Career path for IT pros

[tokyofairies]

But I see many want to be the leader without going through the ropes. Every fresh grad wants to come in as PM and asking for exorbitant salaries.

Well said. indeed the industry need more leaders than mere workers. And it is exactly right that leaders doesn't move one away from technical skill sets. In fact one need to be even more skillful technical and more knowledgable since only those with strong technical foundation can teach their peers and also their team.

Leaders will soon realise their ambition to deliver good products is not just one person effort. To have a good team and good deliverables is to have a powerful team which only be lead by good tech lead.

群不能无首，能担当一个好的首领必须是个智者

 

[kellogs]

Unfortunately that is the problem.

When you first started working ... I guess it is ok to draw salary as a programmer but when you start to have young family and changes in programming technologies ... the added pressures for you to pick up new skills might be overwhelming.

I would recommend that with your current skill set, while working for someone .... try to start a sideline business based on your programming skill. Try to grow the sidelines business up to a point where you could leave your day job and would not affect your lifestyle.

In this way you could pursue your "geeky" stuffs and get rewarded well!

Good Luck!

Like many geeks, I enrolled in IT programmes in polytechnic and university because I liked programming and technical stuffs.

But reality sets in after entering the industry. It seems to me that in Singapore, one cannot hope to continue doing technical work after 5 years or so even as a senior engineer. The only route of progression in many companies for IT pros is to take on project management and be a project manager or team lead, which requires a totally different set of skills to do a different set of tasks e.g. manage people, manage vendors, plan project schedule, draft contracts. Technical skills are not valued much once beyond certain career stage, except enabling one to come up with a more accurate man-effort estimations through technical experience.

I wonder if my understanding is correct. Do all geeks have to bite the bullet and learn to do project management. Or there exist alternative career paths in certain industry or organizations for techies to continue doing hands-on works.

 

[santacalus]

IT is a technical, hard skill (as in opposite from soft skill).. like mechanical/electrical engineering, architecture (the building type), accounting, law, cooking, tailoring, plumbing etc..

Project management is experience, judgment, leadership, soft skills.. you need to know the components in a project and what they are for, but you do not need the technical skill to execute them.

I have observed some mechanical engineers at work.. they report to the operation manager who isn't hands on at all.. though the OM is a trained engineer but he has already moved up to the planning/leadership position. IT engineers and project managers are like that too.

I'm currently in the developer stage, because I love to have a technical hard skill and constantly level up as a developer. As time goes by, I will want to take on project management and sales too, but still continue to do development.

 

[santacalus]

But I see many want to be the leader without going through the ropes. Every fresh grad wants to come in as PM and asking for exorbitant salaries.

Just like the hordes of zero/low experience young grads who want to enter banking/finance industries asking for sky high salaries.. or work in sales expecting the same.

 

[lycheas]

This is a cultural problem...

I cannot imagine Apple, Google and Microsoft programmers being paid peanuts...
People in Singapore thinks that you cannot stay as a programmer after x years, therefore making it a reality. But elsewhere, developers stay developers even when they are old...

Personally, I have worked with programmers still playing a developer role in US companies, and their pay is no peanuts.... Go check those US job websites and you will know what I mean.

 

[d3n]

Personally, I have worked with programmers still playing a developer role in US companies, and their pay is no peanuts.... Go check those US job websites and you will know what I mean.

Sad truth you are in Singapore and that's how job market is like in Singapore.

whatever in US market, doesn't applies here much.

 

[koxinga]

Sad truth you are in Singapore and that's how job market is like in Singapore.

whatever in US market, doesn't applies here much.

To add a twist to this, I am told (one of my bosses is a ex-Silicon valley exec) that in the US market, yes, there are companies that are willing to pay for talented programmers and I mean, really talented top-tier programmers. If you are just average or mediocre, I don't think you get a better life in the States as a programmer. So unless you are good, the grass not necessarily greener.

Also, the key difference between us and the States is as a programmer, your skills may be more valued as you have the option to be part of the product development track. In Singapore, developers and programmers primarily support the development of enterprise systems for companies. In other words, you churn out code to solve business problems instead of building the next Microsoft or Google. From that perspective, rightly or wrongly, development work is seen as a cost to businesses rather than a product that can create value in itself.

 

[koxinga]

In any case, I don't have development or programming experience at all, although I ended up as PM in one point of my career. That's on the basis that I have fairly good business domain knowledge (I was the user rather than IT) before working for the supplier side. That helped because I knew the business better than some of the users I was working with and I could shape their requirements.

Currently left that behind me and am being the all-compassing role of "consultant" I am moving more into governance and compliance nowadays as I see greater value in those areas rather than pure PM.

 

[saysuzu]

not sure about singapore, but in US, developers are high valued and sought after..

 

[peterchan75]

Not sure if there is luck involved here....
I was involved in large IT project as one of the subject matter experts. Once the system went live, it freezed up. Because the freaking forecast change too fast. No matter how smart the team are, if it's not scope and design carefully, it will fall flat e.g. Apple Map, Obamacare etc. All systems will never be smooth at one go (teething problems )... it goes through many iterations to get it right.

 

[facesearch]

Looking for a Technical Partner

I'm pretty new to forum and please excuse me for joining this conversation. I've followed these threads with interest with regards to career in IT. Instead of pursuing a career, why not take some risks and go and build something. I've no experience in IT but I have spend some resources to develop an idea and pay some IT pros to develop a prototype. I hope to bring the idea and prototype to reality. I hope you guys who loves a challenge and wish to start something join me as technical partner.

 

[alastan]

Like many geeks, I enrolled in IT programmes in polytechnic and university because I liked programming and technical stuffs.

But reality sets in after entering the industry. It seems to me that in Singapore, one cannot hope to continue doing technical work after 5 years or so even as a senior engineer. The only route of progression in many companies for IT pros is to take on project management and be a project manager or team lead, which requires a totally different set of skills to do a different set of tasks e.g. manage people, manage vendors, plan project schedule, draft contracts. Technical skills are not valued much once beyond certain career stage, except enabling one to come up with a more accurate man-effort estimations through technical experience.

I wonder if my understanding is correct. Do all geeks have to bite the bullet and learn to do project management. Or there exist alternative career paths in certain industry or organizations for techies to continue doing hands-on works.

Sorry for necroing this thread, but 6 years on, is this still the current trend in Singapore. I am currently a computing undergrad but have doubts about career progression as a software developer, I will greatly appreciate if someone can shed some light on this.

 

[davidktw]

Sorry for necroing this thread, but 6 years on, is this still the current trend in Singapore. I am currently a computing undergrad but have doubts about career progression as a software developer, I will greatly appreciate if someone can shed some light on this.

Software engineer -> senior s/w eng-> tech lead -> solution architect -> tech consultant-> senior tech consultant -> principal consultant -> tech director.

The above is a possible avenue. What exactly would you like to know? Do you need to be hardworking? Yes
Do you need to be smart ? Yes
Do you need to keep improving yourself? Yes
Do you need good presentation skill set ? Yes
Do you need good soft skill ? Yes
Do you need savvy tech skill set ? Yes
Do you need passion ? Absolute

Anything more I can help ?

 

[alastan]

one cannot hope to continue doing technical work after 5 years or so even as a senior engineer. .

Thanks for the reply, I will like to enquire if the above is still the trend in Singapore, so there are little/no engineers past their early 30s who are still doing programming?

 

[davidktw]

Thanks for the reply, I will like to enquire if the above is still the trend in Singapore, so there are little/no engineers past their early 30s who are still doing programming?

What is “doing programming” to you? Sitting in front of the laptop, open an IDE, keeping typing away means you are programming?

Does your programming include designing software which include creating diagrams, presentation slides, documentation, discussing solution with clients? If so, then those are tech lead and solution architect roles.

How many times do you want to repeat creating the same module again and again which send email, or copy a file from point. A to point B, or encoding a video from AVI to H264?

How much can you achieve in 24hrs per day? Can you code a system worth 1million with just you alone? What is your value as a programmer in 20 years time that someone 20 years younger than you cannot achieve?

You have to really ask yourself these questions before you ask the question how long can I be a programmer?

For your information, I am a software developer of beyond 35 years old. But I can do more than just writing a software. I can still handle frontend and backend design which include modern technologies like Websocket, HTML5, SVG, Canvas. I can handle AWS infrastructure design, operations, backend design using Java, shell scripts, perl and python. More important my value in my company is I train and supervise junior developers and tech leads, and do tech presales to get projects for the company.

So you have to ask yourself, what does Programming means to you? I don’t do mundane stuffs not because I am alien to them, but because I love technologies and anything related to it are worthy to learn and use in my life

So whether you decide to stay in the same job you started 20 years ago, or you move up and into wider horizon is your decision and it will make or break you along the way.

 

[helloamberchan]

is it really true? i don’t think so leh

 

[davidktw]

is it really true? i don’t think so leh

Not sure how it works for you, but that is how it works for me

 

[alastan]

What is “doing programming” to you? Sitting in front of the laptop, open an IDE, keeping typing away means you are programming?

Does your programming include designing software which include creating diagrams, presentation slides, documentation, discussing solution with clients? If so, then those are tech lead and solution architect roles.

How many times do you want to repeat creating the same module again and again which send email, or copy a file from point. A to point B, or encoding a video from AVI to H264?

How much can you achieve in 24hrs per day? Can you code a system worth 1million with just you alone? What is your value as a programmer in 20 years time that someone 20 years younger than you cannot achieve?

You have to really ask yourself these questions before you ask the question how long can I be a programmer?

For your information, I am a software developer of beyond 35 years old. But I can do more than just writing a software. I can still handle frontend and backend design which include modern technologies like Websocket, HTML5, SVG, Canvas. I can handle AWS infrastructure design, operations, backend design using Java, shell scripts, perl and python. More important my value in my company is I train and supervise junior developers and tech leads, and do tech presales to get projects for the company.

So you have to ask yourself, what does Programming means to you? I don’t do mundane stuffs not because I am alien to them, but because I love technologies and anything related to it are worthy to learn and use in my life

So whether you decide to stay in the same job you started 20 years ago, or you move up and into wider horizon is your decision and it will make or break you along the way.

Thank you davidktw so much for your insight and advice!

 

[Littlewild]

is it really true? i don’t think so leh

It's true for some because it worked for me too. Your mileage may vary because we all work in different industries and doing different kinds of IT. Not all end up well.

+1 because I subbed to in this thread years ago.

 

[windwaver]

Sorry for necroing this thread, but 6 years on, is this still the current trend in Singapore. I am currently a computing undergrad but have doubts about career progression as a software developer, I will greatly appreciate if someone can shed some light on this.

Basically, age is a major factor in anybody's career. In Singapore, 35 onwards is considered 'old' and some sectors like tech it's even worse.

It's not a matter of how good you are but how the larger economy sees 'older folks' with a prejudice. There will always be a few lucky ones but the bigger picture always hold true most of the time.

Unfortunately, that's reality.