CPF Accounts Value thread

[henrylbh]

Have you compared your stock market return vs cpf return using 10 years time frame?

Ok TCSS. Stock return on cash quite bad the last few years. Unrealised loss wiped off all my 10 years of gain. But CPF investments fared better. Realised profit including dividends net of all charges came to $310k.

 

[henrylbh]

is worse investment but u still need a place to stay what

Stay is not investment. But I stayed and made

Bought first one and transferred to sibling at cost. Second one bought 220k and sold 650k. Third one bought 425k and sold 700k, Fourth one bought 642k and sold 880k. 5th one bought 328k and got offer for 350k. Now waiting to move in the 6th one bought at 440k. But damn hell, I don't know how the hell I still got NO money

 

[BBCWatcher]

You want to be property owner.... Not property debt owners.....

I disagree with this on both counts.

What you really want is simply to keep a roof that you always like over your head(s) sustainably for life. Coco Chanel lived at the Ritz in Paris for over 30 years, and she liked it. She rented by the day. She probably got an excellent rate, and she certainly got impeccable service. But if for any reason, any morning, she didn’t like staying at the Ritz Hotel, no problem. Wasn’t that a wonderful life? Absolutely! Chanel didn’t have any capital tied up in her home; she had perfect liquidity, even if she didn’t exercise it.

Lots and lots of Singaporeans (among others) live like Coco Chanel, except they do it rent free at the Parent Hotel.

Nobody “owns” a HDB unit, strictly speaking. Everybody is a lessor, for a maximum of 99 years.

For most people, long leases (such as HDB leaseholds) and ownership (freeholds) are imperfect defenses against inflation and against unwanted premature residential moves, and they allow somewhat more control (and return on investment) in appliances, fittings, and finishes. But if you have ample alternative defenses against inflation, if you don’t particularly care about (or even enjoy) possible residential moves, and if you like what the interior designer did with the place, then there’s not much value in long leases or freeholds. In fact, professionally it can be quite useful not to be too tied down, because you can more easily relocate to pursue career advancement opporunities around the world.

Anyway, there’s nothing magical about a long leasehold or freehold. If you’re willing to tie up the capital and it fits your needs and wants, great. But you should focus on what you’re really trying to achieve: keeping a roof that you always like (or at least tolerate) over your head, sustainably.

As far as debt, a cheap loan is perfectly fine, or even better than fine. Once in my life I was offered a zero interest loan (in an economy with some positive inflation) with no prepayment penalty, and of course I took the deal. Years later, just before the zero interest period elapsed, I paid off the loan in full since the interest rate was high enough to make the loan expensive from that point forward.

 

[OngHuatHuat]

310 k?

How much capital you used?

Ok TCSS. Stock return on cash quite bad the last few years. Unrealised loss wiped off all my 10 years of gain. But CPF investments fared better. Realised profit including dividends net of all charges came to $310k.

 

[Toni90]

I disagree with this on both counts.

What you really want is simply to keep a roof that you always like over your head(s) sustainably for life. Coco Chanel lived at the Ritz in Paris for over 30 years, and she liked it. She rented by the day. She probably got an excellent rate, and she certainly got impeccable service. But if for any reason, any morning, she didn’t like staying at the Ritz Hotel, no problem. Wasn’t that a wonderful life? Absolutely! Chanel didn’t have any capital tied up in her home; she had perfect liquidity, even if she didn’t exercise it.

Lots and lots of Singaporeans (among others) live like Coco Chanel, except they do it rent free at the Parent Hotel.

Nobody “owns” a HDB unit, strictly speaking. Everybody is a lessor, for a maximum of 99 years.

For most people, long leases (such as HDB leaseholds) and ownership (freeholds) are imperfect defenses against inflation and against unwanted premature residential moves, and they allow somewhat more control (and return on investment) in appliances, fittings, and finishes. But if you have ample alternative defenses against inflation, if you don’t particularly care about (or even enjoy) possible residential moves, and if you like what the interior designer did with the place, then there’s not much value in long leases or freeholds. In fact, professionally it can be quite useful not to be too tied down, because you can more easily relocate to pursue career advancement opporunities around the world.

Anyway, there’s nothing magical about a long leasehold or freehold. If you’re willing to tie up the capital and it fits your needs and wants, great. But you should focus on what you’re really trying to achieve: keeping a roof that you always like (or at least tolerate) over your head, sustainably.

As far as debt, a cheap loan is perfectly fine, or even better than fine. Once in my life I was offered a zero interest loan (in an economy with some positive inflation) with no prepayment penalty, and of course I took the deal. Years later, just before the zero interest period elapsed, I paid off the loan in full since the interest rate was high enough to make the loan expensive from that point forward.

Do u buy or rent in Singapore?

 

[Dividends Warrior]

This master has proven that CPF is not critical.
All of us should learn from him
https://masterleonginvest.blogspot.com/2018/10/very-little-cpf-savings-is-alright.html

 

[BBCWatcher]

Do u buy or rent in Singapore?

I won’t answer directly, except to point out that practically everybody rents in Singapore. Even most freehold owners are required to rent common spaces through their building maintenance fees. Landed freehold owners are the only true buyers, when you get right down to it. (And, except for Sentosa, it’s extremely rare that they’re non-citizens.)

These financial permutations are merely variations in how one pays for housing, and how much capital is tied up in housing. I’m not too fussed whatever somebody decides, but often the permutations are fairly arbitrary.

For example, why do we all (or most of us anyway) pay an electric bill every month? Couldn’t we strike a deal with some “Electricity Developer” and its agent to pump lots of capital into a fractional ownership of a power plant (or set of power plants) and then “own” our electricity supply on a 99 year basis, for example? Yes, I suppose we could reorganize Singapore’s electricity market along such lines, hand out lots of balloons, pay lots of sales agents to drive us around in expensive cars, have “electricity warming parties,” lobby the government to use Ordinary Account savings to fund electricity fractional “ownership” schemes.... We could do all that, I guess.

Why do so many mobile phone buyers still buy their phones on an installment plan, tied to a mobile service contract? Certainly many of them could pay for the phone up front and pay for the service separately, and yet.... It’s all very arbitrary, isn’t it? A $500 smartphone is “too much” capex, but a $1,000 refrigerator isn’t?(*) Weird, yet there it is.

Honestly, there’s way too much psychic energy invested in real estate, deeply emotional too. I’m pretty simple, especially when the goal is simple. I just want housing I like, I’m open minded in how I pay for it, and I have paid for property in a variety of ways, although never with high cost debt. Whatever makes financial sense. I’m not opposed to the way Coco Chanel paid for her housing, and I’m not opposed to landed freehold owners in how they consume housing. Or anything in between. Whatever makes the most financial sense in the circumstances. I happen to think the government’s one-time sweetest HDB BTO offer is a good offer for your primary and only residence if you’re eligible and able, but...it’s still renting (99 years prepaid on the unit and some fees to rent the common areas, effectively).

(*) I’m not joking, actually. In some countries you often rent appliances from the electricity company. How about TV set top boxes, for example? They cost $100 to $200 usually, but you often can’t buy them outright. You have to rent them. As another example, until the “Carterphone” decision in the United States, it was against AT&T and its local telephone operating companies’ policies to attach non-Western Electric equipment to their network. And you had to pay a monthly fee for the equipment. It was all about variations in how you pay, that’s all. Monopolies and oligopolies certainly have their preferences.

 

[Toni90]

I won’t answer directly, except to point out that practically everybody rents in Singapore. Even most freehold owners are required to rent common spaces through their building maintenance fees. Landed freehold owners are the only true buyers, when you get right down to it. (And, except for Sentosa, it’s extremely rare that they’re non-citizens.)

These financial permutations are merely variations in how one pays for housing, and how much capital is tied up in housing. I’m not too fussed whatever somebody decides, but often the permutations are fairly arbitrary.

For example, why do we all (or most of us anyway) pay an electric bill every month? Couldn’t we strike a deal with some “Electricity Developer” and its agent to pump lots of capital into a fractional ownership of a power plant (or set of power plants) and then “own” our electricity supply on a 99 year basis, for example? Yes, I suppose we could reorganize Singapore’s electricity market along such lines, hand out lots of balloons, pay lots of sales agents to drive us around in expensive cars, have “electricity warming parties,” lobby the government to use Ordinary Account savings to fund electricity fractional “ownership” schemes.... We could do all that, I guess.

Why do so many mobile phone buyers still buy their phones on an installment plan, tied to a mobile service contract? Certainly many of them could pay for the phone up front and pay for the service separately, and yet.... It’s all very arbitrary, isn’t it? A $500 smartphone is “too much” capex, but a $1,000 refrigerator isn’t?(*) Weird, yet there it is.

Honestly, there’s way too much psychic energy invested in real estate, deeply emotional too. I’m pretty simple, especially when the goal is simple. I just want housing I like, I’m open minded in how I pay for it, and I have paid for property in a variety of ways, although never with high cost debt. Whatever makes financial sense. I’m not opposed to the way Coco Chanel paid for her housing, and I’m not opposed to landed freehold owners in how they consume housing. Or anything in between. Whatever makes the most financial sense in the circumstances. I happen to think the government’s one-time sweetest HDB BTO offer is a good offer for your primary and only residence if you’re eligible and able, but...it’s still renting (99 years prepaid on the unit and some fees to rent the common areas, effectively).

(*) I’m not joking, actually. In some countries you often rent appliances from the electricity company. How about TV set top boxes, for example? They cost $100 to $200 usually, but you often can’t buy them outright. You have to rent them. As another example, until the “Carterphone” decision in the United States, it was against AT&T and its local telephone operating companies’ policies to attach non-Western Electric equipment to their network. And you had to pay a monthly fee for the equipment. It was all about variations in how you pay, that’s all. Monopolies and oligopolies certainly have their preferences.

Why you cant answer directly? U worried people will tell you that you stupid or what?

 

[havetheveryfun]

Why you cant answer directly? U worried people will tell you that you stupid or what?

dont understand directly still nvm, but still go on a long essay writing something that is totally not related from rent to electricity bills and mobile phones

 

[henrylbh]

TS stared this thread stating NPNT. After 4 posts with no substance and NP, he disappeared leaving others to TCSS.

At least, yyhwin and myself posted a pic for edmw

 

[castafarian]

hi guys, OT a bit. Can we use CPFIS to buy reits?

 

[henrylbh]

dont understand directly still nvm, but still go on a long essay writing something that is totally not related from rent to electricity bills and mobile phones

You should hear how the Americans salesmen go about talking about their products. Click any links to find out their style.

 

[luei74]

Mod should kick out this thread into EDMW seextion...

 

[henrylbh]

Do u buy or rent in Singapore?

Why need to ask? You can easily guess. It's their way of living that more than half Americans believe in renting than buying in their home country. Most American corporations doing businesses in Sg also prefer to rent and pack up when they want to.

 

[ocs_woodlands]

I have been tempted to post since yesterday

But got 2 things holding me back.
1) Waiting for the CPF interest leh....
2) TS seems to use the word big cannon loosely. I would think that big cannon is for those who can say things but cannot prove it. I must say a screen shot is probably sufficient proof and hence should not be classified as big cannon

 

[henrylbh]

My father big cannon or not?

See TCSS pic posted earlier. He got monthly payout of 2,204 NOW compared to those who got FRS of 171k now and monthly payout of about 1,300 in 10 years' time?

 

[OngHuatHuat]

I still more interested in your 310 k gain....
how much capital did you use?

My father big cannon or not?

See TCSS pic posted earlier. He got monthly payout of 2,204 NOW compared to those who got FRS of 171k now and monthly payout of about 1,300 in 10 years' time?

 

[henrylbh]

I still more interested in your 310 k gain....
how much capital did you use?

The capital then was no more than 300k. Last few years not much gain, except for dividends, when got stuck with Keppel at 12.56 and Lum Chang at 39c.

 

[OngHuatHuat]

The capital then was no more than 300k. Last few years not much gain, except for dividends, when got stuck with Keppel at 12.56 and Lum Chang at 39c.

means you have more than 600 over K in your OA now?

 

[OngHuatHuat]

This master has proven that CPF is not critical.
All of us should learn from him
https://masterleonginvest.blogspot.com/2018/10/very-little-cpf-savings-is-alright.html

Actually to a certain extent, he is successful, as in he managed to grab my attention at least.