Astrea 8 bonds

[d5dude]

Hearsay primary dealers only entertain min 250k

Yes thats true.

 

[ninefile]

Hearsay primary dealers only entertain min 250k

odd lot very hard to sell one leh
i think the most recent with odd lot is GE at min 50K/lot

 

[BBCWatcher]

Just received an IOI solicitation from my RM for this thing, guide yield for the SGD tranche is 4 - 4.5%. I figure the final yield will likely end up close to the lower end at 4%, judging from the way IG and junk bonds have been trading recently.

If that sort of yield is true, I remain puzzled why so many local investors seem so willing to settle for such low risk premiums. Congratulations to those raising capital I guess.

 

[DevilPlate]

If that sort of yield is true, I remain puzzled why so many local investors seem so willing to settle for such low risk premiums. Congratulations to those raising capital I guess.

Then why institutions and AI individuals willing to buy CICT 10y SGD bond for measly 3.75%?

Retail investors don’t have much choices so i can understand.

 

[sglandscape]

If that sort of yield is true, I remain puzzled why so many local investors seem so willing to settle for such low risk premiums. Congratulations to those raising capital I guess.

HSBC issued callable perpetual at 5.25%, it's very low for the risk.

 

[BBCWatcher]

Then why institutions and AI individuals willing to buy CICT 10y SGD bond for measly 3.75%?

HSBC issued callable perpetual at 5.25%, it's very low for the risk.

It’s quite odd IMHO. My current thinking is that there’s no single reason, that it’s a combination of factors.

I’ve pointed this out before, but I’ll do it again. U.S. Treasury Inflation Protected Securities (TIPS) are currently offering real (after inflation) U.S. dollar yields of 2.0%+ across all maturities. Granted, TIPS are not Singapore dollar denominated. They will drift a bit off the Singapore dollar as the exchange rate bounces up and down. But they’ll exceed U.S. dollar inflation, by a lot. And that’s not a bad bet if you’re a conservative investor trying to protect a future real lifestyle, even a real lifestyle in Singapore. They’re also the safest available way to park U.S. dollars, have the biggest secondary market for bonds, are completely U.S. tax free (for non-U.S. persons resident in Singapore at least), and are denominated in the world’s most popular currency, the one that Amazon.com happily accepts for example.

Contrast TIPS that seem high yielding (and with real returns) with what seem to be low yielding Singapore dollar denominated bonds that offer no inflation defense whatsoever. If/when Singapore dollar inflation spikes — as it did in the COVID bounceback — you lose with a portfolio of nominal yielding bonds.

I’m not necessarily suggesting you load up on TIPS. I just think this is a strange situation, that both of these types of bonds at these yields exist at the same time. Kind of like how one bank is currently offering a 2 year fixed rate mortgage at 2.9% when higher yielding SGSes of comparable tenor exist. How is that possible?

 

[yiron]

Just received an IOI solicitation from my RM for this thing, guide yield for the SGD tranche is 4 - 4.5%. I figure the final yield will likely end up close to the lower end at 4%, judging from the way IG and junk bonds have been trading recently.

https://eservices.mas.gov.sg/opera/...c.aspx?shrID=00cee8ac343840069afeb72690123abc

Just took a quick glance at the prospectus, I think I will pass on this.

Thanks for sharing. Will probably give it a pass if at lower end of 4%.

 

[maumu]

is it possible for a non-AI to pump 250k to buy this, if it's easier? if so, what's the procedure like?

 

[abcde78]

is it possible for a non-AI to pump 250k to buy this, if it's easier? if so, what's the procedure like?

Y not just onboard AI?
Just sent doc online and it's done.

 

[maumu]

Y not just onboard AI?
Just sent doc online and it's done.

so simple? i tot must meet up with some bank rep... go through some documents... and listen to them selling some bank products as usual lol

 

[sglandscape]

It’s quite odd IMHO. My current thinking is that there’s no single reason, that it’s a combination of factors.

I’ve pointed this out before, but I’ll do it again. U.S. Treasury Inflation Protected Securities (TIPS) are currently offering real (after inflation) U.S. dollar yields of 2.0%+ across all maturities. Granted, TIPS are not Singapore dollar denominated. They will drift a bit off the Singapore dollar as the exchange rate bounces up and down. But they’ll exceed U.S. dollar inflation, by a lot. And that’s not a bad bet if you’re a conservative investor trying to protect a future real lifestyle, even a real lifestyle in Singapore. They’re also the safest available way to park U.S. dollars, have the biggest secondary market for bonds, are completely U.S. tax free (for non-U.S. persons resident in Singapore at least), and are denominated in the world’s most popular currency, the one that Amazon.com happily accepts for example.

Contrast TIPS that seem high yielding (and with real returns) with what seem to be low yielding Singapore dollar denominated bonds that offer no inflation defense whatsoever. If/when Singapore dollar inflation spikes — as it did in the COVID bounceback — you lose with a portfolio of nominal yielding bonds.

I’m not necessarily suggesting you load up on TIPS. I just think this is a strange situation, that both of these types of bonds at these yields exist at the same time. Kind of like how one bank is currently offering a 2 year fixed rate mortgage at 2.9% when higher yielding SGSes of comparable tenor exist. How is that possible?

It's also a view of SGD policy, where SNEER is on a gradual appreciation slope and how you get a lower nominal rate and implied real rate for SGD. Should the expectation change for whatever reasons, this would converge.

 

[BBCWatcher]

It's also a view of SGD policy, where SNEER is on a gradual appreciation slope and how you get a lower nominal rate and implied real rate for SGD. Should the expectation change for whatever reasons, this would converge.

Yeah, but I think the high quality sovereign real return bonds are more interesting in that sense. They’re explicit promises. Every high quality central bank makes implicit policy-related promises.

 

[d5dude]

If that sort of yield is true, I remain puzzled why so many local investors seem so willing to settle for such low risk premiums. Congratulations to those raising capital I guess.

This is not a local issue. Credit spreads are currently very tight in most countries, in fact Asia EM credit spreads are at a 17 yr low.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/BAMLC0A0CM

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/BAMLEMRACRPIASIAOAS

 

[d5dude]

so simple? i tot must meet up with some bank rep... go through some documents... and listen to them selling some bank products as usual lol

You can do it online in like 10 mins, no need to meet any bank rep. Also the min for this bond is 10k because this will be listed on SGX, investors dun have to go thru the wholesale market if they have less than 250k.

 

[BBCWatcher]

This is not a local issue. Credit spreads are currently very tight in most countries, in fact Asia EM credit spreads are at a 17 yr low.

Yeah, I just don’t think I agree with the current bond market consensus with these low spreads. I assume the consensus is basically, “Don’t worry! Rates are headed down soon, and cheaper money will help keep defaults in check.” Or something like that. I might be contrarian at these spreads if I were a bond market speculator, which I’m not.

 

[sohguanh]

In other forum the topic of currency exchange to invest in better coupon rate bonds say USD vs SGD denominated. It was raging as I post.

I noticed a pattern those that support USD despite the change to and from SGD are usually non-Sporeans. They don't even have CPF they are on work pass in Spore. It makes absolute sense to have USD as core investment as their next destination could be other countries out of Spore.

For local Sporean that do not aspire to migrate it maybe best to stick to SGD something you feel familiar with without worrying the later USD back to SGD.

That same group vocal on USD are silent on Chocolate and cpf related investment becuz they do not qualify or don't have. So readers always read posts taking into account the poster position. Bias is in all posters posts me included of cuz.

 

[chiokcc]

I previously posted the links to earlier Astrea discussions, and is repeating them here :

Previous threads on earlier Astrea bonds :

Astrea 3
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/astrea-iii-bonds.5402668/

Astrea 4
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/astrea-iv-class-a-1-retail-bond.5842615/

Astrea 5
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/new-astrea-v.6049182/

Astrea 6
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/official-astrea-vi-pe-bond.6473105/

Astrea 7
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/official-astrea-vii-pe-bond.6745790/

 

[chiokcc]

Astrea 6 balloting result for reference :

https://links.sgx.com/FileOpen/Astr...arch 2021.ashx?App=Announcement&FileID=652338

Apply <=8k get as applied (1:1 balloting ratio)
9k to 15k get 8k (1:1)
16k to 29k get 10k (1:1)
30k to 49k get 15k (1:1)

50k to 99k get 25k (1:2)
100k to 199k 30k (1:2)
200k to 499k 38k (1:2)
500k to 749k get 58k (1:2)
>=750k get 65k (1:2)

 

[chiokcc]

Astrea 7 balloting result for reference :

https://www.azalea.com.sg/storage/app/media/a7 ipo/News/announcement-astrea-7-us755m-bonds-3x-subscribed.pdf

 

[DevilPlate]

Astrea 6 balloting result for reference :

https://links.sgx.com/FileOpen/Astr...arch 2021.ashx?App=Announcement&FileID=652338

Sweet spot is press 30-50k