EndowUs Roboadvisor: investing using CPF

[s0crates]

Short term returns means nothing.

How's the returns compared to stashaway???

 

[style_x7]

Hi fellow members,

A few questions after reading a few pages of this thread:

1. to get cpf oa out to invest in s&p index funds etc, is endowus the only way out? any other upcoming? I rather do pure index funds and cut away the middle useless man.

2. how's the time lag to sell and withdraw money from endowus back to cpf oa?

3. anyone can share on the fees and charges like, especially any hidden one? the site is very bare, other than the advertising ... and any comment how safe is this platform?

4. i'm quite new to this robo thing, when I buy, is there any unit price so that i can monitor or it's a black box where I just state how much money I want to put in?

5. I guess many of u are using uob as the cpf ia account, if I have existing account with other bank, can still link up? and do they open a uob kay hian account also for u?

Thanks in advance.

 

[zoneguard]

1. to get cpf oa out to invest in s&p index funds etc, is endowus the only way out? any other upcoming? I rather do pure index funds and cut away the middle useless man.

No. Lion Global Infinity Global Stock Index Fund (SGD Class) and Infinity U.S. 500 Stock Index Fund (SGD Class) are both CPFIS-OA unit trusts and feed into Vanguard funds: Vanguard Global Stock Index Fund and Vanguard U.S. 500 Stock Index Fund.

Somebody just asked BBCW a related question: https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/127667613-post2372.html

 

[Mr. Wood]

No. Lion Global Infinity Global Stock Index Fund (SGD Class) and Infinity U.S. 500 Stock Index Fund (SGD Class) are both CPFIS-OA unit trusts and feed into Vanguard funds: Vanguard Global Stock Index Fund and Vanguard U.S. 500 Stock Index Fund.

Somebody just asked BBCW a related question: https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/127667613-post2372.html

but still need to buy thru a distributor, rite? I think @style_x7 wants to buy directly with lion global and cutting away the sales channels?

 

[s0crates]

1. Endowus is the only useless middle man around since October last year, that's the intriguing thing. Somehow they manage to bring in 2 passive funds that is exclusive to them, which is quite a feat or existing players and brokers are that useless or incompetent. Heard autowealth might be coming up with something but still nothing real.

2. 3-4 days I think, but pricing is based on fund NAV one day later.

3. Their fees are traneparent. 0.4% on top of any fund fees. Fund fees based on your portfolio. Go try their platform la or read from bloggers

4. You are buying at fund value per unit. Unit trusts are executed based on fund value per unit. The executed price is known to us once it's processed.

5. Can. All three banks can. They create a new special kayhian endowus for us.

Hi fellow members,

A few questions after reading a few pages of this thread:

1. to get cpf oa out to invest in s&p index funds etc, is endowus the only way out? any other upcoming? I rather do pure index funds and cut away the middle useless man.

2. how's the time lag to sell and withdraw money from endowus back to cpf oa?

3. anyone can share on the fees and charges like, especially any hidden one? the site is very bare, other than the advertising ... and any comment how safe is this platform?

4. i'm quite new to this robo thing, when I buy, is there any unit price so that i can monitor or it's a black box where I just state how much money I want to put in?

5. I guess many of u are using uob as the cpf ia account, if I have existing account with other bank, can still link up? and do they open a uob kay hian account also for u?

Thanks in advance.

 

[style_x7]

No. Lion Global Infinity Global Stock Index Fund (SGD Class) and Infinity U.S. 500 Stock Index Fund (SGD Class) are both CPFIS-OA unit trusts and feed into Vanguard funds: Vanguard Global Stock Index Fund and Vanguard U.S. 500 Stock Index Fund.

Somebody just asked BBCW a related question: https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/127667613-post2372.html

thanks zoneguard, how do I buy these? I have a brokerage account linked with my cpf investment account (ia), can just buy these like stocks and they will come under my sgx cpd account?

 

[style_x7]

but still need to buy thru a distributor, rite? I think @style_x7 wants to buy directly with lion global and cutting away the sales channels?

yeah and to be more exact, I just want to buy overseas index funds with cpf oa, not even want to unit trusts.

 

[zoneguard]

thanks zoneguard, how do I buy these? I have a brokerage account linked with my cpf investment account (ia), can just buy these like stocks and they will come under my sgx cpd account?

s0crates said you can't buy from other distributors as Endowus apparently has an exclusive deal for these 2 funds. Endowus don't sell them separately as well and you are forced to take the other allocated funds within the risk level.

I have Infinity Global Stock Index fund in my CPF-IS account with POEMS from long time ago (more than 10 years) but it seems that the 3 other distributors (Dollardex/Aviva, POEMS and FSM have stopped offering these 2 funds with CPF and you can confirm this at the Lion Global site as only cash/SRS is available.

So for now, Endowus is the only choice for CPF-IS for these 2 funds.

 

[style_x7]

1. Endowus is the only useless middle man around since October last year, that's the intriguing thing. Somehow they manage to bring in 2 passive funds that is exclusive to them, which is quite a feat or existing players and brokers are that useless or incompetent. Heard autowealth might be coming up with something but still nothing real.

2. 3-4 days I think, but pricing is based on fund NAV one day later.

3. Their fees are traneparent. 0.4% on top of any fund fees. Fund fees based on your portfolio. Go try their platform la or read from bloggers

4. You are buying at fund value per unit. Unit trusts are executed based on fund value per unit. The executed price is known to us once it's processed.

5. Can. All three banks can. They create a new special kayhian endowus for us.

Appreciate your feedback / input Yeah it's intriguing weird to let them access cpf oa when they are a startup. Hard to beat cpf returns when the locals are not having access to many high quality safe investment out there, sigh.

From endowus faq, "The fund-level fees of our CPF portfolios range from 0.47% to 0.64% per annum, versus the CPF-IS average of 1.60%.", I suppose this can be trusted.. I want to try them out but the minimum sum is $10k for cpf, quite hefty to try try (at least for me).

The special kayhian endowusa ccount, no need us (customers) to manage and cost free ya? I'm trying to minimise accounts.

 

[style_x7]

s0crates said you can't buy from other distributors as Endowus apparently has an exclusive deal for these 2 funds. Endowus don't sell them separately as well and you are forced to take the other allocated funds within the risk level.

I have Infinity Global Stock Index fund in my CPF-IS account with POEMS from long time ago (more than 10 years) but it seems that the 3 other distributors (Dollardex/Aviva, POEMS and FSM have stopped offering these 2 funds with CPF and you can confirm this at the Lion Global site as only cash/SRS is available.

So for now, Endowus is the only choice for CPF-IS for these 2 funds.

Damn.. this is depressing :/ And Endowus max is 60% into these funds I think while 40% at least in bonds (terrible right now). Why is endowus given such power? -.-

 

[zoneguard]

Damn.. this is depressing :/ And Endowus max is 60% into these funds I think while 40% at least in bonds (terrible right now). Why is endowus given such power? -.-

Technically the funds are with UOB Kay Hian, who is a CPF IA:
https://www.cpf.gov.sg/Assets/members/Documents/INV_AnnexC.pdf

https://unittrust.uobkayhian.com:444/FundSelectorInfo.aspx?secId=F0HKG062P0
(From Oct 2020, 0% sales charge for CPF based on the product highlight sheet)

So you can (in theory) buy them directly from UOBKH's UTrade platform instead of going through Endowus. (Sidenote: I received paper statements from UOBKH for my Endowus holdings.)

I don't have a UTrade account so if anybody has an account there can verify if https://sg.uobkayhian.com/login/index_s.jsp?exchange=UT allows purchases of the 2 Lion Global Infinity funds.

 

[Mr. Wood]

yeah and to be more exact, I just want to buy overseas index funds with cpf oa, not even want to unit trusts.

i know. I dun like the middleman oso. but not possible now. and I dun see it will change anytime soon. there are many reasons, on gamen sside, on fund managers side.
some time back, lion global do accept money frm retail investors directly, but dey stopped doing dat. dunno why. mayb if a lot of pple lobby for change, dey may open up again. who knows.

 

[s0crates]

I have a 100% equities portfolio, just up your risk level. Haha. There is no need for bonds in CPF imo, but I think it's really to help people who are more risk adverse.

I lost more than 20% of my CPF portfolio in march so yes having a bond allocation as an option is important.

Damn.. this is depressing :/ And Endowus max is 60% into these funds I think while 40% at least in bonds (terrible right now). Why is endowus given such power? -.-

 

[Speedhawk]

Infinity US 500 Stock Index Fund
Listen to 1:31 - 1:43
https://wealthenjoy.com/webinar/samuel-rhee-2020-06-18/

 

[FinalDestiny...]

I find the following images shared in a recent webinar painting an easy to understand picture of the costs involved for investing:

CPF investing

Do take note sales charges will be eliminated and wrap fees capped at 0.4% from Oct 2020, so the playing field will equalise further then.

Unit Trust investing in general

Cost comparison with other robo-advisors which uses US ETFs

 

[Mr. Wood]

I find the following images shared in a recent webinar painting an easy to understand picture of the costs involved for investing:

CPF investing
https://i.imgur.com/9ZEYZoU.jpg[img]

Do take note sales charges will be eliminated and wrap fees capped at 0.4% from Oct 2020, so the playing field will equalise further then.

[U][SIZE="3"]Unit Trust investing in general[/SIZE][/U]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/UExOpJB.jpg[img]

[U][SIZE="3"]Cost comparison with other robo-advisors which uses US ETFs[/SIZE][/U]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/vP0YBnL.jpg

why uobkh willing to partner endowus and take in lower fee, whereas their own utrade take higher fee

 

[F1ngolf2012]

why uobkh willing to partner endowus and take in lower fee, whereas their own utrade take higher fee

While looking at endowus, I have the same question aside some others. Have not pulled the trigger yet. OA 2.5% has its attractiveness.
Below blog could be of interest to you.
https://kpo-and-czm.blogspot.com/2019/12/endowus-cpf-srs-review.html

 

[Panerex]

I am also still considering using endowus for CPF OA.

Initially thought can buy ETF, end up only Unit Trust avail

 

[hwmook]

I am also still considering using endowus for CPF OA.

Initially thought can buy ETF, end up only Unit Trust avail

I invested in UT using my OA and make 50% returns over the years. If you cannot afford to lose money then just keep in OA. Let people earn that 1+% fees for the much higher returns is definitely worth it.

 

[s0crates]

Their equity portfolio is made up of 70% indexed unit trust that is only available to them leh. It's not as cheap as the likes of the ucits etfs but it's still very cheap at 0.4% and 0.44% p.a. TER.

I also never buy unit trusts before using Endowus lol. But I guess it doesnt matter if you buy unit trusts or ETFs as long as it's low cost, very diversified.

I am also still considering using endowus for CPF OA.

Initially thought can buy ETF, end up only Unit Trust avail