Air purifier? - Part 2

[WussRedXLi]

If I wear 3M PM2.5 haze mask first, then spray insect repellent. After about 20mins the repellent smell mostly disappear already then remove mask. Does it prevent me inhaling VOC?

The thing about N95 masks without activated charcoal would not adsorb VOCs, so don't have to wear a mask.

Anyway, there isn't heckloads of VOCs from the typical insect repellents out there.....so can relax. Do read the instructions, it does say not to inhale the mists directly. So apply in your living room + stay upwind, let it air for a while then go into the room. But seriously i don't see why is there a need for a applied-on repellent in an aircon room + AP.

If you are afraid of mosquitoes hiding in the room, why not smoke out the room with 2 pieces of those Baygon plug-in aerial repellents using liquid prallethrin first? It needs about 30 mins to warm up and build a plume.....so smoke it out for a good 60 mins, then take the aerial repellent out of the room, if there is decent wind then the aerial repellent would be cleared in a minute or two, very fast. Close the doors and windows, switch on AC and AP and enjoy the night.

If I apply insect repellent on my skin, and the product say it has repellent protection effect for 6 hours, does it means I have VOC on my skin for 6 hours and I should not be in a air con room (enclosed room no open windows) for 6 hours?

Sort of, but i think the amount of whatever VOC is present would not be very high after the initial spike.

Actually if you have an aircon with air quality sensor or an AP like the Samsung AX40, you will see what i mean. Apply the repellent in the room, see the Samsung AX40 shoot from light blue to red. Wear the repellent in the living room, wait for 1-2 hrs, enter the room. It might not have a lot of VOCs then to trigger the lights.

But i am pretty certain that applying a lotion or spray-on insect repellent in the room is not a good idea. You mentioned 6-hrs, so i think that would be DEET, Picaridin or Oil of lemon eucalyptus?

 

[WussRedXLi]

Ok, personal experience. If i use even 2-3 drops of antiseptic handrub (very little only) in the room with the Samsung AX40, you know those 70% ethanol and 0.5% chlorhexidine gluconate, the AP's LED would shoot to orange or red. It's pretty sensitive. If yours is Sharp, or Panasonic aircon, you'd see it too. Coz even a small fart would trigger something.

You don't need a specialised VOC meter.

My Sawyer 20% picaridin lotion just arrived.... i try it for you later lah.

 

[kandinsky]

If I apply insect repellent on my skin, and the product say it has repellent protection effect for 6 hours, does it means I have VOC on my skin for 6 hours and I should not be in a air con room (enclosed room no open windows) for 6 hours?

Our largest organ, the skin produces VOCs. E.g., Your sweat, your own body scent, odor, etc. So technically you already have VOCs on your skin 24/7 and you are inhaling it all day Are you going to avoid your own skin??

Skin is the largest human organ, accounting for approximately 12-15% of body weight.1 Volatile organic compounds (VOCs) emanating from skin contribute to a person’s body odour, and may convey important information about metabolic processes. VOCs from skin derive from eccrine, sebaceous and apocrine gland secretions and their interactions with resident skin bacteria. These glands are distributed differently across the body; hence different regions of the body have different VOC profiles, and thus different odours.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2574753/

My impression is that you seem to have latched onto this acronym 'VOC' without understanding what it means? You need to understand again that "VOC" doesn't = harmful all the time.

Just like the word 'radiation'. Oh no, scary. Chernobyl. Atomic bomb, etc. But there's harmless radiation and harmful radiation. Sunlight is a form of radiation. Are you going to avoid the sun? It can be good for us (vit D), it can be harmful due to overexposure.

Do you have reason to believe that the VOCs from this specific repellent you are referencing are hazardous? Which VOCs are these? Which studies? Hazardous at what levels of exposure? If you can provide some more detail, maybe we have something concrete to discuss as we can try to research and find out more. Otherwise you might as well be scared of your own skin cos of the VOCs it produces

 

[WussRedXLi]

The last time i quick googled on this VOC thingy, i don't think there is a PEL / Permissible Exposure Limit for VOC or TVOC (Total Volatile Organic Compound) from the various bodies. Coz each particlular VOC has its own PEL.

Eg in this link it's summarised quite nicely...
http://www.critical-environment.com...e-breathing-volatile-organic-compound-2-of-4/


But there are general guidelines for TVOC exposure

TVOC Symptoms
< 200 µg/m3 No irritation or discomfort expected
200 – 3,000 µg/m3 Irritation and discomfort may be possible
3,000 – 25,000 µg/m3 Discomfort expected and headache possible
> 25,000 µg/m3 Toxic range where other neurotoxic effects may occur
Source from Aerias


Anyway, I'll get the videos done for the insect repellents and upload on youtube soon....

There are actually some repellents, eg Tiger Balm spray (not the aerosolised one) that contains 3% camphor. Some chest rubs (Balms) contain 11%, some contain 25% camphor. Camphor is not recommended to be used for children specifically. It can be ingested (can be lethal quite quickly with just a few grams, medical emergency with just pin sized), absorbed through the skin or inhaled in.

I'll post a copy of my whole post that i posted in other threads.... see below.

PS. Of coz, if you have infants/toddlers, then it'd be more of a critical aspect then.

 

[WussRedXLi]

Just posting here as well as there are parents + current zika/dengue situation.

Not smoked out by haze, but currently smoked out with these natural based insect repellents in the MRT etc.

Important information : Insect repellents containing Camphor

They are not found in those containing DEET, Picaridin, IR3535, Oil of Lemon eucalyptus. Don't worry.


DO NOT use for nursing/pregnant women and those below age 2 before consulting your doctor


Eg Tiger Balm Insect Repellent Spray

Similar products include Vicks Vapo rub (gave similar warnings), Tiger Balm Soft, zambuk etc. Was discussed earlier in the thread by some.
Some balms are even 11%, 25% Camphor even.


Case study of 2 month old getting hepatoxicity (liver) after just 3 times daily chest rub for 5 days. This is not even an ingestion case

The US Poisons Centre received close to 11k poison cases and 8.8k were children (some recent year).


For insect repellent application, you are applying on the hands, feet, neck, around the ears, quite a large area. A small concentration but over a large area.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/410566_3

Camphor is marketed in over-the-counter cold remedies for its mild local anesthetic and rubefacient effects.

Camphor can easily cross the skin, the mucous membranes, and the placental barrier, and it can cause significant hepatoneurotoxicity.[1,2,4,6,8-10] Ingestion of even small doses of camphor can cause fatal poisoning in small children.[3] It produces gastrointestinal and central nervous system irritation after toxic ingestion. Nausea and vomiting followed by agitation and seizures are common. Hepatotoxicity may range anywhere from a mild elevation of liver function test values to hepatic encephalopathy.

The use of cold remedies in small children is of questionable benefit, and such agents may be potentially dangerous. Even if the package inserts of camphor-containing cold remedies do not recommend their use in children less than 2 years of age, these remedies are widely available to a general public unaware of their toxicity. Health professionals should be aware of camphor toxicity in young children and warn the parents about their potential dangers.



As written on 5th Sep

Be careful of overuse of things with camphor with toddlers/infants due to risk of unintended ingestion.

Zambuk, Vicks, Tiger Balm. If you have kids, you might have gotten advice from your pediatrician not to use too much of these stuff on them. Old folks simply love to use on everything from coughs to colds to tummy aches. Sniffing is fine coz Vicks vaporub is not high in camphor content. But some of the other rubs (don't wannt say brand) is pretty high. But a just tiny bit of accidental ingestion - gone. Things like seizure occurs in minutes.

I just googled, Vicks vapour rub is just like 4%. There are stuff out there with 11% even. Just the size of a sugar grain of accidental ingestion by the young kid is enough to make it a medical emergency.
The other stuff that we see here (even the few CDC approved repellents stuff - the so-called BAD stuff) are not as toxic when ingested at the same amount.

And those with kids would know kids < 2 years old love to put things into their mouths rather automatically. The risk of unintentional exposure seems to be higher than usual it seems, if you were to rub down the whole body for mozzie repellent.

Just googled, the US poison centre receives > 10k cases of camphor poisoning annually.

 

[super365]

The thing about N95 masks without activated charcoal would not adsorb VOCs, so don't have to wear a mask.

Anyway, there isn't heckloads of VOCs from the typical insect repellents out there.....so can relax. Do read the instructions, it does say not to inhale the mists directly. So apply in your living room + stay upwind, let it air for a while then go into the room. But seriously i don't see why is there a need for a applied-on repellent in an aircon room + AP.

If you are afraid of mosquitoes hiding in the room, why not smoke out the room with 2 pieces of those Baygon plug-in aerial repellents using liquid prallethrin first? It needs about 30 mins to warm up and build a plume.....so smoke it out for a good 60 mins, then take the aerial repellent out of the room, if there is decent wind then the aerial repellent would be cleared in a minute or two, very fast. Close the doors and windows, switch on AC and AP and enjoy the night.





Sort of, but i think the amount of whatever VOC is present would not be very high after the initial spike.

Actually if you have an aircon with air quality sensor or an AP like the Samsung AX40, you will see what i mean. Apply the repellent in the room, see the Samsung AX40 shoot from light blue to red. Wear the repellent in the living room, wait for 1-2 hrs, enter the room. It might not have a lot of VOCs then to trigger the lights.

But i am pretty certain that applying a lotion or spray-on insect repellent in the room is not a good idea. You mentioned 6-hrs, so i think that would be DEET, Picaridin or Oil of lemon eucalyptus?

Baygon plug-in aerial repellents using liquid prallethrin is it cannot be used when people is in the same room?

I apply repellent before going out, then will go into air con room.

I am using Sawyer Picaridin spray pump. Apply morning and before sleep. Sleep with open windows and fan.

Previously using Tiger Balm mosquito repellent aerosol. It has a caution "do not use in confined space".

 

[WussRedXLi]

Got it up liao...

It's a very basic test that i just anyhow quickly do after i reached home, pls ignore the levels.....and anyway i don't have time to do the detail ones like rubbing my body full of DEET / Picaridin and then measure with the TVOC meter with airflow over my body etc.

But generally, i don't know what's contained in the Picaridin lotion. Coz it's 20% picaridin (safe) and 80% other ingredients. Could just be a generic lotion, so it could be safe. The DEET (also safe) surprisingly is good. Nothing that can be detected.

As for the duration, well if you and your wife are expecting to be "bathed" in insect repellent for the next few months coz you are in a dengue/zika hotspot, then maybe it's better to consider my above approach of smoking out the mosquito (if any) from the room first.


That said, i believe the natural insect repellents with citronella oil and other stuff are very smell heavy, they would definitely "use up" the activated charcoal portion quite fast, and also impart a certain smell to the HEPA.

The Sawyer picaridin immediately turned from white to green, then 4 seconds later orange, 1 second later red.

 

[WussRedXLi]

Baygon plug-in aerial repellents using liquid prallethrin is it cannot be used when people is in the same room?

I apply repellent before going out, then will go into air con room.

I am using Sawyer Picaridin spray pump. Apply morning and before sleep. Sleep with open windows and fan.

Previously using Tiger Balm mosquito repellent aerosol. It has a caution "do not use in confined space".

The liquid prallethin plug-in repellents can be used when pax are in the room. It's like mosquito coil (which is worse, coz PM2.5 and stuff).

But do not use that in the room with the AP with the doors/windows closed.
(1) prallethrin would build up continuously (2) The mosquito siam where?

If your room is quite windy (eg high floor units, unblocked with a good facing to the monsoon winds etc), then close the windows and leave a small gap....if not the plume would be blown away. ie cannot build up insect repellent concentration.


Yes, the natural repellents are quite "smelly". If it contains camphor, then caution must be used for pregnant, nursing women + young kids.

 

[WussRedXLi]

The above vids is of coz for lotions. For aerosols, it's another story. Got propellant and stuff....

ACtually very difficult to say lah, case by case. Just try to avoid, coz makes no sense to use these stuff in the AC and AP room which is closed up. When you close the windows and doors, it already protects you from external threats, just left the threats that's inside, if there is any in the first place.

 

[WussRedXLi]

Oh btw, the above meter, i took out casing coz i wanted to expose the sensors.

 

[WussRedXLi]

Actually both the DEET and Picaridin both also got smell. So it's not the smell that is triggering both the AX40 and meter. In fact, the DEET lotion got slightly heavier smell.

Ok gotta go out do some biz..... later dudes.

 

[super365]

The liquid prallethin plug-in repellents can be used when pax are in the room. It's like mosquito coil (which is worse, coz PM2.5 and stuff).

But do not use that in the room with the AP with the doors/windows closed.
(1) prallethrin would build up continuously (2) The mosquito siam where?

If your room is quite windy (eg high floor units, unblocked with a good facing to the monsoon winds etc), then close the windows and leave a small gap....if not the plume would be blown away. ie cannot build up insect repellent concentration.


Yes, the natural repellents are quite "smelly". If it contains camphor, then caution must be used for pregnant, nursing women + young kids.

Does the liquid prallethin plug-in repellents have smell? If you inhale it is it unhealthy?

 

[WussRedXLi]

Does the liquid prallethin plug-in repellents have smell? If you inhale it is it unhealthy?

Not unhealthy if inhaled and used as instructed. But do not use in 100% enclosed room for long hours.

 

[kandinsky]

yeah, instructions from baygon for their Prallethrin diffuser product states "Use in well-ventilated area"

 

[tildveryn]

its the charcoal component that will absorb smell... HEPA doesnt...

 

[Gixxerfied]

Does the liquid prallethin plug-in repellents have smell? If you inhale it is it unhealthy?

It is advise to leave some ventilation when u switch that on..

And i dont really advise switching that on during slp even with window open...I usually switch on when i'm out for work and switch it off when i'm home.

 

[super365]

Is prallethin proven to work?

"The World Health Organization published in 2004 that "Prallethrin is of low mammalian toxicity, with no evidence of carcinogenicity" and "is very toxic to bees and fish but of low toxicity to birds."" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prallethrin

Is the best prallethin repellent the Baygon Liquid Electric Repeller?
I only hear this brand mentioned in threads.

Copy and pasted the product info below:
Baygon Liquid Electric Repeller
Product Description
Contains an advanced formula that is evenly released into the air, repelling mosquitoes in your room as well as those that try to enter
Special Remarks: Has a unique vapourising system which protects your family against dengue mosquitos for 30 nights even with open windows despite turning it off.
Ingredients: Prallethrin (1.6%), Inert (98.4%)
Storage: 1. Store in the closed, original container in a cool dry place out of children's reach and away from food
2. Do not store in direct sunlight
3. Keep refill in upright position at all times

 

[super365]

After turning off the prallethrin, how long does it still have the repellent effect?

Seems like most of you turn on when nobody is around so I assume it will still have effect for some time after turning off.

Not sure why the product says turn off still work, it says "Special Remarks: Has a unique vapourising system which protects your family against dengue mosquitos for 30 nights even with open windows despite turning it off."

 

[WussRedXLi]

Is prallethin proven to work?

"The World Health Organization published in 2004 that "Prallethrin is of low mammalian toxicity, with no evidence of carcinogenicity" and "is very toxic to bees and fish but of low toxicity to birds."" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prallethrin

Is the best prallethin repellent the Baygon Liquid Electric Repeller?
I only hear this brand mentioned in threads.

Prallethrin/Allethrin is very effective vs insects. It's a type of pyrethriods insecticide.
You go see your COMBAT or any insecticide can. Imiprothrin, cyphenothrin etc. All synthetic pyrethriods too. I am sure you have seen how fast it knocks out ants and cockroaches in terms of insecticide spray usage.
It's probably more than good enough.

But i think you mentioned in the other thread that you have a baby right?
It's not safe for them. I have mentioned this a few times before in the other thread (think i'm the only pax who gave this warning over there).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15013076

Mosquito repellent (pyrethroid-based) induced dysfunction of blood-brain barrier permeability in developing brain.

Pyrethroid-based mosquito repellents (MR) are commonly used to protect humans against mosquito vector. New born babies and children are often exposed to pyrethroids for long periods by the use of liquid vaporizers. Occupational and experimental studies indicate that pyrethroids can cause clinical, biochemical and neurological changes, and that exposure to pyrethroids during organogenesis and early developmental period is especially harmful. The neurotoxicity caused by MR has aroused concern among public regarding their use. In the present study, the effect of exposure of rat pups during early developmental stages to a pyrethroid-based MR (allethrin, 3.6% w/v, 8h per day through inhalation) on blood-brain barrier (BBB) permeability was investigated. Sodium fluororescein (SF) and Evan's blue (EB) were used as micromolecular and macromolecular tracers, respectively. Exposure during prenatal (gestation days 1-20), postnatal (PND1-30) and perinatal (gestation days 1-20 + PND1-30) periods showed significant increase in the brain uptake index (BUI) of SF by 54% (P < 0.01), 70% (P < 0.01), 79% (P < 0.01), respectively. This increase persisted (68%, P < 0.01) even 1 week after withdrawal of exposure (as assessed on PND37). EB did not exhibit significant change in BBB permeability in any of the group. The results suggest that MR inhalation during early prenatal/postnatal/perinatal life may have adverse effects on infants leading to central nervous system (CNS) abnormalities, if a mechanism operates in humans similar to that in rat pups.

 

[WussRedXLi]

So like i said earlier, what you can do is to smoke them out......air the room(s), then close doors and windows.

Either that or invest in a mosquito screen for the windows.

But note, if you do not manage to kill the mozzies and only drive them out of the room, they would still bite you/the kids when you go out of the room the next day. So to fix the issue, you'd need to lure + trap/kill the biggers out there ultimately. Repelling them is a quick fix only.

Simply put, no kill no mosquito corpse (preferably corpse with blood when squeezed) no good night sleep. Maybe fly away to neighbour's house, only to return a few nights later? It happened to me and my kids. The bites came in waves one.