Desktop 2.0 & 2.1 speaker discussion thread VI [consolidated]

[LiLAsN]

When it come music listening, the integration of sub with your speakers is far more important than how low it can go or reaching 20hz.

I had tried Dirac. Quite useful and it does bring improvement. But if the sound characteristic of the sub don’t go well with your soeaker, room correction also can’t help to solve the problem. For eg my SVS SB3000 simply not good enough to partner my speakers. End up I give it to my friend for HT.

Cool! What kind of monstrous speakers do you have that the SVS SB3000 simply ain't loud enough to level match with your speakers?

Nice to see that you enjoy Dirac too! Some tips and tricks is, if the 1st time you did your calibration, and the volume is off to one side, I recommend not having to do the entire calibration again. Load the saved Calibration File and just to the 1st middle point. The other microphone positions other than the centre doesn't carry much weight than that 1st position point that you calibrated it for. So it will save you a lot of time if you find that the audio sounds imbalanced. Saves a LOT of time as compared to Audyssey where you'll have to redo all the microphone positions every time if the end result doesn't sound right.

Another tip I learnt online from experienced people with Dirac Live is that they recommend to use the 'Tightly Focused Imaging'. Basically, you want that centre seat where you will be at to have the best audio experience. And then, when positioning the microphones for the other sides to be about 30-80cm at most from the main position spot iirc.
It has been the one that produces very consistent end results with at most, me having to readjust the main centre position due to the volume being louder on one side. And the soundstage remains consistent throughout and doesn't create a mess of audio like it does with the 'Wide Imaging' calibration option.

The most useful tip of all which could be the reason why you felt that the SVS SB3000 didn't level match with your speakers (I'm just guessing since I do not know what speakers you have yet) well is that a research done by Harman resulted in a target curve that you'll see a lot of Dirac users will end up using. The Default Dirac Curve is bass-shy. Though the recent iteration with the Auto Curve for each individual speakers sounds good.
But Harman Kardon's scientific research will really elevate your audio system.
Here's the link. The research paper by Harman that resulted in the Target Curve is also linked in this site below.
https://mehlau.net/audio/dirac-live...g63HyrWD_HVUgeqPQhZ06_dxribZ1Fjb_NYLkYg6y-yAo

Scroll down to 'Target Curves for Dirac Live v2 & v3'. And download all the target curves. This is highly dependant on how far the speakers and how big the room is. To me, +6dB gave an amazing experience but I lost a bit of details in the lows and the +4dB target curve still retained all the detail but lacks a bit of punch. I ended up averaging both to create my own +5dB target curve file that I loaded up in 'Filter Design's section of Dirac. You can load up the Target Curve by clicking on the 3 lines on the top left and selecting 'Load Target Curve' and then selecting 'All Groups'. Then you can adjust the curtain to either cover a certain frequency range of a particular speaker but I find it doing the entire frequency range made my multiple mismatched speakers and subwoofer to blend very well together and sounded cohesive.

Give it a try. Can't wait to hear what you think!

PS. As for my background, I've personally bought and used a few of these expensive speaker cables and even power cables along with my other speaker upgrades and Room Correction tests over the years.
Thus, my final recommendation for those on a budget and wants the best performance for the price was based on what made a difference in improving your audio experience. And my final outcome just coincidentally fell in line with what the proper audio experts with the proper audio engineering background has to say. Because I think some of you will agree; Some of us might want to do our own A/B testing for ourselves and see if our own experience replicates the findings of an Expert's advice. Basically, I had money to burn and I wanted to see if I can improve my audio experience with said speaker cables and power cables.
Then, depending on your room size and how loud you are allowed to play your music, videos or games on your said HTS, then the next upgrade will be a dedicated amplifier that is capable of giving the power that your speaker needs at louder volumes. Usually for small to medium room sizes like a typical HDB size, you won't usually be able to play your movies at reference volume and therefore, not much power is needed to drive your speakers. Thus, the irrelevance of an external amplifier.
I use a smart plug that I can use to check the power draw of my Home Theatre System. And it is mostly way under my own AV receiver's power supply. Thus, an amplifier upgrade wasn't necessary.
But, if you have a big room size and the distance of the speakers are farther from you, chances are, you'll need to crank up the volume to have the same volume level as those with a smaller room size with speakers that are closer to you. Thus, adding an external amplifier will be ideal to let the speaker drivers drive to the fullest of their capability at louder volumes.


Word of advice for the rest of us. The best way to navigate the consumer audio world is to use the commercial audio industry as a guide. Commercial companies do not tolerate BS. All the electronics and audio cables are usually ones with no snake oil and are backed up by repeatable claims and results. The consumer industry on the other hand is plagued with crooks who want to take advantage of the unsuspecting random person with no knowledge on audio science (the same science used to create the very speakers, receivers, soundbars and so on which they very much try to disprove the same science of).
Similarly when someone is unwell with an unknown sickness, you do not try to self diagnose that person's sickness and instead advice them to seek professional healthcare doctors' help who studied the science on learning about your health.

So why is it that in this audio industry, all of a sudden, audio experts and engineers with a Masters degree shouldn't matter and you are instead advised to rely on blind A/B testing without knowing if both the A/B products are even what they claimed to be to begin with and you are discouraged to check reviews and specifications of the said product that you are spending hundreds to thousands of dollars on?
Very suspicious don't you think? If not because they want you to be clueless so they can gaslight and manipulate you into buying what they want you to buy. Thus, caveat emptor or buyer beware.
This forum also has users who are investors and have a stake in certain businesses. Thus, they have the incentive to disprove others and try to flood the forum with positive posts of certain businesses. Ala, Creative being one of the said examples that some users have a stake in and thus try to flood the forum with positive things to say about their newly launched products. So do be careful.

 

[Wusplay]

When SB3000 arrived, i was using Magico A1 bookshelf. The natural choice of sub to partner A1 is Magico own ASub. Anyway i tried SVS. Of course it was not fair to expect SVS to be anywhere close to ASub at 1/3 the cost. Basically SVS was so slow and also no amount of room correction can match SVS tonal, textures and bass characteristic to Magico.

I felt a little bit paiseh to use SVS vs Magico as an example to prove the point that not all 20hz sub are made the same. It is totally unfair to SVS consider the price point.

For cables , just compare copper vs pure silver. You will hear the differences immediately. This will refute what ASR trying to tell us that all cables sound the same. The simple fact is that cables make a difference.

 

[Wusplay]

I think we have two separate issues

Well engineered product come with good measurement. Nobody dispute this.

The problem is overly obsessed with exposing snake oil. If someone is so influenced by this type of mind set it will only limit their ability to explore further.

 

[LiLAsN]

When SB3000 arrived, i was using Magico A1 bookshelf. The natural choice of sub to partner A1 is Magico own ASub. Anyway i tried SVS. Of course it was not fair to expect SVS to be anywhere close to ASub at 1/3 the cost. Basically SVS was so slow and also no amount of room correction can match SVS tonal, textures and bass characteristic to Magico.

I felt a little bit paiseh to use SVS vs Magico as an example to prove the point that not all 20hz sub are made the same. It is totally unfair to SVS consider the price point.

For cables , just compare copper vs pure silver. You will hear the differences immediately. This will refute what ASR trying to tell us that all cables sound the same. The simple fact is that cables make a difference.

Agree with you. As mentioned, I use ASR to get their measurement graphs only and draw my own conclusions. It is extremely useful to know what kind of sound curve a speaker, or headphone has. And especially to know the weak points of a speaker if it has wild deviations at certain frequencies. Don't just blindly listen to advice like how awesome a headphone or speaker is by a reviewer or a user in the forum or any other forum for that matter. The graph provided is useful especially for determining it's ±3 dB and to know if room correction can fix an issue with the speaker's faults (dips). It is easier to fix peaks (curve going upwards in a graph) but nulls (curve going downwards) are literally flaws in a speaker as it is incapable to reproducing that frequency range at a certain volume and is therefore terribly hard to fix even with Parametric EQ.

As for Copper vs real Silver, you are not wrong. Audioholics explains the conductivity of Copper and Silver well. But you can literally find this on any Engineering textbooks as well.
Copper has a conductivity of 100%.
Silver has a conductivity of 105%.
So vs copper, Silver will definitely have less resistance when both have the same Gauge.

But then, we will need to look at the Gauge of the cables. The lower the Gauge, the less resistance it has vs the other one.
So, to get less resistance than the more expensive Silver cable, all you have to do is buy a Copper cable that is 5-7% more thicker ala more Copper strands.
So the example given is that a 12AWG Copper cable will end up having lower resistance than a 14AWG Silver Cable.
However, the lie is the one where you have Silver Plated Copper wires. The Core of the wires is still Copper. It just has a coat of silver on the outer layer. You are now dealing with an Alloy instead of Pure Metal Copper or Silver. So electricity is still passing through the Copper core at the end of the day. But it being an alloy risks it having negative side effects like it having even more resistance.


Wow! Those speakers you have there. The measurement graph looks quite flat with little to no deviations even till 20kHz. You are definitely able to hear the full 20Hz to 20kHz range (with a sub of course) of audio all playing at around the same volume. Amazing speakers that is capable of reproducing the entire frequency range. Being able hear all the details without any of them or as little of them being lost from too low of a volume than the rest...
Mad respect. You know your stuff. The amount of research that Magico put into getting the tweeters and woofers to produce all the sounds at the different frequencies is exquisite. Right up there with more expensive Revel series. Wow.

Even SVS's Subwoofer Matching Tool (Merlin) recommends a minimum of the SB-4000 but preferably their SB16-Ultra subwoofers (though they only show the Q1 as the only available Bookshelf speaker in the Magico speaker list). Your speakers can get loud and yet produce excellent clarity and details as seen by the frequency response graph that it requires a subwoofer that can get just as loud in order to match it. What a keeper. Salute.

 

[Wusplay]

I think you have done quite a bit of research on hifi components. Thumbs up!

 

[dreamaurora]

I think we have two separate issues

Well engineered product come with good measurement. Nobody dispute this.

The problem is overly obsessed with exposing snake oil. If someone is so influenced by this type of mind set it will only limit their ability to explore further.

I do think past a certain price point this pursuit becomes similar to say collecting fancy sports cars or eating at fancy Michelin star restaurants.

I enjoy eating Tony's Cafe at Adelphi, really one of the best and bang for the buck cai png in Singapore. I sometimes eat there a few times a week. But if someone wants to eat at Odette for lunch just across the road, I won't go around saying to them why waste money go Odette when a nice cai png meal is equally as satisfying.

Anyway, audiophiles who buy more premium products won't be swayed by those ASR fanatics. It's those people who are starting out or into mid-fis that are more susceptible for these kind of data-based purchasing process.

 

[petetherock]

I take feedback from all sources, assess for myself and I also arrange a demo where-ever possible.
Let's get back to 2.1 speakers.
Thanks

 

[boxerfan]

Yeah... back to 2.X speakers.

Which is better? 2.1 or 2.2? And why?

(The itch has started for the KH750... Mopiko applied.... but still can feel some itch...ha ha ha.)

 

[Wusplay]

You confirm go for 2.2 lar

two sub to counteract standing waves, 3dB loudness gain on bass so that dsp also don’t have to push the main speaker so hard lead to lower distortion, and it look so much better with kh310 sitting on top with a proper stand.

 

[boxerfan]

Ha na. Ha na.

 

[dreamaurora]

Which is better? 2.1 or 2.2? And why?

(The itch has started for the KH750... Mopiko applied.... but still can feel some itch...ha ha ha.)

Go 2.6

 

[BanEle]

I have audition klipsch the fives. They are decent but something seems missing. Is like the clarity and sound stage wasn't very clear.

My intention is to put the speakers at my living room. The size is about 20m2, inclusive of dining area.

I'm thinking of getting Ls50 W1, as it is cheaper than Ls50 W2, and pair it with a sb1000 pro.

Any comment or suggestion? Or any alternative setup?

 

[Wusplay]

Cabasse The Pearl Akoya...just kidding. Leave it to dreamaurora to make the suggestions.

I’m never good at guessing the preferences of others. All i can say is to pick the most satisfying speakers involve actual audition and also depends on how the spk performs in your listening room. Good luck.

 

[Psycovirus]

Dove in already.

My full set SVS

Bought SVS Ultra Bookshelfs.
SVS 1000s
Svs sounfbase Pro.

Nice, I have been using SVS Wireless Soundbase Pro with ELAC Uni-Fi 2.0s and it has been a wonderful experience. Did a short review in this thread, few pages before.

How are you finding the unit? I used to be troubled because I couldn't Power off the unit, no power off button but got used to it now. Just leave it be and it switches off after 20 mins of switch it off through eARC.

 

[dreamaurora]

I have audition klipsch the fives. They are decent but something seems missing. Is like the clarity and sound stage wasn't very clear.

My intention is to put the speakers at my living room. The size is about 20m2, inclusive of dining area.

I'm thinking of getting Ls50 W1, as it is cheaper than Ls50 W2, and pair it with a sb1000 pro.

Any comment or suggestion? Or any alternative setup?

Cabasse The Pearl Akoya...just kidding. Leave it to dreamaurora to make the suggestions.

I’m never good at guessing the preferences of others. All i can say is to pick the most satisfying speakers involve actual audition and also depends on how the spk performs in your listening room. Good luck.

Haha, I love Cabasse speakers, but their pricing definitely in the premium category.

The Fives do benefit from slight toe in. When I auditioned it in the TC Acoustics they sounded much better with toe in. The Fives has a bass hump, so it sounds warmer and less clear than more neutral speakers. More versatile for movies and gaming but a pair of Fives is definitely not my first choice for music listening.

Since you are considering a pair of LS50 Wireless 2 that means you prioritize music listening. IMO, it would integrate better with something like Rel T7X or Elac Sub3030 rather than SVS, but you should go and listen if you like the Rel sound.

Anyway, if you have the budget for LS50 Wireless 2 you can also seriously consider a pair of passives plus a nice integrated amp. Separates will allow you more flexibility to tweak and upgrade the sound further.

 

[boxerfan]

A pair of KH150 mated to a nice streamer... no need to upgrade for a long time...

[no need for sub unless you want to hear the lowest 2 octaves at high SPL]

 

[dreamaurora]

A pair of KH150 mated to a nice streamer... no need to upgrade for a long time...

[no need for sub unless you want to hear the lowest 2 octaves at high SPL]

WAF factor very low leh. I wonder if any guys could successfully convince their women to put ATC, Genelec, or Neumann in living room.

 

[boxerfan]

Definitely have. When a woman loves a man… … the aforementioned speakers shall be allowed with love.

 

[GotBetrayed]

Just whacked Klipsch the fives just now. Hope Zai for desktop use. Mainly for gaming

 

[Charles_Chi4]

Anyone using schiit loki mini+? Any good? Want to use it with klipsch the fives.