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davidktw

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Haha, you so bad. Take people money must help people clear their misfortune.

The only misfortune here is having you to so call help, but actually causing more damage to TS and also to the country education mentality.

这种不叫做“帮”,这种叫做“越帮越忙”。
连那么简单的道理都不懂,还能在这里大言不馋,真是有你的。

能跟我敌对,讲的头头是道,其实是一大堆的歪理,
亏你还能夸下海口,说自己是大学生,在工商管理有多年的经验,

读到了都不知你是读什么书的,
简直是学术界的耻辱。

我看你最好去温习一下三字经,好好的纠正你那不知所谓的想法,
可能还能对社会有贡献,对父母有交代,和你下一代有正道。

不然,有你或没你,都没差。
 
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Kyoji83

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To davidktw:

1) How do you know that if I am really unemployed now & etc which I may already have ask government bodies such as e2i, CDC-WDA & etc for help but they cannot do much to help me?

2) Since I am on my own now, my interest is to earn money from him to support me & my family.

3) Since he is on his own now, his interest is to pass his assignment to get a degree. He may have his own reason why he cannot do it which I do not want to step in cause he is not my family members & friends. End of day if he cannot get his degree that cause him not qualify to get a graduate position after wasting so much money & time, no one will pity him. So getting a degree now is his 1st priority.

4) '先有家,再有国,你连自己都故不好,还谈什么国家大事。连自己的道德都可以出卖,还有什么资格去批评国家的政策。' I like your words. If I have problem feeding my family, my 1st priority is to earn money. You think I care so much as national service & etc? '从根本做起,不要颠倒秩序。' As I say, I have problem with basic needs & you think I care about my Morality now? Base on my current situation, as long as I don't steal & rob is already good moral. Because of NSF, we waste 2 years of our life. Because of ICT, how many of us here have bad performance in workplace? So who am I protecting? Foreigners & Government that does not help me & my family? So am I '颠倒秩序' now? '先有家,再有国 ' but now I have family problem yet I am still force to serve NS instead of my country helping me & my family!

5) I teach ethical to my employees when I work as HR. So don't needs you to teach me what is ethical because business & reality matter more then ethical. When you find out that the whole company including the boss & HR are not ethical, are you still going to lodge an compliant about them? For me, I rather left the job or act blur did not see rather then to be sack by them & let them black mouth me.

6) Don't tell me about bright or honourable cause it only for the rich, scholar & elite. I have so many certs, awards & medals but I cannot exchange for foods to eat cause no one want to buy from me this crap & it only take up space. Simi is award. Simi is nation? Limpei is Formation nsmen of the year award holder & this is what I get for protecting my nation as unemployed sinkie?

7) Limpei have this book to teach my children “养不教,父之过。教不严,师之惰。子不学,非所宜。幼不学,老何为” so that they do not see the cruel world first & let them handle this when they are old enough. Limpei don't needs you to teach me how to teach a child when I am a father and I do not needs you to teach me how to be a son when I am old enough to be a father.
 

davidktw

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To davidktw:

1) How do you know that if I am really unemployed now & etc which I may already have ask government bodies such as e2i, CDC-WDA & etc for help but they cannot do much to help me?

2) Since I am on my own now, my interest is to earn money from him to support me & my family.

3) Since he is on his own now, his interest is to pass his assignment to get a degree. He may have his own reason why he cannot do it which I do not want to step in cause he is not my family members & friends. End of day if he cannot get his degree that cause him not qualify to get a graduate position after wasting so much money & time, no one will pity him. So getting a degree now is his 1st priority.

4) '先有家,再有国,你连自己都故不好,还谈什么国家大事。连自己的道德都可以出卖,还有什么资格去批评国家的政策。' I like your words. If I have problem feeding my family, my 1st priority is to earn money. You think I care so much as national service & etc? '从根本做起,不要颠倒秩序。' As I say, I have problem with basic needs & you think I care about my Morality now? Base on my current situation, as long as I don't steal & rob is already good moral. Because of NSF, we waste 2 years of our life. Because of ICT, how many of us here have bad performance in workplace? So who am I protecting? Foreigners & Government that does not help me & my family? So am I '颠倒秩序' now? '先有家,再有国 ' but now I have family problem yet I am still force to serve NS instead of my country helping me & my family!

5) I teach ethical to my employees when I work as HR. So don't needs you to teach me what is ethical because business & reality matter more then ethical. When you find out that the whole company including the boss & HR are not ethical, are you still going to lodge an compliant about them? For me, I rather left the job or act blur did not see rather then to be sack by them & let them black mouth me.

6) Don't tell me about bright or honourable cause it only for the rich, scholar & elite. I have so many certs, awards & medals but I cannot exchange for foods to eat cause no one want to buy from me this crap & it only take up space. Simi is award. Simi is nation? Limpei is Formation nsmen of the year award holder & this is what I get for protecting my nation as unemployed sinkie?

7) Limpei have this book to teach my children “养不教,父之过。教不严,师之惰。子不学,非所宜。幼不学,老何为” so that they do not see the cruel world first & let them handle this when they are old enough. Limpei don't needs you to teach me how to teach a child when I am a father and I do not needs you to teach me how to be a son when I am old enough to be a father.

You know something, while there are numerous people working daily with a low salary, at least some of these people whom may honour their integrity and character is what most of us should be proud of. They work hard each day making the days meet. They may not have a luxurious life, but at least upon the day they die, they can keep their chest upright.

You keep on claim that you are facing difficulty on life, have you ask yourself, by doing so, what would you have taught your kids at the end of the day ? Seriously I don't know if you are bull****ting on your plight, suppose it is true, that doesn't mean you should be doing what you are going to do. If this fella didn't not come asking for such nonsense, would you not have go and find other way out. So do you mean if someone is going to pay you 1 million to kill someone, or commit a crime, and you will just go do it ?

You still have choice no matter what, how low you want to stoop is up to you, not me. You don't need to be a scholar or highly educated to have honour and pride. I wonder what kind of impact it will eventually bring to your kids(since you say you have), that when they realise their parent is just a hypocrite, say something, but do something else.

They may forgive you, but do you think there is no discount to what you are in their life ? If they have respected you so far for what you are now, why for merely $700, destroy the impression of your kids upon you.

You go figure it out yourself. We can all quit this debate. Ultimately whom I am disgusted with in the first place is the stupid fella who asked for someone to help do his/her school assignment. But it seems you wanna "challenge" me by asking if I'm "Song Bo" to see you help TS.

As such, I replied I'm not emotionally bothered. After writing this message, I will still sleep soundly later and don't give a damn if you are going to accept the offer or not. If anyone is going to suffer the consequences, it is not going to be me. Directly will be you and TS, indirectly will be your family, last by not least, the educational standard of this country. Not forgetting, one more useless graduate that might graduate because of your doing. I rather TS fail his course and re-do it, than to add one more incompetent fella in the society.

People here keep on asking why the government do this and do that. Why citizens are not privileged people in this country. But everybody ask yourself, 你有为自己真气吗?不要一再怨他人,好像自己努力了似的。

So conclusion, go do what you want. I can't stop you, no one can. Only yourself. Do as you deem fit, Okay ?
 
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Kyoji83

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Well, what is education mentality when I & other EM3 students study Science & have tests & exams at school level but not given PSLE exam at national level? MOE SHORTCHANGE US!!! If government is doing this to us at primary school, why can't undergraduate have that education mentality?

Since he trust me so it is not “越帮越忙” & I am not that weak.

It does not care if you are a Hons graduate from NUS or I am a graduate with year of experiences cause end of day whether you can get a job or even a graduate position is another question. I ever recruit a NUS graduate with 2 years of working experiences in that same contract job but Hiring Manager only offer her $2.2K for the same contract position (Dip level). And yes, she is a PRC. So is the big deal for being a graduate like me, you or even her? It is more like what use can this paper help me then 读什么书的!

学术界的耻辱? Am I? If you happen to be one of the students/trainees I teach/train, do you belong to 学术界的耻辱 too?

What 社会有贡献 you want me to give? Apart from economic contribution, I also contribute to national defend until I am recognize & awarded Formation nsman of the year award. You got serve NS or not? Have you make a significant impact to be recognize for your contribution to Singapore such as national defend like me?

对父母有交代,和你下一代有正道? I remember government ask us to sent our parent to JB Nursing home because it is cheaper there & I hear even can used CPF to pay for it. Is this 对父母有交代 and my 下一代有正道?


The only misfortune here is having you to so call help, but actually causing more damage to TS and also to the country education mentality.

这种不叫做“帮”,这种叫做“越帮越忙”。
连那么简单的道理都不懂,还能在这里大言不馋,真是有你的。

能跟我敌对,讲的头头是道,其实是一大堆的歪理,
亏你还能夸下海口,说自己是大学生,在工商管理有多年的经验,

读到了都不知你是读什么书的,
简直是学术界的耻辱。

我看你最好去温习一下三字经,好好的纠正你那不知所谓的想法,
可能还能对社会有贡献,对父母有交代,和你下一代有正道。

不然,有你或没你,都没差。
 

Kyoji83

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1) I have so many licences & any 1 of them I can try to find work & at least can earn near $2K or even more. The problem now is qualification & experiences to do this jobs is job mismatch. By entering into a much lower end job will result your career advancement such as expecting salary & etc. But I know when & what to do like down grading myself if I still cannot find a job in the near future.

2) When you ask me this question 'So do you mean if someone is going to pay you 1 million to kill someone, or commit a crime, and you will just go do it ?' I really want to troll by answering this. NS is teaching us to kill someone with much lower allowance & amount of money is not even there to be dare call salary or pay.

3) hypocrite? My children will not even know I do this in the first place. Yes, in fact I can tell them on their face when they are older that government did not even help us when we are down & if I do not do this, all of you may not even be alive to question me today.

4) To tell you the true, this is the first time I 'offer' my service online. However found out more needed my help. But I will still help because everyone have their own problem why they cannot score better or completed their project. I used to be a part time student & a full time worker with family commitment & really hard to completed my part time studies just to graduate with a degree paper. So I can understand the feeling which i hope to help them.

5) I can also sleep soundly & I don't think my family & I will suffer any consequences for my little action here.

6) educational standard of this country? Very questionable & laughable. Foreign students come to Singapore to study are mostly almost all under bond free scholarship & do not pay international fees to study here. Why? Our universities so lousy that no one willing to pay for it until we fly to their counties like china to offer them bond free scholarship? Why most of our Singaporean do not take up Master or Doctorate Degree in our universities but full of Foreigners wanted that piece of paper? My Singaporean NSF mate say he cannot enter because he have NTU 2.2 Hons question why he see his company have Foreigners have worst degree result then him can enter? Many Foreigners tell me degree can help them get PR when I work as HR.

You know something, while there are numerous people working daily with a low salary, at least some of these people whom may honour their integrity and character is what most of us should be proud of. They work hard each day making the days meet. They may not have a luxurious life, but at least upon the day they die, they can keep their chest upright.

You keep on claim that you are facing difficulty on life, have you ask yourself, by doing so, what would you have taught your kids at the end of the day ? Seriously I don't know if you are bull****ting on your plight, suppose it is true, that doesn't mean you should be doing what you are going to do. If this fella didn't not come asking for such nonsense, would you not have go and find other way out. So do you mean if someone is going to pay you 1 million to kill someone, or commit a crime, and you will just go do it ?

You still have choice no matter what, how low you want to stoop is up to you, not me. You don't need to be a scholar or highly educated to have honour and pride. I wonder what kind of impact it will eventually bring to your kids(since you say you have), that when they realise their parent is just a hypocrite, say something, but do something else.

They may forgive you, but do you think there is no discount to what you are in their life ? If they have respected you so far for what you are now, why for merely $700, destroy the impression of your kids upon you.

You go figure it out yourself. We can all quit this debate. Ultimately whom I am disgusted with in the first place is the stupid fella who asked for someone to help do his/her school assignment. But it seems you wanna "challenge" me by asking if I'm "Song Bo" to see you help TS.

As such, I replied I'm not emotionally bothered. After writing this message, I will still sleep soundly later and don't give a damn if you are going to accept the offer or not. If anyone is going to suffer the consequences, it is not going to be me. Directly will be you and TS, indirectly will be your family, last by not least, the educational standard of this country. Not forgetting, one more useless graduate that might graduate because of your doing. I rather TS fail his course and re-do it, than to add one more incompetent fella in the society.

People here keep on asking why the government do this and do that. Why citizens are not privileged people in this country. But everybody ask yourself, 你有为自己真气吗?不要一再怨他人,好像自己努力了似的。

So conclusion, go do what you want. I can't stop you, no one can. Only yourself. Do as you deem fit, Okay ?
 

davidktw

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Well, what is education mentality when I & other EM3 students study Science & have tests & exams at school level but not given PSLE exam at national level? MOE SHORTCHANGE US!!! If government is doing this to us at primary school, why can't undergraduate have that education mentality?

Carry on have this mentality, and this will make you a better man. If that is what you want to believe in, go ahead. I really don't think what I'm going to say or anymore will make you change what you want to stubbornly believe in. As far as I'm concern, I don't feel entirely bitter about the country I'm living in. I'm a very realistic person too, but while realistic, I'm hopeful. To date, this hopefulness of mine bring me no bitter in what I'm doing. While not entirely happy, I'm glad in what I'm doing. I feel okay at what I have accomplished and I'm respected in what I'm doing.

Since he trust me so it is not “越帮越忙” & I am not that weak.

That I don't know. For the benefit of doubt, perhaps you are right on this.

It does not care if you are a Hons graduate from NUS or I am a graduate with year of experiences cause end of day whether you can get a job or even a graduate position is another question. I ever recruit a NUS graduate with 2 years of working experiences in that same contract job but Hiring Manager only offer her $2.2K for the same contract position (Dip level). And yes, she is a PRC. So is the big deal for being a graduate like me, you or even her? It is more like what use can this paper help me then 读什么书的!

So it all make sense. The different between your thoughts and mine is I don't take any regard at the certificate at all. True enough the society we are living in depends on this piece of paper. Whether you like it or not, that's how it is going to work.

However for me personally, my certificate is not just a piece of paper. It is evidence; It is testament to what I have accomplished. This certificate tells me that I am worthy of it because of the knowledge that I have acquired. While every graduates hold the very same certificate like I do when they leave the institute, my certificate is heavy because I have acquired more knowledge than some that I'm aware of. I know this much is good enough, I don't need others to tell me how much my certificate weigh. When my employer see my certificate, it does not tell my employer how much I am worth. It only says I have graduated. It is the interview, the way I bring forth myself, the display of my confidence, the way I answer questions that is going tell my employer what I am capable of.

If after all these years of education, if all you learnt about from a piece of paper is it is everything, I feel you did not get the proper education that you are entitled to. When someone tell me he is graduated from blah blah blah, I take it with a pinch of salt. I make use of time to gauge and weigh.

That certificate can't get you anything, it is the knowledge and skill set from within you that is ultimately going to soar you or break you.

学术界的耻辱? Am I? If you happen to be one of the students/trainees I teach/train, do you belong to 学术界的耻辱 too?

Don't worry, I am confident enough to tell you, I'm not one of those trainees you have mentioned. I pride myself with knowledge that some are lack of.

What 社会有贡献 you want me to give? Apart from economic contribution, I also contribute to national defend until I am recognize & awarded Formation nsman of the year award. You got serve NS or not? Have you make a significant impact to be recognize for your contribution to Singapore such as national defend like me?

Contribution to the Nation comes to numerous form. If you have not realise it, then let me quote you a few. Contribution by bring pride to your family and your kids. Educate them by being a role model yourself. What you would have done is give a new lease of life and hope to this country. Contribute in monetary form thru country taxes, donations and even your purchasing power. There are a lot of other forms, even keeping the country clean and promoting your own country, having pride in your country is a form of contribution. It doesn't necessarily must be money that counts.

对父母有交代,和你下一代有正道? I remember government ask us to sent our parent to JB Nursing home because it is cheaper there & I hear even can used CPF to pay for it. Is this 对父母有交代 and my 下一代有正道?

Yah government government government. Wake up from your utterly unnecessary government bitterness. You think but putting "government" at every statement you make is going to explain anything. Piety towards your own parent is your own doing. Government tell you go and die, are you doing to go and die ? Why you care what the government tell you, don't you god darn have a mine of your own. Everything government say... Really tired of your whining. Take care of your parents because you love them, not take care because you need to. Go figure out where your silly reasoning are.

I learnt that I need to be filial to my parents and will take care of them till they pass on, not because government need me to do, or because relatives see that I need to be. They love you when you are young, they nurture you when you need them, it is only rightful you do that WITHOUT OTHERS TELLING YOU WHAT YOU NEED TO DO.
As a matter of fact, I learnt that I need to be as such because my parents are also acting as such to their own parents, my grandparents. This much I can tell you that how important as a role model parents need to be to their children. If you still don't get what I'm driving at, then don't regret when your children are not to your expectation.

Like I have already said. Do as you deem fit. You can say all you want. You can convince yourself that you are doing the right. Go do it.

If all you want is argue what government has made you become, then why is it not happening to me? We are under the same government, in fact based on your nick number of 83, assuming you are born in 1983, you are even younger than me. I don't see how we are different in terms of era, hence what you have experienced is not so much different from what I did. So why am I standing on the other side of the fence, while you are making so many bitter reasons to justify what you are doing is right?

It only explain this, I don't think I am any better than you are, nor did I received any special treatment from the government. The only difference is our perspectives. That is why we took different routes and end up different lifes. You have made your choices, I have made mine. Today this is where I am standing and u r standing at where you are.

You keep on complaining about the government short-changed you, so why didn't I feel the government short changed me? Maybe the government short changed both of us, yet I look at the positive side and make my situation better, while you choose the negative one and ruin your own chance.

Either way what is more important is what you are going to do, not what has been done. You can still choose, be what you are going to be and live with the consequences. Not need to say more, 要做兵还是做贼,只是一念只差
 
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davidktw

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1) I have so many licences & any 1 of them I can try to find work & at least can earn near $2K or even more. The problem now is qualification & experiences to do this jobs is job mismatch. By entering into a much lower end job will result your career advancement such as expecting salary & etc. But I know when & what to do like down grading myself if I still cannot find a job in the near future.

The only mismatch is in your character.

2) When you ask me this question 'So do you mean if someone is going to pay you 1 million to kill someone, or commit a crime, and you will just go do it ?' I really want to troll by answering this. NS is teaching us to kill someone with much lower allowance & amount of money is not even there to be dare call salary or pay.

Troll then. Why don't you do so. See what your flawed reasoning are and how you are different from me ? I don't see NS teaching us killing. I see NS teaching us how to protect your own love one and the pride of your own country. That is how your thought and mine exactly differs. That is what set us apart. I think you really need to see more depth into your life. 2.5 years in the NS for me is not easy either. There are down times and good times. There are happy times and sad times. But most importantly the summary of my NS life is it makes me strong, mature my character, strength my will. People says you waste 2.5 years, I say I gain 2.5 years of knowledge that no books can teach you. I see further than what I expected of. I see unreasonable behaviours from some stupid people in the army and I learnt this is some characters that I can choose not to be. The very same thing can hold 2 radically different thoughts.

I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.

Thomas A. Edison

Read more at I have not failed. I've just... at BrainyQuote

So it's up to you on what you want to believe in.

3) hypocrite? My children will not even know I do this in the first place. Yes, in fact I can tell them on their face when they are older that government did not even help us when we are down & if I do not do this, all of you may not even be alive to question me today.

Yes the government did not help you. It's always the government did not help you. When are you going to leave government out of every god darn thing that happened in your life ? I bet the government didn't help you to wipe your backside too! Stop whining for god sake.

Know something ? Hypocrisy start with the following statement "My children will not even know I do this in the first place...."

4) To tell you the true, this is the first time I 'offer' my service online. However found out more needed my help. But I will still help because everyone have their own problem why they cannot score better or completed their project. I used to be a part time student & a full time worker with family commitment & really hard to completed my part time studies just to graduate with a degree paper. So I can understand the feeling which i hope to help them.

Then let me tell you another TRUTH, don't make it your FIRST. Don't even let it happen. I think you don't understand the meaning of HELP. When you HELP someone, you make them a better person or you HELP to make the situation better. While you may have make TS situation BETTER in the near future; In essence, you DID NOT HELP TS at all. You make TS a lousy student, a liar and also make TS a debit to this society. If you are genuinely trying to help TS, teach "TS HOW TO WRITE THE ESSAY, NOT WRITE THE ESSAY FOR TS".

Teach the fella how to fish, not give the fish to the fella. Please don't spread your crook reasonings.

5) I can also sleep soundly & I don't think my family & I will suffer any consequences for my little action here.

Perhaps.... 不是不报只是时候未到

6) educational standard of this country? Very questionable & laughable. Foreign students come to Singapore to study are mostly almost all under bond free scholarship & do not pay international fees to study here. Why? Our universities so lousy that no one willing to pay for it until we fly to their counties like china to offer them bond free scholarship? Why most of our Singaporean do not take up Master or Doctorate Degree in our universities but full of Foreigners wanted that piece of paper? My Singaporean NSF mate say he cannot enter because he have NTU 2.2 Hons question why he see his company have Foreigners have worst degree result then him can enter? Many Foreigners tell me degree can help them get PR when I work as HR.

Hello please wake up. Stop whining... But it's okay. I have said enough. Everything must put infront of you, spoon feed you, then is consider helping ? Keep on whining about government this and that.... Okay yes government sucks, so how ? Have you wake up ?

It seems you have the tendency of keep on expecting fair treatment. Let me tell you something, I also don't find it fair. I don't find it fair, why you can keep on whining like a baby about the education system, when the every same education system I'm in, I don't whine. Am I treated differently by the government.

I accepted the fact that nothing in this world is fair. If you want something fair, fight for it, don't just whine over it. I fight for the comfort in my life. I fight for what I feel should be mine. I fight for the very same reason I'm typing here in the forum for something I believe in. Have you seen a single statement from me how the government make my life worse ? Not thing the government didn't, it's just how you look at things. If you really haven't figure it out, then I can only feel sorry for you that the government is FOREVER going to make life difficult for you until your last breath, not mine though.
 
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stan216

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@david: how did you know TS is from nus? just shoot an email to a higher up in the faculty...

some douche did the same in my poly days; he uploaded a worksheet in the java programming forums expecting people to do it for him, and a member of the forum sent an email to one of the higher up staff in school. i don't know what happened to that student, but i knew it happened because my lecturer said something like this to the class: "i hope none of you uploaded the worksheet to a forum, expecting people to do it for you."
 

davidktw

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@david: how did you know TS is from nus? just shoot an email to a higher up in the faculty...

some douche did the same in my poly days; he uploaded a worksheet in the java programming forums expecting people to do it for him, and a member of the forum sent an email to one of the higher up staff in school. i don't know what happened to that student, but i knew it happened because my lecturer said something like this to the class: "i hope none of you uploaded the worksheet to a forum, expecting people to do it for you."

Unfortunately I'm no longer in NUS :) Actually I did mis-read when reading TS first post, thinking TS is from NUS. After all TS is just asking from a NUS student, not necessarily TS must be from NUS. I reply to this thread after I read the same request in another forum found at http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/nus-305/looking-someone-do-my-assignment-4117182.html#post74271607

Nevertheless I have no intention to expose by emailing to TS institute even if I know. While I don't condone such acts, TS is not the recipient of why I wrote my post to publicly shame TS.

My proper recipients should be others whom is reading this thread to realise the importance of proper mentality towards education and how one should exercise their own proper judgement towards it.

It never was a government initiative that one should study. neither should it start with the parents. Nonetheless parents should understand education is for the better of their offspring and get it started. Education after all is a self realisation process that falls beyond books and exams. Education is only successful when thru this process, one built character, confidence and knowledge that can allow one to step out of the perimeter that was drawn for him or her. Passing exams or graduating with any form of certification is only 小成, known as small achievement. When one uses the acquired education to contribute significantly to around him/her and the society, to make good use of it, to spread it and to realise dreams and hopes beyond, then it will be 大成, great achievement.

Take note. I know there are some many narrow minded people thinking education is 读书考试. Read it carefully, the actual word "education" is 教育, meaning "teach" the "young". It never really says what is to be taught. Generally we consider it a process of enquiry, known as 增长见闻.
 
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walsly

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From a neutral POV, both sides made some sense. Sometimes in life, you have to cheat to win. But what comes after will be the moral issue. Is it right or wrong? Different people have different views to it i guess..

Good writeup from David btw... as for kyoji..your counter-argument lacks substance lahhh. everything govt this govt that... Not that you're wrong or what but life is always unfair.. i'm not going into the details for this anyway...

something that i would like to point out(not a personal attack btw), kyoji , u mentioned that u r a grad in Bsc Biz mgt. But from most of yr replies u always derail from the topic, quoting some stuffs that r totally irrelevant or weakly-related to backup your claims...(same in other threads too) If u wana present a solid argument then u gotta work on this field man.. You mentioned you've years of experience in working, surely you have to do presentations / analysis write-ups to your peers/bosses right....

As for david, i dont know why but somehow i feel that your replies to kyoji reek of anger. At some point, it seems that you're shaming kyoji of his upbringing n character. Everybody have their own views to a certain matter.Maybe i misinterpret it wrongly but this is just a virtual forum where every1 exchange their opinions so take a chill pill guys. :s22:
 

davidktw

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From a neutral POV, both sides made some sense. Sometimes in life, you have to cheat to win. But what comes after will be the moral issue. Is it right or wrong? Different people have different views to it i guess..

Good writeup from David btw... as for kyoji..your counter-argument lacks substance lahhh. everything govt this govt that... Not that you're wrong or what but life is always unfair.. i'm not going into the details for this anyway...

something that i would like to point out(not a personal attack btw), kyoji , u mentioned that u r a grad in Bsc Biz mgt. But from most of yr replies u always derail from the topic, quoting some stuffs that r totally irrelevant or weakly-related to backup your claims...(same in other threads too) If u wana present a solid argument then u gotta work on this field man.. You mentioned you've years of experience in working, surely you have to do presentations / analysis write-ups to your peers/bosses right....

As for david, i dont know why but somehow i feel that your replies to kyoji reek of anger. At some point, it seems that you're shaming kyoji of his upbringing n character. Everybody have their own views to a certain matter.Maybe i misinterpret it wrongly but this is just a virtual forum where every1 exchange their opinions so take a chill pill guys. :s22:

I see. Indeed I may have slightly over-reacted, however with a good justification, if I may explain.

TS may be ignorant, not understanding what Education means in his/her life. But for someone like "kyoji83" to help in such manner, does more damage to the society than TS. TS ignorance will only damage him/herself. But "kyoji83" actions promote actions that is most unforgivable. Whatever his reasons may be, why he need to resort to such acts, to support himself and his family, that has utterly nothing to do with the main issue at stake here.

It is generally correct that different people have unique perspectives to a thing. I concur, but having different perspectives doesn't make alternatives perspectives right.

In light that "kyoji83" may bring more harm than TS, I find the need to breath down his neck, stamp on such behaviour of promoting TS's ignorance. His irrelevant reasoning is an attempt to advocate on something so wrong and so damaging that I could not ignore and let it contempt the basic of education.

When you tell a lie a thousand times, it becomes the truth. As such, I am only doing my due diligence to prevent it from happening, at least within this thread.

Nonetheless I do take your advice that I could have express it with less aggressiveness towards "kyoji83", but in the heat of the debate, I may have been too pushy. For this much, I shall relent and give him some room for adjustment. However my stand holds as far as my intentions are.
 

Kyoji83

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davidktw:

1) I feel that you are one of the hypocrite person who like to preach about how good in life because of positive thinking. I strongly don't believe that you don't KPKB in your life without even a second of negatives thinking.

2) Since you have stereotype mind which let you suspect that I am born in the year of 1983 which you claim that you are older then me. Let assume that I am born in year of 1983 (30 year old this year) & you born in year of 1982 (31 year old this year). Why are you still studying as a senior student of NUS when you are so old?

  • Fail Sec 5 NA GCE O = 17 year old
  • Pass Nitec = 19 year old
  • Pass H.Nitec = 21 year old
  • Pass Poly Dip = 24 year old
  • Pass Double/Bach/Hons Degree = 27/28/29 year old
  • Plus 2 year of NSF = 29/30/31 year old.

Maybe this is your education path way? If this is the case, Government must be good to let you study in a local university even if it take a much longer path with zero working experiences when I start to work full time in the workforce when I am 21 year old.

3) So even if you are older then me, it does not seem that you are mature enough to tell me how working society work because you are lack of the experiences to start with. So please wake up your idea & stop telling me story you make up of when you have no experiences to share!

4) As working adult, I study part time so many years to get a degree like other schoolmates. Almost everyone can tell you that they study part time (even if they hold a full time job & even family commitment) because they just want to get that degree paper to get a graduate position with higher salary. If you did not graduate, no matter how good your skill, knowledge & experiences you have, you cannot get a graduate position with higher salary. No one really give a **** to learning process because our skill, knowledge & experiences can thrash what our lecturer teach for the module.

5) The newest version of leadership is not about 'teaching them how to fish instead of giving them a fish for a meal' but to also teach them 'how & where to find fishing spot'. If factors such as time permit, of course I teach "TS HOW TO WRITE THE ESSAY, NOT WRITE THE ESSAY FOR TS" but problem is not enough time. Same thing apply in work place. If you are pair up to a mentor & your project due date is near, you mentor will choice to do it first for your & submit to the HOD before teaching you how it work & etc. Problem is no time. Do you have better suggestion to let him pass his project in this term? If no, keep your mouth shut.

6) I only learn moral education in primary school & lower secondary school. From ITE onward, I only learn trade skills & never did any subjects touch on moral education. Did you learn any moral education subject in your ITE/Poly/Uni? So please wake up & stop commenting like Confucius because you seem confused about our education in Singapore when in ITE/Poly/Uni education, we only learn trade skill & not moral education.

7) In order to defend our nation, we MUST kill the enemies who are invading our country. I learn bayonet fighting & doing push up shouting 'Kill', 'Kill', 'Kill'! Do you really serve your NSF or maybe you did not learn this because you did not attend a Pes A/B BMT? So not learn to kill then what we do? Let them kill us? I am very surprise how kin na (children) talk these days.

8) Stop telling me about the forms & story of contribution. I am only interest if you have make a significant impact to be recognize for your contribution to Singapore such as national defend like me? Yes or No? You talk about my children & contribution but question is do you have children to contribute to Singapore population for aging problem? If you do not have any of this, stop preaching about how to teach a father to teach his children & how to teach a recognize nation contributor to give contribution to his nation. I may give a flawed reasoning but with proven merit & credibility while you talk so much like an expert but can show none of your merit & credibility is really a useless person on 'merit & credibility'. I feel disgusted by your action.

9) By the way at thread 2 you tell us that you are a senior student of NUS & now on your newest thread 29 you tell us you are no longer in NUS. So what happen to you double headed snake? You still want to teach me about bright, honourable, Integrity, Character, Moral, Ethics & etc when your credibility is questionable? Get real, you are just a NATO person who show No Action & Talk Only. I feel disappointed when we debate for so long but yet all you can do is preach without showing any merit & credibility.
 

Kyoji83

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This is a forum where everyone share their point of view, experiences & knowledge behind a monitor screen. I do not really like to write thesis & research papers with reference quoting as an evidence. So I mostly just type what I think & feel about it since it does not affect my reputation in my real life which is a true me because I do not needs to lie to act like a professional which is the reason why my counter-argument lacks of substance & etc. Haha, the sad part is there is no price for wining in forum which is somehow a good part if I lose in forum (^^")

From a neutral POV, both sides made some sense. Sometimes in life, you have to cheat to win. But what comes after will be the moral issue. Is it right or wrong? Different people have different views to it i guess..

Good writeup from David btw... as for kyoji..your counter-argument lacks substance lahhh. everything govt this govt that... Not that you're wrong or what but life is always unfair.. i'm not going into the details for this anyway...

something that i would like to point out(not a personal attack btw), kyoji , u mentioned that u r a grad in Bsc Biz mgt. But from most of yr replies u always derail from the topic, quoting some stuffs that r totally irrelevant or weakly-related to backup your claims...(same in other threads too) If u wana present a solid argument then u gotta work on this field man.. You mentioned you've years of experience in working, surely you have to do presentations / analysis write-ups to your peers/bosses right....

As for david, i dont know why but somehow i feel that your replies to kyoji reek of anger. At some point, it seems that you're shaming kyoji of his upbringing n character. Everybody have their own views to a certain matter.Maybe i misinterpret it wrongly but this is just a virtual forum where every1 exchange their opinions so take a chill pill guys. :s22:
 

Kyoji83

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I am also an educator & last thing I want to thumb down is education. However my expertly is more on Industry Training where business is reality & outcome result is more important then moral education.

There is one article I come across where a Singaporean guy who hold a senior regional managerial position. He believed in training can develop a person to bring up productivity. However the fact is it take time & money which his reporting manager think it will be better to employ an experiences person who can do the job directly so it is productivity & save time.

Now it come to cost. When our government allow more foreigners to come to Singapore to work (with an open market without minimum wages & citizen first policy), employer have more variety of job applicants to choice from for a small blue collar position such as Technician. But most of the job applicants have qualification such as BEng & experiences such as Engineer which the final consideration is salary part. Whoever can take the job with lowest salary will get the job. Now productivity, time & cost are fix.

That Singaporean guy try to give a justification to prove it is important & worth to provide training to develop a person to bring up productivity however there are factors which is a barrier for him to move forwards.

Factors
  • How to measure Productivity?
  • The invoice cost for training & time sent on training is there to show as statistics.
  • The cheap labor cost that help to save operation cost make significant impact to show as statistics.

End of article. Now this is happening to SME. As for MNC, they believe in training to develop a person to bring up productivity however they always emphasize on lowering the cost as per instruction from top executive & management. Organization will still provide training to their employee because it is the job of HR, Manager & etc. However they are looking of cost. So this mean that the lower the cost, the lower the trainer can provide in training which compromise the education quality of the original purpose of training objective.

So it is always the end result is what matter in the working world.


I see. Indeed I may have slightly over-reacted, however with a good justification, if I may explain.

TS may be ignorant, not understanding what Education means in his/her life. But for someone like "kyoji83" to help in such manner, does more damage to the society than TS. TS ignorance will only damage him/herself. But "kyoji83" actions promote actions that is most unforgivable. Whatever his reasons may be, why he need to resort to such acts, to support himself and his family, that has utterly nothing to do with the main issue at stake here.

It is generally correct that different people have unique perspectives to a thing. I concur, but having different perspectives doesn't make alternatives perspectives right.

In light that "kyoji83" may bring more harm than TS, I find the need to breath down his neck, stamp on such behaviour of promoting TS's ignorance. His irrelevant reasoning is an attempt to advocate on something so wrong and so damaging that I could not ignore and let it contempt the basic of education.

When you tell a lie a thousand times, it becomes the truth. As such, I am only doing my due diligence to prevent it from happening, at least within this thread.

Nonetheless I do take your advice that I could have express it with less aggressiveness towards "kyoji83", but in the heat of the debate, I may have been too pushy. For this much, I shall relent and give him some room for adjustment. However my stand holds as far as my intentions are.
 

davidktw

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davidktw:

1) I feel that you are one of the hypocrite person who like to preach about how good in life because of positive thinking. I strongly don't believe that you don't KPKB in your life without even a second of negatives thinking.

Am I hypocrite, or are you plain stupid ? I think you are plain stupid. No one is saint in this world, no one would not at any time not hold negative thoughts. The main difference that make you a stupid dumb arse and me that makes me not whining about how the government has mistreated me is how I can 把愤怒变成力量, while you 每天怨天尤人。 You talk as if the world owe you something and the government owe you something. One more time. Please grow up, stop being a whining baby.

2) Since you have stereotype mind which let you suspect that I am born in the year of 1983 which you claim that you are older then me. Let assume that I am born in year of 1983 (30 year old this year) & you born in year of 1982 (31 year old this year). Why are you still studying as a senior student of NUS when you are so old?

  • Fail Sec 5 NA GCE O = 17 year old
  • Pass Nitec = 19 year old
  • Pass H.Nitec = 21 year old
  • Pass Poly Dip = 24 year old
  • Pass Double/Bach/Hons Degree = 27/28/29 year old
  • Plus 2 year of NSF = 29/30/31 year old.

Irrelevant. You have truly shown a lack of inference skill set. I don't have a stereotype mindset, but I do have a good idea what a bummer you are. I make the inference that you could(not exactly) be born in 1983, but never an absolute. Yet I don't know how you come to a conclusion that I am 1982 ? Where did you get this flawed idea ? Surely you guess ? A wild guess ? You are wrong, since I exactly know how old I am, thus your list of inferences is incorrect and strictly ignored.

Maybe this is your education path way? If this is the case, Government must be good to let you study in a local university even if it take a much longer path with zero working experiences when I start to work full time in the workforce when I am 21 year old.

Government is not only good to me, Government has given chance to all to grasp. If you didn't manage to grasp it, who do you have to blame except yourself. Don't whine. Please don't. It sounds like I'm advising a baby, doesn't make sense. So what if you start early ? When is wisdom an absolute proportional to age or your working experience ? Wake up your darn idea. Don't be a smart alex, actually you are not really that smart to start with.

3) So even if you are older then me, it does not seem that you are mature enough to tell me how working society work because you are lack of the experiences to start with. So please wake up your idea & stop telling me story you make up of when you have no experiences to share!

I am amused at how you concluded that I must have less experience than you are. So "smart"... Spend some time, go dig up all my past posting in HWZ. Then have a re-assessment of what I do and how long my working experiences are.

4) As working adult, I study part time so many years to get a degree like other schoolmates. Almost everyone can tell you that they study part time (even if they hold a full time job & even family commitment) because they just want to get that degree paper to get a graduate position with higher salary. If you did not graduate, no matter how good your skill, knowledge & experiences you have, you cannot get a graduate position with higher salary. No one really give a **** to learning process because our skill, knowledge & experiences can thrash what our lecturer teach for the module.

2 characters for you 可悲。

5) The newest version of leadership is not about 'teaching them how to fish instead of giving them a fish for a meal' but to also teach them 'how & where to find fishing spot'. If factors such as time permit, of course I teach "TS HOW TO WRITE THE ESSAY, NOT WRITE THE ESSAY FOR TS" but problem is not enough time. Same thing apply in work place. If you are pair up to a mentor & your project due date is near, you mentor will choice to do it first for your & submit to the HOD before teaching you how it work & etc. Problem is no time. Do you have better suggestion to let him pass his project in this term? If no, keep your mouth shut.

Let him fail, stupid idiot. TS has no calibre to make a stand in this harsh world. As such failing him is the best approach to make him think twice about what he should be doing. As for your approach, it is what we called 助纣为虐.

6) I only learn moral education in primary school & lower secondary school. From ITE onward, I only learn trade skills & never did any subjects touch on moral education. Did you learn any moral education subject in your ITE/Poly/Uni? So please wake up & stop commenting like Confucius because you seem confused about our education in Singapore when in ITE/Poly/Uni education, we only learn trade skill & not moral education.

lolx..... all these while, your defence is "I only learn moral education in primary school and &lower secondary school"!!! Oh my f...king god, you are such an ignorant fella. I feel so sorry for you, sincerely I really do, you are worse than TS. Tell you what, don't bother to try revoking what my opinion is on you. You are ultimate you know. So from the time you stop having official moral education since secondary school and it just stop there for you ? I really can't say more about your stupidity. Anyone read this part, I forgive you, please give a good laugh at this fella. We will all forgive you for not able to continue your moral education until in the tertiary education. That's EXACTLY why you need someone to remind you about MORAL and ETHICS in this nick of time.

Actually I think some of the kids may have more moral and ethics that you. 你刚写的一番话,读到了,让人决得你根本就是一个伪君子。只能叹息道德论存,完全在你得身上反映出来。

7) In order to defend our nation, we MUST kill the enemies who are invading our country. I learn bayonet fighting & doing push up shouting 'Kill', 'Kill', 'Kill'! Do you really serve your NSF or maybe you did not learn this because you did not attend a Pes A/B BMT? So not learn to kill then what we do? Let them kill us? I am very surprise how kin na (children) talk these days.

LOLx.... moron talking....

8) Stop telling me about the forms & story of contribution. I am only interest if you have make a significant impact to be recognize for your contribution to Singapore such as national defend like me? Yes or No? You talk about my children & contribution but question is do you have children to contribute to Singapore population for aging problem? If you do not have any of this, stop preaching about how to teach a father to teach his children & how to teach a recognize nation contributor to give contribution to his nation. I may give a flawed reasoning but with proven merit & credibility while you talk so much like an expert but can show none of your merit & credibility is really a useless person on 'merit & credibility'. I feel disgusted by your action.

No worries, I am equally disgusted but how you practice moral and ethics. If that is how you are, it's better you have no kids to start with. 不要悟人子弟呀!

9) By the way at thread 2 you tell us that you are a senior student of NUS & now on your newest thread 29 you tell us you are no longer in NUS. So what happen to you double headed snake? You still want to teach me about bright, honourable, Integrity, Character, Moral, Ethics & etc when your credibility is questionable? Get real, you are just a NATO person who show No Action & Talk Only. I feel disappointed when we debate for so long but yet all you can do is preach without showing any merit & credibility.

I was a senior student of NUS. I am in the alumni now. I believe my study as a student never cease even I have graduated, but you have not only graduated but definitely DEGRADED. If you are an university student, you have to be ashamed. Well I really don't have to response to such moron. But really for the sake of others reading this, you seriously have to reassess such a person without Integrity and fighting so hard to make his defence.

Back in the world war times, tell you what.

你简直是一个汉奸的典范,一个能道义放两旁,利字摆中间,不折不扣的伪君子。
 
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davidktw

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I am also an educator & last thing I want to thumb down is education. However my expertly is more on Industry Training where business is reality & outcome result is more important then moral education.

There is one article I come across where a Singaporean guy who hold a senior regional managerial position. He believed in training can develop a person to bring up productivity. However the fact is it take time & money which his reporting manager think it will be better to employ an experiences person who can do the job directly so it is productivity & save time.

Now it come to cost. When our government allow more foreigners to come to Singapore to work (with an open market without minimum wages & citizen first policy), employer have more variety of job applicants to choice from for a small blue collar position such as Technician. But most of the job applicants have qualification such as BEng & experiences such as Engineer which the final consideration is salary part. Whoever can take the job with lowest salary will get the job. Now productivity, time & cost are fix.

That Singaporean guy try to give a justification to prove it is important & worth to provide training to develop a person to bring up productivity however there are factors which is a barrier for him to move forwards.

Factors
  • How to measure Productivity?
  • The invoice cost for training & time sent on training is there to show as statistics.
  • The cheap labor cost that help to save operation cost make significant impact to show as statistics.

End of article. Now this is happening to SME. As for MNC, they believe in training to develop a person to bring up productivity however they always emphasize on lowering the cost as per instruction from top executive & management. Organization will still provide training to their employee because it is the job of HR, Manager & etc. However they are looking of cost. So this mean that the lower the cost, the lower the trainer can provide in training which compromise the education quality of the original purpose of training objective.

So it is always the end result is what matter in the working world.

In this whole passage, I only find the following words relevant to this discussion. You really have a problem focusing on topics.

outcome result is more important then moral education

你简直是一个汉奸的典范,一个能道义放两旁,利字摆中间,不折不扣的伪君子。
 

davidktw

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This is a forum where everyone share their point of view, experiences & knowledge behind a monitor screen. I do not really like to write thesis & research papers with reference quoting as an evidence. So I mostly just type what I think & feel about it since it does not affect my reputation in my real life which is a true me because I do not needs to lie to act like a professional which is the reason why my counter-argument lacks of substance & etc. Haha, the sad part is there is no price for wining in forum which is somehow a good part if I lose in forum (^^")

"So I mostly just type what I think & feel about it since it does not affect my reputation in my real life"

Reinforce "伪君子本色"

我觉得有点累了。要我在这跟一个弱智争辩不休,真的是有失我的仪态。你偏偏要把黑的说成白的,我也没办法。

不如这样。你全对了。你要自取其辱,随便你。你要自寻死路,请便。 我对你的想法完全不认同。

基本上你的道德观念,完全是扭曲的,自欺欺人,我真的为你的子女感到惋惜。

你走你的阳关道,我走我的独木桥。别了。


To other readers in this thread. I appreciate your LIKES over what I advocate and I hope indeed you also recognise the importance of education, moral and ethics.

人可以不知量力,但是要厚道。
若不能用真确的观念去衡量道德与利益,那你此生恐怕是白活了。
人生短短几十年,不管贫富,永远都是生不带来,死不带去。
留下的是你此生踏过的路,行过的事,还有一生的经历。
要流芳百世,還是遺臭萬年,你们自己选。
 
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Beta_Tester

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seriously this have been going on for a while.

Years ago i started a thread in edmw. Some ppl contacted me to ask for lobangs. To buy n sell the service.

Actually back in ITE/Poly days i already knew or heard ppl outsource their FYP.
 

chopra

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this is called sub contracting aka outsourcing.
very common
 
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