Another convert to property! :)

[undiscern]

I guess if you want to use property as an investment and to get positive cashflow, your down payment should be at least 40%.

 

[cybercom8]

I guess if you want to use property as an investment and to get positive cashflow, your down payment should be at least 40%.

and that huge 40% downpayment may enjoy better returns in other investments based on current market trends

 

[WhyPayMore]

unless you have a few properties in your hand, the increase of property price will make sense to you. otherwise, for average joe, the paper gain doesn't make you richer. you sold out the house and you will end up buying another property as expensive as your selling price.

IMO, property investment doesn't bring meaningful growth to the societies. It makes people becoming slothful and less self-motivated. People no longer interested in working and hard work. instead they are dreaming on 'Financial Freedom' can happen on them, they become a leecher and hopefully they can enslaving the tenants on rentals so that they can retire early. Some are lurking around in the forums and hope their post can increase the property price. They will become sensitive to opposite opinions and label them as 'spreading fear'.

This is the tragedy of modern society. People enjoy the luxury in the expense of middle-class people as well as future generations. think about it, your children will spend the rest of their life to pay for housing loan, worst still they will stay with their parents forever until they inherited the house.

like it or not, the price has to go down. or else, the future generation will be collapse.

spend 50% of your mind on your investment, another 50% for your future generations. unfortunately, many are spending 100% for themselves.

my 2 cents.

 

[WhyPayMore]

and that huge 40% downpayment may enjoy better returns in other investments based on current market trends

property investment is one of the most romantic fairly tales created by those property agents. don't forget, a house is a long term investment, you would need maintenance along the way, and many of here didn't put inflation and interest rate to their calculations. if you do that, you will get very pathetic rental yields for such an expensive investments.

on the contrary, stock market is relatively cheaper investment. With the right skill and right mind, one can easily get higher yield in stock market. hey, at least you are investing on some companies to expand their business and pursuing higher growth, which translate to higher GDP. you are doing a country good!

 

[focus1974]

Actually, investing in stock and thinking you have the capability to beat the market is the romantic tales espoused by the fund managers and equities industry.

For the fund managers, How many actually make it rich by compounding their returns instead of increasing their AUM.
For the professional traders, how many actually make it rich by making lots of money themselves with their own money. Instead of making outsized bets with the banks money and getting bonuses if they make their Profit target and getting fired or not getting a bonus for not making the cut.

We are talking about professional players in the market who is supposed to have an edge (in terms of information flow from the insiders and industries).

and really, go around and ask your colleagues and others. We are looking for man-on-the-streets. How many have the capability to analyse a stock and then handle the emotional and pyschological aspects of trading/investing.

Then a gut feel.. no hard statistics but just a gut feel. What is the probability of a man-on-the-street retiring from investing/trading in equities/bonds ?

Even index funds and asset allocation has been for decades but have you seen most of the man-on-street using it and sticking to the strategy for decades?

Disclaimer : I am a licensed agent (but have not done any agency work as I do not have the motivation to go out and do sales). But I have tried both equities (retire with annual dividend/coupon income of 6 digits thru equities/bonds since 2007) and properties investment(receiving 6 digits annual rental before selling them off) and this is my conclusion as I am the man-on-the-street. Of coz, what works for me may not work for the rest. Just expressing my point of view. No fear-mongering ok Again, have to highlight, property investment , you need to time the market as well as time in the market. So high risk , high return?

 

[WhyPayMore]

Actually, investing in stock and thinking you have the capability to beat the market is the romantic tales espoused by the fund managers and equities industry.

For the fund managers, How many actually make it rich by compounding their returns instead of increasing their AUM.
For the professional traders, how many actually make it rich by making lots of money themselves with their own money. Instead of making outsized bets with the banks money and getting bonuses if they make their Profit target and getting fired or not getting a bonus for not making the cut.

We are talking about professional players in the market who is supposed to have an edge (in terms of information flow from the insiders and industries).

and really, go around and ask your colleagues and others. We are looking for man-on-the-streets. How many have the capability to analyse a stock and then handle the emotional and pyschological aspects of trading/investing.

Then a gut feel.. no hard statistics but just a gut feel. What is the probability of a man-on-the-street retiring from investing/trading in equities/bonds ?

Even index funds and asset allocation has been for decades but have you seen most of the man-on-street using it and sticking to the strategy for decades?

Disclaimer : I am a licensed agent (but have not done any agency work as I do not have the motivation to go out and do sales). But I have tried both equities (retire with passive income of 6 digits thru equities/bonds since 2007) and properties investment(receiving 6 digits rental before selling them off) and this is my conclusion as I am the man-on-the-street. Of coz, what works for me may not work for the rest. Just expression my point of view. No fear-mongering ok

i guess your post is targeting on mine.

wait, there's two point you need to get clear:
1. i don't believe in investing in stock to get rich, same thing to property investment. what i am trying to tell you here is to grow money. and since we are talking about investment, we don't talk about beat the market as well.
Remember, what bring you wealth is your work. At least that's what i think.

2. i don't believe in retire early as well. Eg. retired in 40+ or 50+. some even earlier. I belive working is something that can bring meaning in life as well as to society. To me, investing stock with the mind of retired early is as silly as relying on rental so that you can wandering around whole day without working.

 

[V_for_Vanilla]

Property has another advantage over investing in stock market. And that is full control. You are your own board of director, chairman, and CEO. You do not have that kind of control over your stock investment unless you outright own the business or is a major shareholder. And being in the market long enough you will realise retail stock investors are always at the short end of the stick, where the only recourse is be nimble and try to get in or get out fast. So treat you property investment like a business, the control element alone is a big plus in the long run. Rental yield is one of many quantitative considerations but don't be too fixated on it, ditto a stock's dividend yield.

 

[focus1974]

i guess your post is targeting on mine.

Nope. I am just expressing my opinion and my own experience. Tat's why i did a disclaimer of what works might not work for others. I don't like to get egos involved and try to prove anyone wrong and making another enemy. My motto is don't get too personal. If i did offend, I apologize first. If you meet me in real life, i would be the type who would tell you my point and if you still prefer your point, i would agree with you too. Because I know I do not have the answer to the universe and I might be proven wrong later on.

You are right. Different strokes for different folks.

Like your point about retiring early. You are right about it. I want to get back into the workforce but nobody wants to hire me. I am just an average worker with no outstanding CV.

 

[RM2SSG]

You are right. Different strokes for different folks.

Like your point about retiring early. You are right about it. I want to get back into the workforce but nobody wants to hire me. I am just an average worker with no outstanding CV.

Very true. I'd opined that most people would be able to relate to property investment and find it relatively easier to analyse and understand. This of course does not translate to people knowing the risks associated with it; especially overseas one.

I for one would love to retire early, in my case, it's a matter of my inability to do so. Before I go too far off-topic, I'd just say; retired from work is not equal to retired from life. There are so many things we can do for ourselves and for others.

 

[Majestic12]

Surely you can parley that property experience of yours into something tangible and income generating?

Nope. I am just expressing my opinion and my own experience. Tat's why i did a disclaimer of what works might not work for others. I don't like to get egos involved and try to prove anyone wrong and making another enemy. My motto is don't get too personal. If i did offend, I apologize first. If you meet me in real life, i would be the type who would tell you my point and if you still prefer your point, i would agree with you too. Because I know I do not have the answer to the universe and I might be proven wrong later on.

You are right. Different strokes for different folks.

Like your point about retiring early. You are right about it. I want to get back into the workforce but nobody wants to hire me. I am just an average worker with no outstanding CV.

 

[Mecisteus]

property investment is one of the most romantic fairly tales created by those property agents. don't forget, a house is a long term investment, you would need maintenance along the way, and many of here didn't put inflation and interest rate to their calculations. if you do that, you will get very pathetic rental yields for such an expensive investments.

when you deal with interest rates or investment returns, you can safely take inflation rate out of the picture. because inflation rate is affecting every interest rates out there including your savings account. to make it simpler, just deal with nominal interest rates and nominal returns.

 

[focus1974]

Surely you can parley that property experience of yours into something tangible and income generating?

Buying property like a retail investor .. So nothing much I can offer.

Property agent job is more like sales. Most gravitate to whoever is paying them higher in comms. Ever wonder why most agents try to ask the folks to sell their HDB and buy 2 pte (and somemore must be new launch) in the name of retirement planning. Not all agents.. but there is an inherent conflict of interest between agents and buyer/seller. I joined an agency and I must say I am happy to be exposed to the inner workings and tricks of the trade , though I don't know all the tricks.

Conducting a course is something that requires public speaking and I am an introvert. hehe.. and most people like to hear conventional wisdom.

 

[Mecisteus]

Ever wonder why most agents try to ask the folks to sell their HDB and buy 2 pte (and somemore must be new launch) in the name of retirement planning. Not all agents..

This is especially true for all agents because sales is scarce right now.

I received so many advices telling me to sell my flat saying that I should cash out my HDB and to buy a private property.

I told them straight to the face. You are telling me to sell so that I can enrich your pocket?

 

[undiscern]

Actually no need argue. Each of us have own strategy. If it suits you and you are making money then carry on doing. For me both property and stocks are good. Property less monitoring needed, mortgage loan $1.2k, big chunk goes towards principal as I am using interest offset, rental $2.3k. No matter how you calculate I will always be in positive cash flow. If one day rental drop until $1k, it would mean economy is problematic and I doubt stock market will be in bull sentiment. Likewise if interest goes up, corporate profit will be hit too, likewise the stock price will be affected.

Stock is good, such as day trading, provided you have the time to monitor. For me I just get some bluechip and let it grow and grow abd go through tge cycle picking up dividen.

So, no perfect strategy one so dont be too critical lah.what suits you; carry on lor!

Buying property like a retail investor .. So nothing much I can offer.

Property agent job is more like sales. Most gravitate to whoever is paying them higher in comms. Ever wonder why most agents try to ask the folks to sell their HDB and buy 2 pte (and somemore must be new launch) in the name of retirement planning. Not all agents.. but there is an inherent conflict of interest between agents and buyer/seller. I joined an agency and I must say I am happy to be exposed to the inner workings and tricks of the trade , though I don't know all the tricks.

Conducting a course is something that requires public speaking and I am an introvert. hehe.. and most people like to hear conventional wisdom.

 

[cybercom8]

agents recommend some new developments because some desperate developers offering higher comms?

 

[wahkao3]

Disclaimer : I am a licensed agent (but have not done any agency work as I do not have the motivation to go out and do sales). But I have tried both equities (retire with annual dividend/coupon income of 6 digits thru equities/bonds since 2007) and properties investment(receiving 6 digits annual rental before selling them off) and this is my conclusion as I am the man-on-the-street. Of coz, what works for me may not work for the rest. Just expressing my point of view. No fear-mongering ok Again, have to highlight, property investment , you need to time the market as well as time in the market. So high risk , high return?

6 digits returns!???
Some ppl dont even have 6 digit portfolio

successful investor spotted!~!

 

[wahkao3]

Property has another advantage over investing in stock market. And that is full control. You are your own board of director, chairman, and CEO. You do not have that kind of control over your stock investment unless you outright own the business or is a major shareholder. And being in the market long enough you will realise retail stock investors are always at the short end of the stick, where the only recourse is be nimble and try to get in or get out fast. So treat you property investment like a business, the control element alone is a big plus in the long run. Rental yield is one of many quantitative considerations but don't be too fixated on it, ditto a stock's dividend yield.

i dont see this much as an advantage.

I only see it as advantage when the investment brings low risk and higher returns.

so tell me, how does it bring about lower risk and higher return?

 

[wahkao3]

when you deal with interest rates or investment returns, you can safely take inflation rate out of the picture. because inflation rate is affecting every interest rates out there including your savings account. to make it simpler, just deal with nominal interest rates and nominal returns.

yes true
inflation risk is migitated

 

[wahkao3]

Conducting a course is something that requires public speaking and I am an introvert. hehe.. and most people like to hear conventional wisdom.

when u hold your talk? i wan to attend , if free

 

[wahkao3]

Stock is good, such as day trading, provided you have the time to monitor. For me I just get some bluechip and let it grow and grow abd go through tge cycle picking up dividen.

i honestly do not think day trading and monitoring will reduce risk and increase returns


and dont be hard up over dividend!!