CPF Top up questions

dork32

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There are many more options than SRS or Ah Long. Credit cards, savings, borrow from friends/relatives...

i have mentioned 0cash = no savings

credit card = legalized ah long

you not shy you can borrow from friends and relatives. and if you are those that borrow, frens and relative will avoid you like ah tiong.

srs is like a term or life insurance. you lose a lot when you cash out before it matures. however, it is one option that allows to tide over a crissis.
 

fr33d0m

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i have mentioned 0cash = no savings

credit card = legalized ah long

you not shy you can borrow from friends and relatives. and if you are those that borrow, frens and relative will avoid you like ah tiong.

srs is like a term or life insurance. you lose a lot when you cash out before it matures. however, it is one option that allows to tide over a crissis.

Hardly to imagine one with proper SRS planning can result in a 0 cash situation and no other option.

It only means the original SRS was already wrong.
 

JetStorm

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Valid points made by everyone here. But ultimately we all agree that there is no one strategy fits all.

Based on my current situation, the way i see it, i can do it 2 ways. Max SA first before doing my 3 fund portfolio... Or vice versa and let my SA work by itself until my retirement age.

Freedom and BBCW is all on focusing on cpf sa accumulation first due to the risk free 4% compound effect. My take on this is that while it does make sense given that my SA is already at a substantial amount (Amt is now at around BRS actually) and 4% returns with compounding effect is going to be more attractive than a 5 to 8% gain in a just started 10k overseas equity portfolio. Have not done my maths on this. Happy to be corrected.

In summary, between Tax Relief, Max SA, and Overseas/Local equity exposure. 3 categories choose 2 out of 3. Is that what u all are trying to say?

Sent from Xiaomi REDMI NOTE 8 PRO using GAGT
 
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BBCWatcher

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Freedom and BBCW is all on focusing on cpf sa accumulation first due to the risk free 4% compound effect.
No, not "all," and not solely SA. As it happens, I think CPF MA is the slightly better deal initially, for early career individuals, because it's decently liquid for the sort of emergencies people imagine (medical ones), because it fully qualifies for bonus interest, because it has additional tax relief opportunities with each withdrawal, because it's harder to top up as you progress in your career and (typically, hopefully) get higher earnings, because of "spillover" effects, and because OA dollars are transferable to one's own SA but not to MA.
 

fr33d0m

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Valid points made by everyone here. But ultimately we all agree that there is no one strategy fits all.

Based on my current situation, the way i see it, i can do it 2 ways. Max SA first before doing my 3 fund portfolio... Or vice versa and let my SA work by itself until my retirement age.

Freedom and BBCW is all on focusing on cpf sa accumulation first due to the risk free 4% compound effect. My take on this is that while it does make sense given that my SA is already at a substantial amount (Amt is now at around BRS actually) and 4% returns with compounding effect is going to be more attractive than a 5 to 8% gain in a just started 10k overseas equity portfolio. Have not done my maths on this. Happy to be corrected.

In summary, between Tax Relief, Max SA, and Overseas/Local equity exposure. 3 categories choose 2 out of 3. Is that what u all are trying to say?

Sent from Xiaomi REDMI NOTE 8 PRO using GAGT

Before doing SRS, you should consider CPF. Not always CPF 1st.
 

Potent

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I always have this questions... I dont know if it has been mentioned before... Let's say.. I am 65 now and fulfill the full retirement sum of 183000. I chose to take the 1000+ a month.. If I happened to kicked the bucket at 67... I only taken out like 20-30k worth of money. The remaining 150000 will be eaten up?
 

tangent314

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I always have this questions... I dont know if it has been mentioned before... Let's say.. I am 65 now and fulfill the full retirement sum of 183000. I chose to take the 1000+ a month.. If I happened to kicked the bucket at 67... I only taken out like 20-30k worth of money. The remaining 150000 will be eaten up?

Assuming Standard or Escalating plan, the remaining "residual" $150k becomes your bequest and goes to your nominees. If on Basic Plan the calculated amount will be different, usually higher.
 

Potent

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Thank you Tangent. Means the leftover will pass to the further generation. But if no generation then the money will be donation to society right?
 

BBCWatcher

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But if no generation then the money will be donation to society right?
If you make a CPF nomination, which you can now do online, that's entirely up to you. You could even nominate me to receive your remaining CPF assets after you die. :D
 

sg_lancelot

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Sorry for hijacking thread. I intend to transfer majority of my OA to SA this month and would like to check with the gurus here if I'm missing out on any considerations before doing so.

Current situation:
OA ~120k, SA ~50k, MA ~60k
Housing loan(starting on 2022) ~1.8k/mth repayment
Age: 29

If I have plans to sell my house after MOP, should I consider keeping funds in my OA for loan repayment?
Is keeping ~20k in OA sufficient if I want to have enough to tide over 12 months of loan repayment in case of income loss?
What other considerations should I have to keep my OA balance up?

Appreciate the help. Thanks in advance!
 

SKenny

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Sorry for hijacking thread. I intend to transfer majority of my OA to SA this month and would like to check with the gurus here if I'm missing out on any considerations before doing so.

Current situation:
OA ~120k, SA ~50k, MA ~60k
Housing loan(starting on 2022) ~1.8k/mth repayment
Age: 29

If I have plans to sell my house after MOP, should I consider keeping funds in my OA for loan repayment?
Is keeping ~20k in OA sufficient if I want to have enough to tide over 12 months of loan repayment in case of income loss?
What other considerations should I have to keep my OA balance up?

Appreciate the help. Thanks in advance!

You look good to go. The only point I would like to raise is the job security for you and your partner. If you are unsure, you can always transfer a lower amount and do regular transfers as and when your OA balance increases.

If I am in your position, I would leave a slightly higher balance in my OA, say $30-40k.
 

cscs3

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Sorry for hijacking thread. I intend to transfer majority of my OA to SA this month and would like to check with the gurus here if I'm missing out on any considerations before doing so.

Current situation:
OA ~120k, SA ~50k, MA ~60k
Housing loan(starting on 2022) ~1.8k/mth repayment
Age: 29

If I have plans to sell my house after MOP, should I consider keeping funds in my OA for loan repayment?
Is keeping ~20k in OA sufficient if I want to have enough to tide over 12 months of loan repayment in case of income loss?
What other considerations should I have to keep my OA balance up?

Appreciate the help. Thanks in advance!

You did not mention if the housing loan is from CPF account. If yes, after selling your house, you have to return the load amount (from CPF), plus potential interest earned back to CPF account. This should be OA account. as you can take the money out from SA/MA account.

I am not sure if you can transfer OA $ to SA. May be someone will answer here. But take note SA account will be converted to RA when you reach age 55.

Update: Yes, you can transfer OA$ to SA. But is irreversible. If you do not need the cash, then is a very good ideal as SA pay much higher interest rate.
 
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BBCWatcher

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Sorry for hijacking thread. I intend to transfer majority of my OA to SA this month and would like to check with the gurus here if I'm missing out on any considerations before doing so.

Current situation:
OA ~120k, SA ~50k, MA ~60k
Housing loan(starting on 2022) ~1.8k/mth repayment
Age: 29

If I have plans to sell my house after MOP, should I consider keeping funds in my OA for loan repayment?
That'll be in 2027 or later, presumably. It depends on what you expect to be doing after you sell your BTO in terms of replacement housing (which could be housing with about the same capex, higher capex, lower capex, or no capex), how much other wealth your household (and perhaps wider family including inlaws) have, and the contribution flows into CPF over the next 7+ years.

Is keeping ~20k in OA sufficient if I want to have enough to tide over 12 months of loan repayment in case of income loss?
Yes, that math is quite straightforward. Take your combined household OA balances (your spouse counts too!), divide by your monthly mortgage payment, and you have the minimum number of months that your OA balances can service your mortgage at current interest rates.

What other considerations should I have to keep my OA balance up?
It seems like you've got the basics down. I would also point out that if your Special Account is bigger sooner, more of your future money is working harder, longer. That means you can slightly reduce your current non-CPF retirement savings flow and still arrive at the same desired retirement outcome....

....What, you're not saving and prudently investing for retirement beyond CPF (you might say)? OK, it'd probably be a good idea to fix that, but more dollars working harder, longer in SA means it's a little easier to fix.

The only point I would like to raise is the job security for you and your partner. If you are unsure, you can always transfer a lower amount and do regular transfers as and when your OA balance increases.
Yes, but factor into the equation the expected CPF inflows over the next couple years. The OA balance keeps increasing with every paycheck, and there's 2.5% interest credited every December 31st.

But take note SA account will be converted to RA when you reach age 55.
The 55th birthday creation and funding of the Retirement Account is:

1. A good thing, because that's what funds your future foundational lifetime retirement income (CPF LIFE). The better funded your RA, the higher your monthly retirement income will be.

2. Not peculiar to the Special Account. Dollars are drawn first from the Special Account but, if the Special Account is not sufficient to fund the RA to the then current Full Retirement Sum, dollars will be drawn from the Ordinary Account. (Special Account "shielding" is at least currently possible.)

3. Easier to fund if you have more dollars in your Special and Ordinary Accounts, and you will definitely have more dollars if your Special Account is bigger sooner, earning the higher annually compounded interest that the Special Account enjoys.
 

polyglob

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My turn to borrow the thread.

I just turned 53. In round numbers I have 250k OA, 250k SA and 60k MA. I have no mortgage. All CPF money is just sitting there passively, no active CPF-IS investment.

Can I just transfer all my OA to my SA? Any rules against that? Any gotchas to watch out for?
 

Thoreldan

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My turn to borrow the thread.

I just turned 53. In round numbers I have 250k OA, 250k SA and 60k MA. I have no mortgage. All CPF money is just sitting there passively, no active CPF-IS investment.

Can I just transfer all my OA to my SA? Any rules against that? Any gotchas to watch out for?

U can only transfer up to the prevailing frs amount, which is 181k this yr. So this option out for u
 

polyglob

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You probably can look into SA shielding now so that oa get drawn into ra instead of sa when u hit 55

Indeed. Some quick arithmetic shows that the OA-SA balances with and without shielding differ quite substantially. Will definitely do it as long as it is still doable by then.
 

BBCWatcher

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I just turned 53. In round numbers I have 250k OA, 250k SA and 60k MA. I have no mortgage. All CPF money is just sitting there passively, no active CPF-IS investment.

Can I just transfer all my OA to my SA? Any rules against that? Any gotchas to watch out for?
You could take a look at the following family members' Special and Retirement Account balances:

spouse
parents
parents-in-law
grandparents
grandparents-in-law
siblings

to see if there are any good transfer opportunities. The CPF Board provides some more information on those transfer options here.

You have less than two years to go before your Retirement Account is formed. I assume you're turning 55 sometime in 2021, and we now know the 2021 Full Retirement Sum: $186,000. That'll mean you'll need at least $146,000 in your Ordinary Account when the time comes (plus the $40,000 in your Special Account that you cannot shield, and assuming you can shield next year). Plus another $93,000 of Ordinary Account funds if you decide to use OA dollars to top up your new Retirement Account to the Enhanced Retirement Sum.

Anyway, with those figures, and with your expected compulsory contributions (conservatively estimated), you can work the math. Be sure to include the interest that'll be credited on December 31, 2020, to figure out how much of your Ordinary Account balance you might transfer now to a loved one (or loved ones) or invest now via the CPF Investment Scheme (OA). Although I think the CPFIS (OA) is kind of dubious this close to age 55 since you're probably better off just withdrawing OA dollars while SA is shielded and then reinvesting those OA dollars outside of the high cost/limited choice CPFIS.

I don't think you're allowed to use OA dollars to pay some random person's (a loved one's) mortgage unless you have some title to the property. (Wouldn't that be nice? ;))
 
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