AK120 appreciation thread

[kenz]

The AK120's weakness is in the built-in amp. On its own it sound good but not at its retail price good.

However, pair up the AK120 with a good amp, for me the TubeAmp TA1 or ALO rxMK3B/+, with a good IC (i use a pure copper IC or Silver Widow IC), and the difference is significant. So much so, i would rank the pair better than a Hifiman HM-901 on stock amp/comparable with balanced amp card.

The AK120 sonic definitely require better planned earpieces. To balance its gentle presentation with a more aggressive earpiece (i use a JH13pro custom), the synergy will bring about the improvements.

For a player such as AK120, its rewards come when properly paired with the gears that makes it more than the sum of its parts. Pricey yes, but the results are worth it.

 

[FatalethaL]

The AK120's weakness is in the built-in amp. On its own it sound good but not at its retail price good.

However, pair up the AK120 with a good amp, for me the TubeAmp TA1 or ALO rxMK3B/+, with a good IC (i use a pure copper IC or Silver Widow IC), and the difference is significant. So much so, i would rank the pair better than a Hifiman HM-901 on stock amp/comparable with balanced amp card.

The AK120 sonic definitely require better planned earpieces. To balance its gentle presentation with a more aggressive earpiece (i use a JH13pro custom), the synergy will bring about the improvements.

For a player such as AK120, its rewards come when properly paired with the gears that makes it more than the sum of its parts. Pricey yes, but the results are worth it.

pruss satu!

 

[MrSenG]

Spoiler

Ok I went to have a quick listen today to the AK120. There was no AK100 for me to listen to.

Just to be frank, I feel the player does offer more performance than an ipod but not a huge difference for the price.. I was rather underwhelmed. It's more dry and less lively sounding, and I actually preferred the ipod's sound by default as it was more engaging.

My gf said we probably need to find the right earphone for it so we asked for recommendations and tried a few such as FAD, Sennheiser, Shure, Westone but we still weren't convinced.. At this stage, I stopped listening to the AK120.

From the various tests, I wasn't sure I would be getting a AK120 but I thought I didn't mind buying the FAD Heaven VI as it sounded ok with both the ipod and AK120 although I felt the mids were abit colored and it's more on the gentle side.

Then this happened - someone next to me was trying out the Fitear 335 and I had a listen after she was done with it.

These earphones made the biggest difference I heard all day, and by a significant margin. The only negative is that as a custom, I can't share with the gf. I didn't get to hear the 334 (no stock) otherwise I might be very keen to consider buying them. Shop asked me to consider waiting for the Shure 846 to arrive to consider as well. It was too bad the shop had limited higher end earphones to test.

Based on what I heard today, rather than buying a $1.5k player with $500 earphones, I'd rather just invest the full $2-3k on the earphone. I can always pick up a player/amp later on if I wish.

If I'm not mistaken, Jaben's AK120 is on firmware 0.8 Beta, which really doesn't do justice to it. Firmware version does matter in terms of the sound quality, I'm using 1.32 on my AK120, and having reverted to iPod Touch 2G or Sansa Clip+ on some occasions, I can notice the significant sonic improvements of the AK120.

I did share the same sentiments when I first tried the DX100, coming from the Sansa Clip+, the difference didn't feel like it was worth $1,000 but I've learnt that you really can't quanitfy these things

 

[Questor]

If I'm not mistaken, Jaben's AK120 is on firmware 0.8 Beta, which really doesn't do justice to it. Firmware version does matter in terms of the sound quality, I'm using 1.32 on my AK120, and having reverted to iPod Touch 2G or Sansa Clip+ on some occasions, I can notice the significant sonic improvements of the AK120.

I did share the same sentiments when I first tried the DX100, coming from the Sansa Clip+, the difference didn't feel like it was worth $1,000 but I've learnt that you really can't quanitfy these things

I also discounted that they were using FLAC files.. will talk more on the comparison part in my response to kenz.

The AK120's weakness is in the built-in amp. On its own it sound good but not at its retail price good.

However, pair up the AK120 with a good amp, for me the TubeAmp TA1 or ALO rxMK3B/+, with a good IC (i use a pure copper IC or Silver Widow IC), and the difference is significant. So much so, i would rank the pair better than a Hifiman HM-901 on stock amp/comparable with balanced amp card.

The AK120 sonic definitely require better planned earpieces. To balance its gentle presentation with a more aggressive earpiece (i use a JH13pro custom), the synergy will bring about the improvements.

For a player such as AK120, its rewards come when properly paired with the gears that makes it more than the sum of its parts. Pricey yes, but the results are worth it.

From what you guys are saying, the price of entry for the AK120 is really for the DAC and not the amplifier. Still, I find it surprising as my comparison was with an ipod which I assume has a pretty crap amplifier too.

Anyway, if it's only for the DAC, I can accept the price differential for the performance.. I do think that moving from a $500 DAC to a $1.5k DAC has only semi-marginal improvement for stereo gear, so probably similar for portable hifi too.

Just to give a reference, I do own DACs from <$1k up to >$15k for my stereo system.. maybe I'm more forgiving and just have to revise my expectations.


In this case, if the amp is the one that makes a bigger difference, isn't it better to get an external amp, even with the ipod? Wouldn't the same arguments apply?

Couldn't one also add an external DAC to the AK100 or ipod too? Just wondering, what's the highest end on external DACs anyway?

 

[binabik]

I have the a k120 currently and is currently considering if I should be amping it given Im already pretty happy with the sound.

Can you share what sort of improvements you experience when you amp it?

The AK120's weakness is in the built-in amp. On its own it sound good but not at its retail price good.

However, pair up the AK120 with a good amp, for me the TubeAmp TA1 or ALO rxMK3B/+, with a good IC (i use a pure copper IC or Silver Widow IC), and the difference is significant. So much so, i would rank the pair better than a Hifiman HM-901 on stock amp/comparable with balanced amp card.

The AK120 sonic definitely require better planned earpieces. To balance its gentle presentation with a more aggressive earpiece (i use a JH13pro custom), the synergy will bring about the improvements.

For a player such as AK120, its rewards come when properly paired with the gears that makes it more than the sum of its parts. Pricey yes, but the results are worth it.

 

[weng]

From what you guys are saying, the price of entry for the AK120 is really for the DAC and not the amplifier. Still, I find it surprising as my comparison was with an ipod which I assume has a pretty crap amplifier too.

Anyway, if it's only for the DAC, I can accept the price differential for the performance.. I do think that moving from a $500 DAC to a $1.5k DAC has only semi-marginal improvement for stereo gear, so probably similar for portable hifi too.

Just to give a reference, I do own DACs from <$1k up to >$15k for my stereo system.. maybe I'm more forgiving and just have to revise my expectations.


In this case, if the amp is the one that makes a bigger difference, isn't it better to get an external amp, even with the ipod? Wouldn't the same arguments apply?

Couldn't one also add an external DAC to the AK100 or ipod too? Just wondering, what's the highest end on external DACs anyway?

i think the ak120 internal amp is not crap ba, just that how far you wanna go only. also synergy plays a part. of cos one would expect the internal amp of ipod to be crappier than ak120. adding an appropriate amp to each would most likely bring about improvement.

imo portable gear prices are quite hyped up. it's in a different scale with desktop/headphones setup and also full scale speakers setup. ie $1k on a portable gear may not give you a $1k equivalent of hifi separates.

for portables, i think the dac is always within the dap itself. amp then is separate item. not sure if there's a dedicated portable dac?

 

[kenz]

From what you guys are saying, the price of entry for the AK120 is really for the DAC and not the amplifier. Still, I find it surprising as my comparison was with an ipod which I assume has a pretty crap amplifier too.

Anyway, if it's only for the DAC, I can accept the price differential for the performance.. I do think that moving from a $500 DAC to a $1.5k DAC has only semi-marginal improvement for stereo gear, so probably similar for portable hifi too.

Just to give a reference, I do own DACs from <$1k up to >$15k for my stereo system.. maybe I'm more forgiving and just have to revise my expectations.


In this case, if the amp is the one that makes a bigger difference, isn't it better to get an external amp, even with the ipod? Wouldn't the same arguments apply?

Couldn't one also add an external DAC to the AK100 or ipod too? Just wondering, what's the highest end on external DACs anyway?

hmm.. it's not really about the price or the best hardware. More an understanding of the strength of the player's dac and how putting together with a amp can bring about synergy and better sonic, more than the individual component itself.

From my earlier mention, i've used a $300+ amp and a $900+ amp pairing with the AK120. Both bring about significant improvements, though different in their respective improvements.

With the TubeAmp TA1, it gave the AK120's signature a sweeter more euphoric tone. Soundstage is improved a little, and micro details more apparent.

With the ALO rxMK3B+ amp, the AK120 sonic gain greater soundstage improvement (than TA1), a more clinical sound (that some may like) and micro details are clear as can be.

And the interconnect used has significant impact to the sound.
Ya. The link between the player and amp, does make a difference.
Still baffles me but the results are pretty clear at least to my ears.

These observations are made with the JH13 pro customs.

It's very much how many are pairing their ipods with external amps or any other combination of gears. In this case, the subject was the AK120 instead of an ipod.

I have the a k120 currently and is currently considering if I should be amping it given Im already pretty happy with the sound.

Can you share what sort of improvements you experience when you amp it?

As above.

 

[Questor]

weng and kenz, thanks for sharing your inputs.

I went to E1 (and thanks to David for his patience) for a short while to hear different pairings and heard both the ALO and TubeAmp combo, but somehow still preferred the ipod's character. Once paired with the headphone amp though, the ipod becomes harder to listen to as it's less resolving and more harsh than the AK120.

Got more info from David though, which helps my understanding of portable hifi.. I was asking why Wolfson is used so much in DACs and he mentioned its low voltage.. I tend to forget the one main constraint is battery life. Obviously miniaturization restricts certain designs and also contributes to the price factor.

Hearing all the different combos still did not reach what I heard with the Fitear 335 though, and I may consider picking up a 334 (if I can hear one) first before proceeding further.


I know interconnects affect greatly.. wait till you hear about the things I play with normal stereo systems - even the LAN cable affects the sound.

 

[weng]

I went to E1 (and thanks to David for his patience) for a short while to hear different pairings and heard both the ALO and TubeAmp combo, but somehow still preferred the ipod's character. Once paired with the headphone amp though, the ipod becomes harder to listen to as it's less resolving and more harsh than the AK120

.....

Hearing all the different combos still did not reach what I heard with the Fitear 335 though, and I may consider picking up a 334 (if I can hear one) first before proceeding further.

It's all down to personal preference also. One man's meat is the other's poison. It's actually good that you prefer the ipod on its own. Can save some money

334... Easy. Just hook up with any of the 334 clan folks here (look at the fitear thread) and i'm sure they will glady meet up to let you try

 

[MrSenG]

weng and kenz, thanks for sharing your inputs.

I went to E1 (and thanks to David for his patience) for a short while to hear different pairings and heard both the ALO and TubeAmp combo, but somehow still preferred the ipod's character. Once paired with the headphone amp though, the ipod becomes harder to listen to as it's less resolving and more harsh than the AK120.

Got more info from David though, which helps my understanding of portable hifi.. I was asking why Wolfson is used so much in DACs and he mentioned its low voltage.. I tend to forget the one main constraint is battery life. Obviously miniaturization restricts certain designs and also contributes to the price factor.

Hearing all the different combos still did not reach what I heard with the Fitear 335 though, and I may consider picking up a 334 (if I can hear one) first before proceeding further.


I know interconnects affect greatly.. wait till you hear about the things I play with normal stereo systems - even the LAN cable affects the sound.

There's a FitEar Meet this Sunday at E1 I believe, detailed information was posted on the FitEar thread.

I love the 335's resolution as well, it has such great timbre and realism to the bass without sacrificing detail to the other frequencies. However, I found it a bit too genre-specific, like it was great for Rock (Foo Fighters, Linkin Park etc.) but found that the vocal wasn't as sweet as 334's when it came to vocals like Avril Lavigne, Lana Del Rey.

Just received my 334 yesterday, and I have to say, it's definitely more suited for a wider genre of music.

 

[widget]

Do drop by this Sunday for the mini FitEar meet-up at E1. Many butties partner their TG!334 with AK120 for minimalist portable solution.
I'm thinking of adding a portable amp to my AK120 to drive the Fostex TH600 for on the bed listening

 

[binabik]

Audition some RSA amps with the AK120...given some of the positive feedback on their synergy...

I came away very disappointed... The sound was very tiny, volume on the AK need to be almost up full before anything was audible. Volume on the RSA amp was about 60%... I'm not sure if this is the norm. Gain was set at Medium.

Was the volume on your AK tune to Max when you hook up the additional amp ?

hmm.. it's not really about the price or the best hardware. More an understanding of the strength of the player's dac and how putting together with a amp can bring about synergy and better sonic, more than the individual component itself.

From my earlier mention, i've used a $300+ amp and a $900+ amp pairing with the AK120. Both bring about significant improvements, though different in their respective improvements.

With the TubeAmp TA1, it gave the AK120's signature a sweeter more euphoric tone. Soundstage is improved a little, and micro details more apparent.

With the ALO rxMK3B+ amp, the AK120 sonic gain greater soundstage improvement (than TA1), a more clinical sound (that some may like) and micro details are clear as can be.

And the interconnect used has significant impact to the sound.
Ya. The link between the player and amp, does make a difference.
Still baffles me but the results are pretty clear at least to my ears.

These observations are made with the JH13 pro customs.

It's very much how many are pairing their ipods with external amps or any other combination of gears. In this case, the subject was the AK120 instead of an ipod.




As above.

 

[Questor]

weng, MrSeng, widget, thanks for the welcome.. am aware of the meet-up but may not be available to make it. Adding a portable amp definitely helps the AK120, IMO.. or maybe it just allows me to customised the sound.

From what everyone says, the 334 and 335 are quite close in character.. I don't mind a drop in bass. It's possible I can buy it blind even, but I just want to hear the K3003 first, but from experience I think when I hear something I like, it's very likely that's the choice already.


widget, interesting you are so deep into head-fi. I think I know you from one of the SVS MO I organised many years ago, and as a focal user also? Not playing much on this front?

Personally I heard the TH900 and like it though it's abit gentle sounding. The nice (and also bad) part about head-fi is that you can collect many pairs.. if I had to sit down to listen though, I'd still prefer speakers or a stax.

 

[MrSenG]

weng, MrSeng, widget, thanks for the welcome.. am aware of the meet-up but may not be available to make it. Adding a portable amp definitely helps the AK120, IMO.. or maybe it just allows me to customised the sound.

From what everyone says, the 334 and 335 are quite close in character.. I don't mind a drop in bass. It's possible I can buy it blind even, but I just want to hear the K3003 first, but from experience I think when I hear something I like, it's very likely that's the choice already.

Just met someone that collected both his 334 and 335DW yesterday at Jaben, he was also quite disappointed that both sounded very similar and was confused as to what to do with the 334. I suggested that he keep it for casual listening, especially since UIEMs are great for situations where you have to remove your IEMs often to carry out a conversation etc.

I also like the AKG K3003, it offers quite an aggressive sound signature, with very good details and energetic treble. I would say it's quite similar to the JH13. However, the fitting and cable can be quite an issue to some. Overall, definitely worth the demo, do try the various filters.

 

[widget]

......

widget, interesting you are so deep into head-fi. I think I know you from one of the SVS MO I organised many years ago, and as a focal user also? Not playing much on this front?

Personally I heard the TH900 and like it though it's abit gentle sounding. The nice (and also bad) part about head-fi is that you can collect many pairs.. if I had to sit down to listen though, I'd still prefer speakers or a stax.

Hi bro,
Glad to see you here.
I've migrated to head-fi few years back...
and also migrated from echoloft and extremeplace to HWZ and Head-fi
Sold my stereo set-up but still kept the SVS sub that was bought from your MO.
The sub is still going strong bro after all these years

 

[spectral]

anyone using pro EQ?
normally I wouldn't use EQ on any dap but these 2 days of using pro EQ really makes ak120 sounded more refine in instruments.

 

[sidrpm]

anyone using pro EQ?
normally I wouldn't use EQ on any dap but these 2 days of using pro EQ really makes ak120 sounded more refine in instruments.

Really?

I also barely used EQ but I will give the proEQ a try.

 

[MrSenG]

anyone using pro EQ?
normally I wouldn't use EQ on any dap but these 2 days of using pro EQ really makes ak120 sounded more refine in instruments.

Ever since I bought the unit and tried both no EQ and ProEQ, I've never gone back to no EQ, I feel it adds `body' to the music and like you said, instruments/vocals feel more refined, very reminisent of DX100's 1.4.2 firmware.

 

[FatalethaL]

It really depends on which genre of music you are using with Pro-EQ.

If you're talking about mainly music with vocalist in it, and not use many instrument which produces mid-high to high freq, then yea, it is good.

but from my experience, Classical with Pro-EQ totally killed almost everything in the mids-high section (eg flute, clarinet, oboe, etc)



so i guess its time for some experiment for you guys to determine when and which music to enable Pro-EQ.

*atm, i'm not using Pro-EQ

 

[sidrpm]

Does format and quality (hires vs standard 16bit vs mp3) also make a difference in the impact/requirement of eq or no-eq?