Air purifier? - Part 2

WussRedXLi

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Last time got mentioned in old thread. I also used to have running nose and sneezing almost every morning in the past... used to take piriton if worsen.

AP to a certain extend can help, but I believe lifestyle and diet plays an important role.

I think it's more coz you are "pro-grade" in your AP selection liao. I think you might be able to gun a total of > 2000 m3/hr for the whole house if severe haze hits now. lol.
As mentioned, as long as you can get towards that 10 ACH figure, it ought to be pretty alright for most pax unless if one operates a !@$!@# damn dirty aircon FCU and/or the pax is a damn sensitive case.


Dust mite bodies, their feces, mold and its spores all are very comfortably above 1 micron. Even a F9 or H10 "lousy" filter can do wonders. Smallest is actually mold spores @ around 3-4 microns.
Actually dust mite droppings are pretty big, basically 20 microns from google, quite difficult to float. The dust mite bodies are even bigger at over 200 microns.

That means within the dust mite allergen family, they dont exactly float that well.
However, my amateur view is that if there is a small family/colony of dust mite in the FCU (sucked into there), it could be distributed directly to the sensitive pax.


But more importantly, the dirty FCU could cause allergies due to the mold particles as well as the spores, which are a good several times smaller.


Last time i used to put quite a fair bit of emphasis on the AP, but past few years after i got onto the DIY Aircon cleaning bandwagon with a pressure washer + evaporator coil cleaners, i noticed that might be a better way to deal with things. And for last year after phase 1 post **, i also helped others to clean and was offering a more personalised service, most of these pax I did get whatsapped to clean for them again after a few months coz they noticed a good improvement in quality of air and symptoms, simply coz during cleaning i did tell them to look out for such things. It's also sort of my way to get return customers. :) (easier too, coz i know these customers aren't ngeow and won't call you to show them that you have a ACRA biz reg so dont mind so-called "fly by night" pax. In any case i wont be able to fleece them with gas top-ups, simply coz i don't know + dont have any gas top up equipment in any case. LOL! :ROFLMAO:


But still, my trust on APs is still there, esp after finding out the cheap source of filters on TB (which would definitely work for all these allergens as well as original H13 filters)

And for sure the haze risk is always there......in addition to the risk that Johor poses during Feb-Mar dry phase of NE monsoon.


Also, like for eg in the 2015 Super El nino and Haze thread, you and see several grades of sensitivity even within that cohort of sensitive people. I still no issue yet with regards to sneezing but other pax already kaopei kaobu their noses leaking like a leaky faucet. :ROFLMAO: (But then again with haze, my issue is more of headaches rather than rhinitis)
 
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WussRedXLi

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I assume the takeaway is, one simply cannot full blast ap for a while, then drop back to low noise/speed level as the Aircon will reintroduce the allergen back to the room? And it needs at least medium (at least for XM 3H) or higher to counter this?
Side track a bit, Actually how do we know if there are dust mites or not? Do they bite?

Exactly. You can think of the aircon as Haze, but this AC is indoors and a dirty one is reintroducing "pollutants" constantly.
An easy way of thinking about it is that you are operating the air purifier(s) but with the windows fully opened. So it would be a "tug of war".

Now, if your aircon is relatively clean, that means the windows is open but outside air is just PSI 100.
Still might pose an issue for very sensitive pax, but better than if the AC FCU is damn dirty ie PSI 500 to possibly way beyond that for an ultra dirty one.

Now, if your aircon is cleaned like OCD manner like what i DIY clean mine to (ie $80 chemical wash grade wash every 2 months, again, not the cheapo $15-20 type of general service that some say they are washing their aircons so frequently with).......then it might be PSI 30 outside.
ie the aircon together with the air purifier guarantees you the air no issue. Can mark that out.

With the air out of the way, you can then concentrate on the bedding, pillow etc. And with anti-mite stuff available, that shd be able to control it to a low enough level.



There are 3 factors at play here from what i see.

1. Aircon FCU - it's an active airflow device that is spewing out air directly out, there is airflow disturbance as well. So even for stuff that are 20-200 microns, it still can cause a fair bit of disturbance.

Of coz, with very regular general servicing, I guess that is still better than what others do, just do a half yearly general servicing and then a chemical wash once every 2-3 years. Then no Air Purifier. :sick: Those cases are really WTF esp with the amount of gunk i can blast out of the coil, trust me on this.


Let me share some pics on the water i can clean out from these FCUs with the pressure washer, first one is pre-wash with just plain water, the second one is with cleaner after 1st pre-wash.

NGlTejW.jpg

tTaN0vh.jpg





So at least for Point 1. The Aircon cleanliness is have a small gap in your windows opened and outside is like just PSI 150 for still relatively clean FCUs, or they might be PSI 3000 for those disgusting FCUs.


Second point. Depends on your sensitivity to such allergens. Some just sneeze a bit and have a slightly itchy nose. At the other spectrum, there are pax with so much mucous produced that it remains stuck chronically coz even after 4-6 hrs coming out from the AC room, the mucous cannot clear things enough. Some might not even react to antihistamine meds and continue sneezing (also depends on the allergen route).


Third point. As you mentioned, depends on your air purifier CADR and resulting ACH in your room.
The "good" thing nowadays is that BTOs are getting smaller so esp in the normal bedrooms, medium speed for the Xiaomi 3H and sqair might already be sufficient.
But with MBR esp in places like Pasir Ris/Tampines, i think need to do 2 APs in medium speed, or 1 single pretty large air purifier in medium speed. ie the volume of the Air purifier cannot siam from that one, it's physics.
If you can tahan high speed noise then go ahead, but vast majority of pax won't be able to do that.

Additionally, if you double the number of APs, the dB SPL gets to +6dB.

Eg a Samsung AX40 does just 46dBA and has a CADR or 323 m3/hr. 2 units of AX40 guns out 600+ m3/hr and does 51 dBA.
 

herz22

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I assume the takeaway is, one simply cannot full blast ap for a while, then drop back to low noise/speed level as the Aircon will reintroduce the allergen back to the room? And it needs at least medium (at least for XM 3H) or higher to counter this?
Side track a bit, Actually how do we know if there are dust mites or not? Do they bite?
The issue I encountered with XM is that when you run it on manual, it goes back to auto mode. There is a solution to work around it, but decided to change to Sqair because there are no electronics and purely mechanical, including the rotary switch.

Why ‘Auto Mode’ is bad?​


There are a few reasons why the ‘Auto Mode’ isn’t the best option for you when using your new Xiaomi Air Purifier.
  1. Auto Mode doesn’t kick in until the PM2.5 level reaches 50. Ideally, you’ll want the PM2.5 level in your home as low as possible. The EU Commission recommends less than 25 is a healthy level.
  2. The inbuilt Xiaomi PM2.5 detectors have been shown in other studies not to be the most accurate. Having a lower PM2.5 rating mitigates this risk as you know you are purifying a set volume of air.
  3. You can keep your PM2.5’s low at night while you are sleeping. And, for myself, the ambient fan noise helps drown out street noise.
https://www.review-hub.co.uk/xiaomi-air-purifier-turns-itself-off-auto-mode/

It is just like the Americans who invested millions on a Fisher space pen to write in space but the Russians just brought along a pencil. My point is the simplest solution do not need to be expensive or complicated.
 

WussRedXLi

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Side track a bit, Actually how do we know if there are dust mites or not? Do they bite?
Oh.....they are there alright. They are always there.
They are definitely there in your bed and pillow, deep inside as well. They are also definitely there in your aircon FCU, already posted the NCBI scientific article earlier which also tested for the presence of dust mite allergens.

They don't bite, totally not like bed bugs. Damn small, around 0.25mm, cant see them.
 

WussRedXLi

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Share one extreme example on AP size and SPL.

This is the Cleanroom type FFU (Fan Filter Unit) that is popular in China. Simple coz it can really move some air and still stay relatively silent. But also relatively cheap + shifting some serious air is a big deal in China simply coz of its high ug/m3 levels it can peak at. Plus the FFU filters are relatively cheap as well + hold a serious amount of particulate matter which is esp useful in N China during winter.

Xiaomi at max airflow = 64 dB on the meter. 300+ m3/hr.

The FFU = 53 dB on the meter. Overy 1000 m3/hr. IIRC is 1200 or something...but take this fig with a grain of salt coz it is not a properly measured CADR in the lab. But it shd not be extremely off lah. And besides a lot of these are just paper specs that matter in the lab and in our minds, in reality it really takes a lot of difference in CADR, as literally nearly 100% difference, then would there be a practical difference IRL be it haze or what.
Remember what i said in 2015, i was operating around 2000 m3/hr of airflow from my air purifiers during the heaviest and densest haze days in my house, with a further around 400 m3/hr in my parents house.


Now, that fatso flagship Xiaomi also does 1000 m3/hr, but is still relatively noisy. But of coz still not as big as this FFU.

Really apples to oranges comparison, but ultimately physics is still there.

Now, 3 units of Samsung AX40 can net you 1000 m3/hr and still hang around the ballpark of 53dB, the size i believe is still smaller than the FFU. So probably still more noise efficient than the FFU. But the price would be ugh. And also got other things to consider (now EOL already, so no filters etc, not even from qoo10).

I got 2 more units of AX40 at $50 and $60 respectively this way after 2015 haze. LOL.
I use TB generics with these. Quite energy efficient as well (as what i measured from the plug).

 
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WussRedXLi

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The xiaomi ver 3 got "physical" button already right, to change the fan speed modes, one of which cycles through to "Favourite" model.
Tot they changed due to customer feedback.......think a lot of pax find playing with the app to get to the desired fan speed not exactly "enticing" and they fixed this.

Though for the fav mode of coz you still need to pre-set the desired speed, but this is just 1 time pain. So not thhhhaaatt bad.

For previous models like ver 2, yeah, this is pain in the ass, and to some pax this is a huge negative.


No of coz never ever do Auto mode....this is common knowledge since the beginning of the thread in part 1 liao. Not even if the AP is equipped with a pretty sensitive laser particle counter module instead of a IR module unless if it is just haze levels that you are concerned with. Even then with haze + laser particle counter module which is pretty sensitive, it is probably not "tuned" nicely in most cases to what an end-user would want, unless if the end user is not a very discerning pax and just wants a low SPL machine as much as possible.

This also goes for Samsung, Sharp, Novita and the vast majority of other brands. Not peculiar to Xiaomi products only.
 
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mindgamey

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The issue I encountered with XM is that when you run it on manual, it goes back to auto mode. There is a solution to work around it, but decided to change to Sqair because there are no electronics and purely mechanical, including the rotary switch.

Why ‘Auto Mode’ is bad?​


There are a few reasons why the ‘Auto Mode’ isn’t the best option for you when using your new Xiaomi Air Purifier.
  1. Auto Mode doesn’t kick in until the PM2.5 level reaches 50. Ideally, you’ll want the PM2.5 level in your home as low as possible. The EU Commission recommends less than 25 is a healthy level.
  2. The inbuilt Xiaomi PM2.5 detectors have been shown in other studies not to be the most accurate. Having a lower PM2.5 rating mitigates this risk as you know you are purifying a set volume of air.
  3. You can keep your PM2.5’s low at night while you are sleeping. And, for myself, the ambient fan noise helps drown out street noise.
https://www.review-hub.co.uk/xiaomi-air-purifier-turns-itself-off-auto-mode/

It is just like the Americans who invested millions on a Fisher space pen to write in space but the Russians just brought along a pencil. My point is the simplest solution do not need to be expensive or complicated.

What model of XM you are using?

Like what WRX said I am using 3H and I set my favourite mode to 2/5 of the bar, quieter than medium speed. And it stays that mode throughout the night.
 

WussRedXLi

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BTW, this is what happens if you are only doing the really cheap type of general servicing costing $15-20. All those deeper internal stuff would be missed. There are some better types of general servicing that'd remove the blower to wash in the bathroom and also dig the plastic surfaces and even dig the back condensate drain with a rag, but they usually go for $30-40. Those are at least a bit better. Still, they will not touch the back coil, and the front coil would just be a wipe/brush/vacuum. Neither the internal surfaces of the evaporator coil would be touched and for sure there would be mold accumulation.

Think of it like 90% mold+spore and 10% human skin flakes/dust/dust mite etc?
It is right at the blower airflow space....... and more are in the evaporator coil fins.
Sometimes you might get that dirty sock syndrome when you first switch on the aircon, not dissimilar what you get in the car aircon as well.

hqdefault.jpg



This is what can be digged from just the back coil with my pressure washer, even with pretty frequent general servicing of 4X yearly iirc (the fella i think on a contract cleaning).

sKakcc2.jpg
 
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herz22

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What model of XM you are using?

Like what WRX said I am using 3H and I set my favourite mode to 2/5 of the bar, quieter than medium speed. And it stays that mode throughout the night.
I am using 3C but now it is in my office cubicle. 😅
 

FatalethaL

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I assume the takeaway is, one simply cannot full blast ap for a while, then drop back to low noise/speed level as the Aircon will reintroduce the allergen back to the room? And it needs at least medium (at least for XM 3H) or higher to counter this?

I turn on my aircon and Sqair same time, but Sqair at full blast. Maybe 30 mins later i turn Sqair down to low speed, then sleep.

Last time got mentioned in old thread. I also used to have running nose and sneezing almost every morning in the past... used to take piriton if worsen.

AP to a certain extend can help, but I believe lifestyle and diet plays an important role.

I began to not experience running nose or sneezing ever since the introduction of an AP.
 

Lucky177

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I turn on my aircon and Sqair same time, but Sqair at full blast. Maybe 30 mins later i turn Sqair down to low speed, then sleep.



I began to not experience running nose or sneezing ever since the introduction of an AP.
I turn on my aircon and Sqair same time, but Sqair at full blast. Maybe 30 mins later i turn Sqair down to low speed, then sleep.



I began to not experience running nose or sneezing ever since the introduction of an AP.
That’s good. Is a good start.

Hopefully combine with a good lifestyle and diet etc, u will at least have less reoccurrence even if go out.

I used to suffer from that for many years. AP helps me to a certain extend, I mean can’t expect me to bring along my AP when I go out right? 治标不治本。At home with AP I dun experience... But go out leh?

At one stage, to an extent even frequent skin outbreak whenever I go out, inside bus, inside mrt can suddenly outbreak.. not everytime, but was bad enough when that happened. I got to rush back home take a hot shower, switch on my AP ... this n that .... Used to rely on medication to relief the symptoms.... did allergy test etc ...

But now no more, at least didn’t reoccur for very long for both running nose and skin outbreak, unlike in the past. Of course I still on my AP at night when I sleep. But at least so far, didn’t reoccur even if I go out. Or maybe if haze back, may reoccur again. I dunno. Touch wood. lol

I did many things... if u ask me exactly is which and which, I also cannot pinpoint, 说不上 ... is not just one particular thing and it happened. AP is beneficial, is good, is important, else I wouldn’t buy APs at first place. But I believe lifestyle and diet plays an important role.
 
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WussRedXLi

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I turn on my aircon and Sqair same time, but Sqair at full blast. Maybe 30 mins later i turn Sqair down to low speed, then sleep.

I began to not experience running nose or sneezing ever since the introduction of an AP.

You are really lucky, your sensitivity/nasal inflammation, allergen levels, room size etc don't seem to be that serious and don't need to spend good $$$ to manage it nicely.

Not sure about your room size, as said earlier, for the new BTO bedroom sizes nowadays (mine is 3 x 2.7 x 2.8m height, times 0.7 coz of furnitures occupying air volume), even a lowish 100 m3/hr already nets you over 6 ACHs.
So nowadays small rooms in BTOs actually are a boon in this area, can enjoy the less demands placed on AP hardware. :ROFLMAO:
Of coz for Master BRs, that'd go up....and for big houses esp in the farther flung areas esp like Pasir Ris, those are gonna be much tougher. 3-4 more airspace volume, easily.



Since Air Purifier part 1 thread many years ago (started coz after the 2013 serious haze) there were so many sufferers which needed serious help in their sensitivities where in some cases it was just mere reduction in symptoms and had to spend good $$ for further improvements.
Then again prices have come down quite a bit also with many more good products. Even as recent as 2015, $100+ could only get you those small toy stuff like you'd find in DIY-fixit stores....or at best online could get those small little Sharps. Xiaomi ver 1 was starting to hit the market i think by then......
 
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WussRedXLi

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I did many things... if u ask me exactly is which and which, I also cannot pinpoint, 说不上 ... is not just one particular thing and it happened. AP is beneficial, is good, is important, else I wouldn’t buy APs at first place. But I believe lifestyle and diet plays an important role.

Good diet, i guess if you really can find something that is significant in cutting possible inflammation in the body, it might be worthwhile. But so far havent found any mix of foods to be good, or maybe have not been too serious in this route. Coz i believe it really is gonna be a big overhaul in one's diet to notice any therapeutic changes.


One thing i believe is that since all these things are based on inflammation basically (of the nasal passages), as long as you can find a way so that you can break the near daily chain of allergic rhinitis attacks ie inflammation, things would start to heal and you would be on your way to more significant improvement and even recovery.

If don't do anything about it....dont care, sometimes just jiak a day or 2 of antihistamines, it would be an endless cycle, coz the inflammation feeds on itself if you do not cut it and do a full "recovery".


It was only when i really started on serious AP route after 2013 haze with multiple APs (purchased a cheap $200+ Novita from stores and then Samsung AX40 online) that i noticed significant improvements.

But i also believe that my and my kids cases are not really light cases of sensitivity, but also not the ultra serious cases, like my colleague who needed RF turbinoplasty reduction of the turbinates coz the resultant mucous after the allergic attack has started was so thick that it impacted QOL. In office always see tissue boxes around and in the basket and blowing of nose.
For me is just sniff sniff, a bit itchy from "last night's attack" but on the road to "recovery", until my next allergic attack that is. :ROFLMAO: Just that > 50% of the days sure will have sneezing and running nose to various degress.




Decades ago after the 1997 Indonesia heavy haze when i started on APs with a Triton or something (can remember brand name but it was just a small desktop bugger which costed S$200+ :sick: ) which is based on electrostatic precipitation, without much knowledge of such things esp info on the internet is not that solid and esp online shopping then..... it would be days of non-stop misery, antihistamines bring that approx 1 day of relief and then things wld slide again.


Then In 2007 i purchased my first serious AP, a Sharp KC-840, for a price of $479 or $499. That's like 218 m3/hr of airflow in highest fan speed mode (pretty loud for sleeping use).
Each replacement filters are like $99 or something. Then the performance was at least something, even though it did not totally stop my allergic rhinitis. Then 2013 haze came and i decided to gun it, esp with more online info + online purchasing options.
 
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Lucky177

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Quite a big overhaul in my diet. From meat eater gradually to a vegetarian. Not vegan, I still eat eggs. U can’t suddenly change diet overnight, not good for the body. Cut down sugar, flour intake. And I also not mean go eat those gluten stuff, faked meat etc. But as to whether that alone helps, frankly I dun think so. Or whether that even helps substantially to have effect, I also dunno. Or whether being a vegetarian helps, or even is that good for an individual, I also dunno. Not all are suitable.

I did many things. Go out exercise, under the sun (but not noon sun hor) ... and many other stuff. I think is what all combine helped me ba.

I guess if able to cleanse one’s body system internally somehow by daily reducing less garbage, toxic, heavy metals, pollutants into the body inside, is probably a first good step to move forward ba. I also dunno. AP plays a part for sure, at least that’s what I believe. Reduce the amount of “unclean” air into the body daily.

But AP alone is not sufficient, although it helps to “resolve” my morning running nose and sneezing, it didn’t cut the root... at least not for me when I had to go out.

I not medically trained. Neither am I a nutritionist. So I dunno.
 
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WussRedXLi

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Quite a big overhaul in my diet. From meat eater gradually to a vegetarian. Not vegan, I still eat eggs. U can’t suddenly change diet overnight, not good for the body. Cut down sugar intake. And I also not mean go eat those gluten stuff, faked meat etc. But as to whether that alone helps, frankly I dun think so. Or whether that even helps substantially to have effect, I also dunno. Or whether being a vegetarian helps, or even is that good for an individual, I also dunno. Not all are suitable.

I did many things. Go out exercise, under the sun (but not noon sun hor) ... and many other stuff.

I guess if able to cleanse one’s body system internally somehow by daily reducing less garbage, toxic, heavy metals, pollutants into the body inside, is probably a first good step to move forward ba. I also dunno. AP plays a part for sure, at least that’s what I believe. Reduce the amount of “unclean” air into the body daily.

But AP alone is not sufficient, although it helps to “resolve” my morning running nose and sneezing, it didn’t cut the root... at least not for me when I had to go out.

I not medically trained. Neither am I a nutritionist. So I dunno.
Basket this new forum sw quite difficult to post on mobile phone esp with things like emoticons...sian.

I see... well in that case i believe my diet has already been quite ok all these years. Sun is definitely no issue, have weekend outdoor activities weekly (my skin is definitely not fair lol), and coz of trying to be proactively avoid heart/cardiac and also cancer issues esp when step into my elderly yrs, been eating all those stuff like oats, veg and fruits (min of 2 servings daily of each type), sardines and basically whole foods and avoiding processed foods, avoid sugar and you know those lifestyle consumption products you see so often in shopping ctrs as much as possible. :ROFLMAO: Green tea (antioxidants), though that is just packaged Ayataka and Pokka green tea, but i do drink quite a bit so shd still be much better than the average baseline. lol


But i think if can do 10 ACH from APs, it ought to be quite signifincant improvement for vast majority of cases (except the super duper jialat ones).

I remember even for Sharp A40 (the cute little $99 H10 fella) on qoo10, you could see reviews that some pax are reporting albeit anecdotally that there is some relief. Pretty low CADR, i think ard 150 m3/hr on high speed, and below 100 in med.

SHARP+Air+Purifier+external.jpg
 
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WussRedXLi

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BTW if one is wondering why i always mention 10 ACH for allergy and not other lower figs like 5 ACH or something, well actually for outdoor haze 5 ACH is more than fine already in fact lower than that is fine in a room that is aircon with windows closed.
If i rem correctly generally for allergy and asthma recommends 4-8 ACH from those non medical/govt sites like AP manufacturers or allergy org sites.

Just that for indoor pollutants like AC, it's more like copying an ICU ACH of 12 (min recommendation). Round it down for consumers and 10 is already fine for the vast majority of cases out there including moderately-severe cases.

Esp after you have fixed this chronic inflammation issue of allergic rhintiis (it's an inflammation) and it's no longer a daily occurence already, for sure can try lower ACHs to see if that good result is sustainable....or at least till a level in which even the light sleepers aren't bothered. In the haze thread some light sleepers cant even sleep in Xiaomi any > medium slider position...need to be below that and operate multiples.
Basically the idea is like that.......you'd have to vary things on your own.

But i can also tell you from many years of experience, you really do not want for it to restart again, if for that few days you suddenly get a resurgence, better take your antihistamines and find out what is the issue and root cause. Is it due to the beddings, or aircon, or what.

Coz I have come across episodes in which i got lazy and pushed my DIY aircon cleaning till well over 2 months, and we could get attacks again. I did not change the ACH, but instead i washed my AC FCUs and for that day took antihistamines, and instantly the allergic attacks subsided. Very very obvious one.
The earlier you fix issues, the easier for you to recover back to a good baseline.


eg one source on the ACH:
https://www.asahq.org/in-the-spotli...ormation/hospital-and-facility-administration
  • Preferably, surgical interventions should be conducted in a negative pressure room with a minimum of 12 air changes per hour (most operating rooms have 15-20 air exchanges per hour). Air is filtered with a HEPA filter and evacuated from these rooms to the external atmosphere. If a negative pressure operating room is unavailable, contact your bioengineering department for other means to optimize existing operating room ventilation (e.g., disable positive pressure flow, maximize the number of air exchanges per hour, use portable HEPA filtration system).
 
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WussRedXLi

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Found one scientific write up regarding indoor allergens like mold/fungi, cat allergen (i guess uncommon in SG due to HDB rules), mites, pollen (not all would be in your house, esp for the last one as we do not usually have pollen issues) and how ACH/HEPA filtration reduced the indoor concentrations.

Source is a PDF.....can click on it, it is safe.
https://www.jacionline.org/article/0091-6749(88)90980-3/pdf
I think maybe i shall post it out for readers' ease.


INDOOR ALLERGEN AND IRRlTANT CONCENTRATIONS
The quantity of allergen in the air of the indoor environment is related to the rate of introduction of that allergen from outdoors, as in the case of pollen and some mold spores, or production withm the house, as in the case of other species of mold spores and allergens derived from animals and insects. A second variable is the rate the allergen settles from the air. Depending on the size of the particle with which these antigens are associated, rate of spontaneous settling will vary greatly; generally, the amount of antigen associated with surfaces either due to direct deposition or to settling will far exceed that in the ;

Pollen allergens Most pollen is >15 pm in diameter and settles rapidly from still air. The rate of settling for a 20 um particle has been calculated to be 2.4 ft/min.” This rate has been confirmed in actual observations of ragweed pollen showing almost complete clearing from still air within 5 minutes.24 It is because of this rapid settling indoors and isolation from outdoor sources allowed by air conditioning, when it is present, that low indoor counts are observed even in the absence of airfiltering devices. There is evidence, at least during the ragweed season, that there are ragweed allergens carried on particles and perhaps vapors far smaller than pollen grains. 25,26 These may arise from other ragweed plant parts, particularly the inflorescence,” or by leaching of allergens from the pollen grains after they have been released and fallen on other surfaces. 26 Thus far, the occurrence of these allergenic particles and aerosols has been assessed only in the outdoor air, and their importance in indoor air is not known.

Mites
The principal allergen of the house dust mite, Dermatophagoides pteronyssinus, is associated with fecal pellets >lO wrn in diameter.*’ The settling rate for particles of this size is estimated to be 0.6 ftl min.2’ As might be anticipated, particles of this size are largely airborne as a result of domestic cleaning and changing the bedclothes; 15 to 35 minutes thereafter, 96% of the suspended mite allergen has settled out of the air.” Direct sampling in the air of 16 undisturbed rooms at a rate of 17 L/min for 2 to 8 hours did not reveal detectable quantities (BO.3 ng Der p I) of mite antigen, nor could this mite allergen be found when overnight collection at 3.5 L/min was performed at the level of the head of a sleeping person.28 Other studies have detected the presence of mite allergens in the undisturbed air of homes and apartments.25 Although comparison of different types of allergens is hazardous, the quantity of mite allergen in the air (2661 pg/m3) was markedly lower than the quantity of cat allergen in houses with one to three cats (53,333 pg/m3) or the amount of guinea pig allergen in houses with one to three guinea pigs (306,500 pg/m3). Sampling data are thus consistent with .a tendency for most mite allergen to settle from the air, which raises a question as to whether significant amounts are in the air except during domestic activities.

Animal allergens
As suggested by the data mentioned above,25 it appears likely that allergens derived from domestic animals remain airborne to a greater extent than those from mites and pollen grains. Sampling of an apartment where cats had resided revealed that 8 1% of the Fe1 d I allergen (Cat 1) was associated with particles >lO km in diameter.29 After simulated domestic activities, however, a notable quantity of allergen was present in the air associated with very small particles (<0.05 pm) that remained airborne with little reduction 2 hours later.23, 25 Rat urinary proteins have been found to be associated with particles in the 5 to 10 km range. Mouse urine proteins were found in appreciable quantities in the air of inner-city apartments.25. 27

Molds
Although during the warmer months indoor mold sampling is often dominated by outdoor fungi,30 the principal fungal spores of indoor origin have consistently been Penicillium, Aspergillus, and yeasts.30-32 All of these produce small spores that might be expected to remain airborne for considerable periods. Sampling in homes in Michigan during the winter revealed isolation rates as high as 14,000 spores /m3, with 15 of 80 samples having >lOOO isolates/m3.30 Asthma has been provoked with inhalation of both Penicillium and Aspergillus spores in quantities that might be inhaled as a result of indoor exposure over a 24-hour period.33 Cockroach Unlike the house dust mite, the allergens of cockroach appear to be contained primarily in the body and shed skin rather than in the feces.34 In a study of aeroallergens in 20 inner-city apartments, the quantity of cockroach allergen detected in the air was 29,450 pg/m3.23

Summary
Allergens can be found in the indoor air. It appears that the rate of spontaneous clearing of the air by settling is higher for pollen and mite allergen, and significantly less for mammalian allergens and perhaps mold spores and cockroach. Although these allergens are to be found in the air, this should not obscure the fact that the airborne load may be very small compared with that on surfaces. For example, a spread on which cats had slept regularly was extracted and yielded 20,000 U of Fe1 d I antigen, a quantity equal to 74 times the amount that could be obtained from washing a cat.” Clearly, with quantities such as this on the surfaces that are readily dispersed by activity, the small amount of allergen available to be removed from the air may be insignificant .








RECOMMENDATIONS

Different allergens are associated with particles of different sizes that vary in their tendency to remain airborne. Thus pollen grains and house dust mire feces predictably fall from still air within a few minutes, whereas allergens derived from animals and mold spores may remain airborne to a greater degree, although even they settle significantly from the air. The amount of allergen in the air, even from domestic animals, is relatively small compared with the huge reservoir existing in the furnishings and carpets of the home. There is no information on the threshold dose of any indoor allergen required to produce symptoms. Furthermore, the relative importance of continuous low-grade exposure as opposed to intermittent exposure to heavy concentrations of allergens is unknown. It is possible the latter is more apt to increase nonspecific bronchial hyperreactivity. The most predictable health benefit will be achieved by eliminating the source of the allergen from the home-be it a pet or a heavily mite-infested sofaor by environmental control measures designed to decrease the exposure to mite allergen.5’. 52 Important measures, when feasible, are to increase ventilation with outdoor air and, where appropriate, to reduce humidity, a measure that decreases both mite16. ” and moldi growth. The available data suggest that the role for freestanding indoor air cleaners is limited. Published reports indicate that most of the prevention of exposure to outdoor allergens during warm months can be obtained by use of air conditioning, with only marginal additional benefit from a central air cleaner. Studies of room-cleaning devices have not produced significant clinical improvement, except with the use of a laminar how of highly cleaned air over the subject’s head during sleep. Significantly, in one study, similar results appeared to be achievable by encasing the mattress in an impermeable covering. This reinforces the feeling that avoidance measures and reduction in the reservoir of allergen should be used first, and aircleaning devices should be considered only if symptoms remain severe despite other avoidance measures and there is reason to believe that a significant load of airborne allergens is present. If the decision is made to use an air cleaner, which type should be obtained? It is clear that the ordinary panel filter unit, often producing a scent, with very low cleaning efficiency is difficult to recommend. Because the designation of a filter as HEPA ensures a high degree of efficiency, it should be sought if a mechanical filter is to be used. Electronic air cleaners are initially somewhat less effective and can rapidly decline in efficiency unless regularI!, maintained.

There does not appear to be any obvious advantage to counterbalance these definite disadvantages of the electronic air cleaners when compared with HEPA filter units. In addition, units of mixed pedigree are available. The best way to compare units is to obtain air output figures, preferably from an independent testing laboratory. With this information, rates of clean air change per hour can be calculated for the area to be serviced. For units in which electrical attraction is used in the collection process, some documentation of the rate of decline in efficiency with use will provide insight into the frequency with which maintenance procedures will be necessary. In summary, the available data on the use of residential air cleaning devices has been reviewed. Absence of adequate data on the clinical relevance of indoor ambient allergen levels and the effect of air cleaning devices on these levels precludes any firm recommendations for their use. It is clear, however, that the use of air cleaning devices in the absence of other forms of environmental control is not sensible
 
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WussRedXLi

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Heh.....zai zai one, seen from other studies previously as well, this is not the only one.
From a brief read of the recommendations section of the article, already know that double blind testing sure yields not that good results. It will work, but only clinically significant results in a laminar airflow setting (eg what you get in cleanrooms etc).

But of coz for us esp, still it's a viable option to chase.....it's also probably among the last option or 2 that you can easily and fuss free solve with just spending some money or needing much effort.


But like i mentioned earlier as well, it's always source control is key first (freq cleaning, HEPA vaccuming, anti mite beddings, mold control in FCU etc) and then later you can chase stuff like the ACH values, filter replacement cost etc.

But one thing i can 100% confirm for you is this, there is no need to chase and spend 5 digits on IQAir units for allergy. The allergens particulate size are way bigger than smoke haze.
I remember this was debated before several years ago and for sure there will always be 2 camps esp in SG Some people really willing to spend, i remember one fella spent > 10k to equip his rooms...want the best, imagine the recurring filter costs.
But then i guess, ownself happy can already.


This reinforces the feeling that avoidance measures and reduction in the reservoir of allergen should be used first, and aircleaning devices should be considered only if symptoms remain severe despite other avoidance measures and there is reason to believe that a significant load of airborne allergens is present.

It is clear, however, that the use of air cleaning devices in the absence of other forms of environmental control is not sensible


Bonus : Laminar flow of air

 
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WussRedXLi

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I turn on my aircon and Sqair same time, but Sqair at full blast. Maybe 30 mins later i turn Sqair down to low speed, then sleep.

I began to not experience running nose or sneezing ever since the introduction of an AP.

Managed to come across some stuff during a quick google...... maybe there is a certain degree of truth in having the greatest risk of mold/fungi/spore exposure during the initial phase of switching on the AC. But still need to know the exact levels, unfortunately cant get the details coz need to request for txt.

As mentioned, mold/fungi/spores all are relatively small (smaller than mite feces and definitely smaller than mite bodies containing the allergens) and can hang much better in the air.
My suspicion has always been this route to be our greatest risk, not the mites route.


https://www.researchgate.net/publication/222692410_Effect_of_air-conditioner_on_fungal_contamination
Air-conditioners (AC) produce much dew and wet conditions inside their apparatus, when in operation. We studied the fungal contamination in AC and found that the average fungal contamination of AC filters was about 5-fold greater than that of a carpet, and Cladosporium and Penicillium were predominant in AC filters. The fungal contamination inside AC, which were used everyday, increased more markedly than those not used daily, e.g. a few days per week or rarely. Moreover, the airborne fungal contamination in rooms during air-conditioning was about 2-fold greater than one in rooms without AC, and was highest when air-conditioning started and decreased gradually with time. We recognized that the airborne fungal contamination was controlled by the environmental condition of the rooms, in which AC were used. It is suggested that AC might promote mold allergies in users via airborne fungal spores derived from the AC. On the other hand, AC was estimated to remove moisture in the room atmosphere and carpets, and reduce the relative humidity in rooms. It was found that the average fungal contamination in the house dust of carpets with AC was suppressed by two-third of that in rooms without AC. The use of AC for suppressing fungal hazards was discussed.
 

WussRedXLi

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Post here first, read in detail later

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/47367315_Fungal_colonization_of_air-conditioning_systems

Fungal colonization of air-conditioning systems​



Must get access, alamak
Airborne Fungal Contamination in Air-Conditioning Systems: Effect of Filtering and Humidifying Devices
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15428119691014323


https://www.researchgate.net/public...Heaters_Room_Air_Conditioners_and_Humidifiers
The authors performed 3 experiments to measure temporal variation in airborne bacterial and fungal levels associated with the use of air conditioners (ACs), heaters, and humidifiers. The concentrations of bioaerosols that they measured inside vehicles and a seminar room prior to use of an AC were lower than or similar to those for outdoor air. In most cases, elevated concentrations occurred 5 to 15 minutes after the use of an automobile or household AC, and these concentrations decreased over time. For 3 of 5 cars, however, the bacterial concentrations did not vary significantly. For cars, the maximum bacterial concentration (2,550 CFU m-3) was 46 times higher than the in-vehicle background concentration (55 CFU m-3). Three fungi (Cladosporium, Penicillium, and Aspergillus) exhibited the highest concentrations for most sampling periods of the ACs and heate


Got it, as close as it gets

https://www.researchgate.net/figure...easured-in-a-seminar-room-prior_fig5_23448245
Airborne-total-bacterial-and-total-fungal-concentrations-measured-in-a-seminar-room-prior.png

Airborne total bacterial and total fungal concentrations measured in a seminar room prior to and after switching on the air conditioner. The room was surveyed 4 times, and average values are presented. The outside levels of total bacteria, total fungi on malt extract agar (MEA), and total fungi on DG-18 were 837, 762, and 646 CFU m 3 , respectively.​

 
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