CPF Accounts Value Thread 2020

BBCWatcher

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This has nothing to do with annual limit which applies on a per member basis.
You've made that assertion repeatedly, but so far it's only yours. Now please provide a direct link to where the CPF Board makes that same assertion.

It will just cut off after 6 months because the OW limit has been hit. That's my understanding from the info provided online.
No, your understanding is inconsistent with the clear language that the CPF Board has published. I'll quote the CPF Board again:

CPF Board said:
This is because the Ordinary Wage (OW) ceiling is applicable on a “per employment” basis.
(Emphasis added.) That's "per employment," not "per member."

I suppose you could argue, if you really want, that the CPF Board doesn't actually mean what it clearly wrote, but isn't it your burden to provide reasonable evidence supporting surprises like that?
 

doody_

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You've made that assertion repeatedly, but so far it's only yours. Now please provide a direct link to where the CPF Board makes that same assertion.


No, your understanding is inconsistent with the clear language that the CPF Board has published. I'll quote the CPF Board again:


(Emphasis added.) That's "per employment," not "per member."

I suppose you could argue, if you really want, that the CPF Board doesn't actually mean what it clearly wrote, but isn't it your burden to provide reasonable evidence supporting surprises like that?

Here is the link to satisfy you. Hope you have a real life example to prove your point, since you are arguing against what the CPF website says.

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/employers/FAQ/employer-guides/hiring-employees/cpf-contributions-for-your-employees/FAQDetails?category=Hiring+Employees&group=CPF+Contributions+for+your+Employees&ajfaqid=2230518&folderid=17077

I know it's per employment. There's no rule saying the max OW contribution per month is $2220. It could be $4440, but I'm arguing that due to the Annual Limit, it will stop after 6 months.
 

decibel.

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Hi guys, sorry to interrupt. Could I check if I did cash top up 14K to SA and OA transfer in my lifetime, do I have to subtract those amount during withdrawal at 55?

Let's say FRS is 320K at 55. Then I raise SA shield one month before my birthday. RA created with 280K from OA and 40K SA.

1) After lower SA shield, it returns me 600K SA. Now is it I can only withdraw 600K - 14K or I can withdraw everything?

2) If I want ERS, can I move my OA transfer to RA till ERS? Or can only cash top up?

Thanks!

Sent from HUAWEI VOG-L29 using GAGT
 

BBCWatcher

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I know it's per employment. There's no rule saying the max OW contribution per month is $2220. It could be $4440, but I'm arguing that due to the Annual Limit, it will stop after 6 months.
That's your argument, but there's nothing in the CPF Board's employer guides that say "stop CPF deductions after X months once the CPF Annual Limit is reached" or anything like that. Where do you see that? Why would the CPF Board fail to publish that important payroll processing detail in its employer guides if it existed?

The AW calculation is also per employer, by the way. The CPF Board offers a special provision for employee transfers between affiliated companies in Singapore. Why would this special provision even exist if your hypothesis is correct?

How do employers coordinate their payroll deductions for CPF? Where are the CPF Board's instructions on how employers coordinate payroll deductions if your hypothesis is correct, that they stop contributions after X months? Where are the facilities so that each employer can check other contributions? For example, is there some (unknown to everyone, apparently) API that employers' payroll systems can access to coordinate deductions?

You've got a hypothesis, sure, but where's the evidence for it? Literally everywhere it can say it, the CPF Board says that compulsory contributions are calculated per employer, not per member. As linked to already, it then says that there are two special provisions: (1) an employee can optionally choose to opt out of his/her compulsory contribution share above the CPF Annual Limit (but, pointedly and clearly, not the employer's share), and (2) an employer, with the employee's informed consent, can transfer an employee within Singapore between affiliated entities while treating the two affiliated entities as a single entity for compulsory contribution calculation purposes.

Let's review the published CPF Annual Limit definition carefully:

CPF Board said:
CPF Annual Limit

The CPF Annual Limit is the maximum amount of CPF contributions that can be credited to an individual's account in a year. It consists of both the mandatory contributions (employer's and employee's share) and voluntary contributions.
First of all, this definition isn't quite true (or at least it's stretched pretty far, probably to the breaking point) even if you have one employer. The CPF Board considers contributions via the Additional MediSave Contribution Scheme (AMCS) to be Voluntary Contributions (capital V, capital C), and AMCS contributions can exceed the CPF Annual Limit of $37,740 (a figure the CPF Board routinely cites). So we already know this definition is suspect as literally written since it probably contradicts what the CPF Board has published elsewhere. The CPF Board isn't perfect. None of us are. Writing with clarity is hard!

When confronted with conflicting and suspect information, it's only rational and logical to assume that the more detailed information about specific terms and conditions -- specific guidance provided to employers on how to process CPF deductions, as a notable example -- is the more reliable information. If hundreds or thousands of employers were/are deducting CPF contributions incorrectly, it's reasonable and logical to assume that the CPF Board would be working hard to try to fix that. There's no such evidence.

However, in this case the formal definition can be interpreted consistently with the concurrent employer provisions. It says "employer's and employee's share" -- singular employer. It doesn't say "employers' and employee's shares," and it certainly could have said that. What happens when there are multiple employers? The CPF Board provides detailed written guidance, and we should be able to rely on it.
 
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henrylbh

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Here is the link to satisfy you. Hope you have a real life example to prove your point, since you are arguing against what the CPF website says.

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/employers/FA...your+Employees&ajfaqid=2230518&folderid=17077

I know it's per employment. There's no rule saying the max OW contribution per month is $2220. It could be $4440, but I'm arguing that due to the Annual Limit, it will stop after 6 months.

Hear from me who had salaries from 3 different companies in a group. It will not stop :s13: Better stop arguing with him. That time, he also insisted on the limit and only brought up AMC to prove his point ... nothing else. Knowing now, he provides link ..... :s13: Wish Terence2112 had not brought up this issue.
 
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maple96

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Hear from me who had salaries from 3 different companies in a group. It will not stop :s13: Better stop arguing with him. That time, he also insisted on the limit and only brought up AMC to prove his point ... nothing else. Knowing now, he provides link ..... :s13: Wish Terence2112 had not brought up this issue.

Wah Uncle Henry very rich! Still got special "payout" from gahmen, I very jelly leh :s13:

People come here to learn/share experience, not to be overwhelmed with extreme fear/greed or "endure" extreme psycho attacks, to be convinced!
 
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henrylbh

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Special 'payout' was history. Better not keep advertising me. I not rich :s13: I had to rent out my study room.
 

terence2112

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Sorry everybody for bringing this sensitive topic up. It’s really not done on purpose.
What I really wanna share is that there are many many reasons why someone’s CPF account can be fat. Having more then 1 mandatory compulsory contribution is one.

Again, having more then 1 mandatory contribution from an employer is rare. However, case in point, if I’m a employee by day and a Grab/GoJek driver by night, I would still need to pay my Medisave liability for the work being a PHV.

Peace everybody!
 

doody_

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Speaking about AMCS, I realised the limit has been raised to $2730 quietly. Finally fixed the "loophole" that civil service has been benefiting from all these years.
 
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Speaking about AMCS, I realised the limit has been raised to $2730 quietly. Finally fixed the "loophole" that civil service has been benefiting from all these years.
Can share more about this AMCS Bro doody_? I first time hear about this term.

Sent from Samsung SM-N960F using GAGT
 

zola25

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Care to enlighten what is that “loophole”? I didn’t know there was one.

Speaking about AMCS, I realised the limit has been raised to $2730 quietly. Finally fixed the "loophole" that civil service has been benefiting from all these years.
 
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