Am i getting ripped off from the insurance in my portfolio?

[BBCWatcher]

1) You should consider future value of potential expenses to be incurred. Not income.

It's worth considering both.

2) You need to consider likelihood of making the claim. Toto also can give you $2M of potential earnings or income.

Sure...and your likelihood of making a disability income insurance claim without disability income insurance is definitely zero.

3) You need to consider premiums paid.

Sure.

4) Then decide if potential payouts is worth the premiums.

All correct, but this is also true of every other insurance product. There's nothing different here in that respect.

What is different is that this catastrophe (disability and lifetime loss of income) is, for most early and mid career adults, the very worst possible catastrophe -- or the worst possible that can be insured against, at least. It's worse than death, financially speaking. (Lingering is more expensive.) Lots of people buy life insurance, perhaps even too much of it, and don't even really question its necessity. So why all the resistance to DII? I'm not making any radical argument here. Disability and loss of lifetime income is, indeed, more financially devastating to a household -- including a household of one -- than death.

 

[maple96]

1) You should consider future value of potential expenses to be incurred. Not income.

2) You need to consider likelihood of making the claim. Toto also can give you $2M of potential earnings or income.

3) You need to consider premiums paid.

4) Then decide if potential payouts is worth the premiums.

No need to waste your time with someone who only know how to use primary school level logic to argue. He cannot even answer your simple questions, with stats or figures, why it is remote or likelihood of claim.

All he knows is will lose millions of future income. Even a person die will also lose millions of future income, but most people only buy term for 1m max?

He has plenty of money to fund the insurers and agent's lifestyle, let it be

 

[Epidemik]

I can quote for a few company. And you will realise you are over paying for the aia power cc.
Multipay does covers eci and ci, what do you mean by combo? And by the way 28 is age next birthday or next birthday is 29?

Hello. Oh, sorry for the confusion. When I say combo it means multipay. Meaning ECI and CI in 1 plan alone. Just like Aviva.

Next birthday is 29, which is in 2021

Thank you so much!!

 

[boredboiboi]

Hello. Oh, sorry for the confusion. When I say combo it means multipay. Meaning ECI and CI in 1 plan alone. Just like Aviva.

Next birthday is 29, which is in 2021

Thank you so much!!

Ok. Will quote for u a few companies

Here you go
Female age next birthday 29 non smoker
100k till age 75 multipay

Company A - $1452/year
Company M - $1413.10/year (premium is BEFORE 5% perpetual discount) promo ends at 19 june.
Company T - $1553/year
Company X - $1125/year (does not pays extra for late stages while the others does)

 

[oceanicmanta]

personally wld just get CI cover til 65yo or 70yo ...

getting married, hopefully to someone who has served NS would make available low cost insurance schemes provided by Mindef GTL

by retirement, one should have built up savings + CPF etc so CI hit wld not be as draining as in earlier years

in our culture, could also depend on our children in our golden years

 

[mummynew]

Ok. Will quote for u a few companies

Here you go
Female age next birthday 29 non smoker
100k till age 75 multipay

Company A - $1452/year
Company M - $1413.10/year (premium is BEFORE 5% perpetual discount) promo ends at 19 june.
Company T - $1553/year
Company X - (does not pays extra for late stages while the others does)

Your quotation is for life payment or?

I have an Aviva multipay for my girl same age as TS that was bought with entry age at 26.

It comes with enhanced two times cover (basic $100K) with multipay CI cover at $50K till 85 yo.

Premium is $8149 for 10 years premium years (total premium $81490).

I noted for $100K cover, the premium seems to increase by about $100 per year for life payment terms (for those age 20 - 30 which is my 'experience range' since I am currently only able to see young adults' quotations of my kids, nieces and nephews). So would encourage TS to commit before next bday (and if possible, to backdate commencement date to get a lower rate).

*This is a gift to my girl with my spare cash. I bought till 85 yo coz nowadays it seems modern human just live for too long a life (may have 'quantity' with 'quality' uncertain).

 

[boredboiboi]

Your quotation is for life payment or?

I have an Aviva multipay for my girl same age as TS that was bought with entry age at 26.

It comes with enhanced two times cover (basic $100K) with multipay CI cover at $50K till 85 yo.

Premium is $8149 for 10 years premium years (total premium $81490).

I noted for $100K cover, the premium seems to increase by about $100 per year for life payment terms (for those age 20 - 30 which is my 'experience range' since I am currently only able to see young adults' quotations of my kids, nieces and nephews). So would encourage TS to commit before next bday (and if possible, to backdate commencement date to get a lower rate).

*This is a gift to my girl with my spare cash. I bought till 85 yo coz nowadays it seems modern human just live for too long a life (may have 'quantity' with 'quality' uncertain).

The one you bought is a rider under aviva wholelife plan as you mentioned limited pay.

The 1 i quote is standalone multipay. Multipay rider currently only 2 company allows it to be a rider under a main plan. The rest are mostly standalone multipay. That a wonderful gift for your child. Not many parents can afford that high premium.

Backdate can be done up to 6 months. And TS mentioned her next birthday is 2021 thus if she wants to backdate, I believe should be still within the allowable backdate period.

 

[BBCWatcher]

Even a person die will also lose millions of future income, but most people only buy term for 1m max?

Evidently you don’t understand the difference between death and disability, so let me help you: death means you no longer require food, clothing, shelter, medical care, or any other necessities of daily living. That’s because you’re dead. Disability means you still need all the necessities of daily living, but (if work impactful) you don’t have the ability to support yourself or anyone else economically. If you need life insurance, you need disability insurance more. (And you also need disability insurance if you only need to support your disabled self when nobody else will or should.)

Life insurance and disability income insurance markets are competitive in Singapore, with multiple carriers selling multiple products. If any carrier is overcharging (premiums too far in excess of claims risks), another carrier can undercut that carrier, win more marketshare, and make more profit. DII is not a new product in Singapore. (Great Eastern has been selling it for decades now.) The government is practically shouting from the rooftops about how important disability insurance is, and so are myriad financial advisors here in Singapore who have no vested interests. Including me: it’s super important for the large majority of early and mid career adults. It’s the very first insurance you should look at as a Singaporean, given that you have MediShield Life by default. This is just not a fun place to be if you’re disabled: a high cost of living and an extremely limited social safety net. This class of risks is gigantic, the biggest you’ll likely ever face that insurance can mitigate at least reasonably well.

From the very first day I could buy it I bought a DII policy, starting with 2/3rds income replacement (fixed nominal) to age 65. I’ve since been able to dial that down, but early career at least it’s a no brainer.

 

[BBCWatcher]

in our culture, could also depend on our children in our golden years

I don’t know which “culture” you’re talking about, but it’s definitely not Singapore’s. Singapore’s total fertility rate is 1.20 last I checked, either the lowest in the world or vying for lowest.

Even if burdening children were a good idea, where are the children?

 

[mummynew]

The one you bought is a rider under aviva wholelife plan as you mentioned limited pay.

Oh, maybe better for me to show the breakdown (coz so far all multipay covers I have seen are as riders):

1. Whole Life Death/Terminal Illness (enhanced two times till 70 yo) - $100K at $2691 (total premium $26,910)

2. TPD think till 65/70 yo - $100K at $162 (total premium $1620)

3. CI Advance for life - $100K at $1120 (total premium $11,200)

4. Multipay CI till 85 yo - $50K at $4176 (total premium $41,760)

 

[boredboiboi]

Oh, maybe better for me to show the breakdown (coz so far all multipay covers I have seen are as riders):

1. Whole Life Death/Terminal Illness (enhanced two times till 70 yo) - $100K at $2691 (total premium $26,910)

2. TPD think till 65/70 yo - $100K at $162 (total premium $1620)

3. CI Advance for life - $100K at $1120 (total premium $11,200)

4. Multipay CI till 85 yo - $50K at $4176 (total premium $41,760)

Ya that the reason for the high premium. You are squeezing 60 years of premium(26-85) into 10 years. For this case i would rather increase the base of another 50k or 100k and add eci rider. Which will have 100k or 200k eci payout instead of 50k multipay( need to claim 2 to 4 times in order to hit 100k or 200k) and premium is way cheaper for a entry age of 26 for eci rider

 

[mummynew]

Ya that the reason for the high premium. You are squeezing 60 years of premium(26-85) into 10 years. For this case i would rather increase the base of another 50k or 100k and add eci rider. Which will have 100k or 200k eci payout instead of 50k multipay( need to claim 2 to 4 times in order to hit 100k or 200k) and premium is way cheaper for a entry age of 26 for eci rider

I do have another $100K WL with $50K ECI policy for her. Entry age at 19 yo. Premium was cheap at $2024.90 for 20 years (total premium $40,498). This one my girl took over the premium payments after she started working.

If there is a single pay then i will do a single pay but this particular policy shortest pay years is 10. Coz it's a gift and so I want to pay and get done with it (in case I die tmr then my girl has to carry this baby).

*so far I have seen some friends who claimed ECI (mostly female cancers + 1 prostate cancer). It is good to have some extra money to 'enjoy' a bit during that stressful recovery period (all recovered except three who died of nose, lung, and liver cancers within 3 years of diagnosis. All successful individuals who passed before 50 yo with overall medical/surviving period cost about $300K - $1+ mil).

 

[boredboiboi]

I do have another $100K WL with $50K ECI policy for her. Entry age at 19 yo. Premium was cheap at $2024.90 for 20 years (total premium $40,498). This one my girl took over the premium payments after she started working.

If there is a single pay then i will do a single pay but this particular policy shortest pay years is 10. Coz it's a gift and so I want to pay and get done with it (in case I die tmr then my girl has to carry this baby).

*so far I have seen some friends who claimed ECI (mostly female cancers + 1 prostate cancer). It is good to have some extra money to 'enjoy' a bit during that stressful recovery period (all recovered except three who died of nose, lung, and liver cancers within 3 years of diagnosis. All successful individuals who passed before 50 yo with overall medical/surviving period cost about $300K - $1+ mil).

Single pay have but does not have eci/ci rider. Purely for death/tpd. And break even guaranteed @ year 30. 80% of premium is guaranteed from day 1

 

[rrr2015]

omg … why more people are getting cancer when our standard living are getting better?

is overall medical/surviving period cost based on private or public hospital?

*so far I have seen some friends who claimed ECI (mostly female cancers + 1 prostate cancer). It is good to have some extra money to 'enjoy' a bit during that stressful recovery period (all recovered except three who died of nose, lung, and liver cancers within 3 years of diagnosis. All successful individuals who passed before 50 yo with overall medical/surviving period cost about $300K - $1+ mil).

 

[oceanicmanta]

I don’t know which “culture” you’re talking about, but it’s definitely not Singapore’s. Singapore’s total fertility rate is 1.20 last I checked, either the lowest in the world or vying for lowest.

Even if burdening children were a good idea, where are the children?

孝.

You are clearly not brought up in the same culture so you can be forgiven for your ignorance in dismissing it.

 

[BBCWatcher]

You are clearly not brought up in the same culture so you can be forgiven for your ignorance in dismissing it.

That’s not an answer. You’ve claimed that Singapore has a “horse culture,” in essence. OK, interesting, so where are the horses? We can count them! A national TFR of 1.20 means gobs of Singaporean adults never reproduce — they don’t have children, ever. You cannot financially rely on children that don’t exist even if that were a good idea. And even with one child (the median), that’s a single point of frequent failure.

Thankfully our government understands and appreciates our actual, frequently childless (and definitely child limited) culture, which is a big reason why CPF LIFE was born.

And yes, as it happens I was born and grew up in a country with a much higher Total Fertility Rate than Singapore’s. Which means if there is a child culture I’m much more likely to understand it. But that’s a dumb argument too. It’s just less dumb than yours.

What next? You want to make the claim that Singapore is the only country that loves children? The children that don’t actually exist, but we love them!

 

[oceanicmanta]

OMG horse ?? LOL

what ignorance

 

[Mecisteus]

*so far I have seen some friends who claimed ECI (mostly female cancers + 1 prostate cancer). It is good to have some extra money to 'enjoy' a bit during that stressful recovery period (all recovered except three who died of nose, lung, and liver cancers within 3 years of diagnosis. All successful individuals who passed before 50 yo with overall medical/surviving period cost about $300K - $1+ mil).

If chance of claim is high, then your premiums are likely to be higher too.

Let's put it this way. If insured are expecting to make windfalls from insurance payouts, then insurance companies will go out of business.

It should be the other way. Generally, insured are expected to lose money while insurance companies are expected to make money.

Just have some basic insurance coverage. In SG, we already have Medishield and Careshield soon.

 

[Kaypohji]

Ironically insurance is not truly to protect people.

They only insure ppl who has very low chance of claiming. It’s like a sure win business.

Those who need the protection the most are usually being rejected or with ridiculous loading.

I would have thought the premiums already factor in the whole pool of buyers that there are more ppl who don’t claim than those who claim... but apparently they only sell to people who they think most likely won’t claim

If chance of claim is high, then your premiums are likely to be higher too.

Let's put it this way. If insured are expecting to make windfalls from insurance payouts, then insurance companies will go out of business.

It should be the other way. Generally, insured are expected to lose money while insurance companies are expected to make money.

Just have some basic insurance coverage. In SG, we already have Medishield and Careshield soon.

 

[Mecisteus]

Sure...and your likelihood of making a disability income insurance claim without disability income insurance is definitely zero.

Yes if you don't buy Toto, your likelihood of striking Toto is definitely zero too.

I was saying striking Toto and striking DII payouts are very low probability events.