Other things are rarely equal, though. Almost nobody buys $X of a unit trust on a one-time basis, reinvests the dividends, and does nothing else. Most people earn some sort of income from work, and they have some monthly savings to deploy. The official reported results rarely include that sort of scenario (regular monthly or quarterly savings inflow, plus dividend reinvestment) — almost never.
 

OngHuatHuat

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Okay.
This 7 % per annum is good enough.

the return published on the factsheet is nett of management fees. I hope you don't think that the 7.0% p.a. since inception is before the manager deducts the fees?

poems and fsm have not been charging sales charge for the longest time. like i said, where have you been?
 

OngHuatHuat

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All right, perhaps it is time for me to look into unit trust.

I’ll step in here.

The unit trust manager’s reported performance results will typically include the standard sales charge (a.k.a. “load”). However, if you purchase the unit trust through a zero sales charge platform (e.g. POEMS, DollarDex, FSM One), you don’t pay the sales charge. Your personal total return results will thus be better than the unit trust manager’s reported results, other things being equal.

Other things are rarely equal, though. Almost nobody buys $X of a unit trust on a one-time basis, reinvests the dividends, and does nothing else. Most people earn some sort of income from work, and they have some monthly savings to deploy. The official reported results rarely include that sort of scenario (regular monthly or quarterly savings inflow, plus dividend reinvestment) — almost never.
 

BBCWatcher

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All right, perhaps it is time for me to look into unit trust.
Or not. The unit trust is reporting past performance, and past performance is not indicative of future results. The unit trust definitely charges ongoing management fees, and that part is baked in, for sure. (Unless the unit trust manager suddenly decides to reduce the fee.)

In recent years unit trusts have gotten somewhat more competitive, and that’s good. But there are still a lot of turkeys out there.

There’s nothing inherent to unit trusts that requires them to be more expensive than peer exchange-traded funds (ETFs). That’s the current situation in Singapore, so “ETF” is shorthand for “cheaper unit trust.” But outside Singapore it’s sometimes the reverse. For example, Fidelity in the United States started offering a pair of mutual funds (U.S. equivalent to unit trusts), FZILX and FZROX, in 2018. FZILX and FZROX have zero management fees, zero custodial fees, zero redemption fees, zero sales charges, and can be purchased in increments of US$1 with an opening purchase of US$1. Yes, seriously, it’s that good, no jokes and no gimmicks. (And no salespeople standing in front of bouncy castles and no “free” shopping vouchers, either. Thank goodness.) And with automatic dividend reinvestment and automatic monthly buying from your U.S. bank or U.S. credit union account, if you wish. How does Fidelity make any money on these funds? Well, they don’t, not really. They might make a very tiny bit of money on the standard “float” since mutual funds are bought/sold/quoted daily, but it ain’t much and certainly not something investors should worry about. Primarily they offer these funds as loss leaders and hope you’ll do more business with Fidelity, and you probably will since they offer some other excellent products, like their no annual fee credit card. Sorry, these particular mutual funds are not easily available to non-U.S. persons, and they’re not tax appropriate for non-U.S. persons anyway.
 

limster

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its very true that regular DCA may not work for narrowly focused unit trusts that depend on high beta to generate returns. For that type of unit trust, you may need to do some market timing to buy. regular DCA into a 100% China Unit Trust might not be a good idea!

But a balanced fund that can rebalance by selling bonds and buying equities when markets are down, and selling equities by buying bonds when markets are up, might provide less volatile price movements that make market timing less important and DCA more feasible.

But whatever you pick, I don't believe in going 'all-in' and put everything into one product, asset allocation and diversification always a good idea! I hold stocks, ETFs, unit trusts, bonds, and life policies.
 

OngHuatHuat

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I am constructing a model on how to achieve 6-7 % yield without loss of capital or minimal loss of capital currently.
Thanks for the information.

If can find 10 % yield means my asset will be doubled every 7 years, like that I will become a multimillionaire at the age of 40 plus.

Or not. The unit trust is reporting past performance, and past performance is not indicative of future results. The unit trust definitely charges ongoing management fees.
 

K|muRa^84

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are there any unit trusts that are similar to First State Bridge (50:50 equities-bonds) but which focus on developed markets outside of Asia?
 
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