EndowUs Roboadvisor: investing using CPF

[s0crates]

Oh the cpf trailer fees are finally in!!!!

 

[Mr. Wood]

I dun quite understand the rationale for Pac Basin Small Company fund.

The investment policy of this fund is to purchase securities of certain Pacific Basin traded companies which the Investment Manager deems eligible value stocks

https://www.morningstarfunds.ie/ie/funds/snapshot/snapshot.aspx?id=F0000110IK&tab=3
look at the top holdings it has CDG and SPH. althou it is a v small %, but, seriously?

any thots u guys?

 

[RedsYWNA]

I dun quite understand the rationale for Pac Basin Small Company fund.

https://www.morningstarfunds.ie/ie/funds/snapshot/snapshot.aspx?id=F0000110IK&tab=3
look at the top holdings it has CDG and SPH. althou it is a v small %, but, seriously?

any thots u guys?

I am only interested in Endowus, because I can gain access to S&P 500 and Global fund via ord CPF. Which is better than investing my Ord CPF in ES3.

For SRS, I think its better to buy Lionglobal S&P or Global Fund instead. For cash, obviously there are loads of other better & cheaper choices.

 

[hwmook]

I am only interested in Endowus, because I can gain access to S&P 500 and Global fund via ord CPF. Which is better than investing my Ord CPF in ES3.

For SRS, I think its better to buy Lionglobal S&P or Global Fund instead. For cash, obviously there are loads of other better & cheaper choices.

Exactly, there are better things to buy except for CPF funds. I am only using endowus for CPF funds.

 

[s0crates]

Dude it's just less than 0.5% of the fund - they didn't even pick it. Weightage is probably based on their dimensions weighing methodology.

I dun quite understand the rationale for Pac Basin Small Company fund.

https://www.morningstarfunds.ie/ie/funds/snapshot/snapshot.aspx?id=F0000110IK&tab=3
look at the top holdings it has CDG and SPH. althou it is a v small %, but, seriously?

any thots u guys?

 

[assiak71]

I am only interested in Endowus, because I can gain access to S&P 500 and Global fund via ord CPF. Which is better than investing my Ord CPF in ES3.

For SRS, I think its better to buy Lionglobal S&P or Global Fund instead. For cash, obviously there are loads of other better & cheaper choices.

I on the other hand think that it is acceptable for srs

How much more % is endowus srs? What do you gain for that? To me it is acceptable. But up to individual

 

[Mr. Wood]

I am only interested in Endowus, because I can gain access to S&P 500 and Global fund via ord CPF. Which is better than investing my Ord CPF in ES3.

For SRS, I think its better to buy Lionglobal S&P or Global Fund instead. For cash, obviously there are loads of other better & cheaper choices.

which other platform u use for global fund? I alrdy have S&P by itself, so looking at other funds.

 

[RedsYWNA]

which other platform u use for global fund? I alrdy have S&P by itself, so looking at other funds.

You can consider using Poems for the Lionglobal Infinity Global Stock index. Its SGD, Irish domiciled, and expense ratio is around 0.75%. I feel it's less complicated than all the weightings by Endowus.

But personally, I would only advise this for SRS and CPF, where there are limited choices for us.

For CPF OA, its either ES3 or Endowus, and history suggests investing my CPF OA into Endowus will be relatively more stable than ES3.

 

[RedsYWNA]

I on the other hand think that it is acceptable for srs

How much more % is endowus srs? What do you gain for that? To me it is acceptable. But up to individual

Depends on whether you are convinced by the factor tilting.

I thought keeping it simple with Lionglobal S& P 500 for SRS is gd enuff for me at 0.7% ratio, or their global fund at 0.75% ratio.

Apparently for cpf, these funds are good enuff for Endowus, so why not I invest in these funds directly via SRS, rather than factor tilting?

 

[assiak71]

Depends on whether you are convinced by the factor tilting.

I thought keeping it simple with Lionglobal S& P 500 for SRS is gd enuff for me at 0.7% ratio, or their global fund at 0.75% ratio.

Apparently for cpf, these funds are good enuff for Endowus, so why not I invest in these funds directly via SRS, rather than factor tilting?

You seem to be only looking at 100% equities so i can understand where you are coming from.

Im actually not referring to the factor tilt. Im referring to one can get a managed portfolio of stocks and bonds for just 0.1x-0.2% more than the 0.7% you cited. Relatively thats very decent to me and i would go for 80/20 and then move to 60/40 when nearer withdrawal.

 

[s0crates]

But there are the two active funds for apac and EM in their cpf portfolio.... I think they may kick those out.

Depends on whether you are convinced by the factor tilting.

I thought keeping it simple with Lionglobal S& P 500 for SRS is gd enuff for me at 0.7% ratio, or their global fund at 0.75% ratio.

Apparently for cpf, these funds are good enuff for Endowus, so why not I invest in these funds directly via SRS, rather than factor tilting?

 

[RedsYWNA]

You seem to be only looking at 100% equities so i can understand where you are coming from.

Im actually not referring to the factor tilt. Im referring to one can get a managed portfolio of stocks and bonds for just 0.1x-0.2% more than the 0.7% you cited. Relatively thats very decent to me and i would go for 80/20 and then move to 60/40 when nearer withdrawal.

I have 2 lines of thoughts for using CPF and SRS.

For CPF, the bond component needs to clear a hurdle rate of 3.5% (2.5% CPF + 1% Endowus). It may be possible, but challenging esp in bull markets. I would rather use the CPF as the bond component itself, while taking my risk in equities. That means for the CPF, if you go for 80%-20% portfolio, I would invest 80% into their equity fund, while retaining the 20% CPF balance as my 'bond'. The rebalancing would be simply selling my equity investment at Endowus and returning to my 2.5% CPF.

For SRS, I can invest directly into A35 or MBH as my local bond component. So if you like, you can split between LionGlobal S&P or Global fund as the equity component, while using A35/MBH as the bond component.

That's why for me, I would only use Endowus for CPF investment to gain access to S&P 500 or the Global Fund.

 

[RedsYWNA]

But there are the two active funds for apac and EM in their cpf portfolio.... I think they may kick those out.

I actually dont like those 2 funds, but I thin Endowus is trying to cover the Asian markets, esp Greater China.

But overall despite the addition of the 2 funds, its still better than investing my ord CPF in ES3.

 

[Mr. Wood]

does endowus hav comparison of their portfolio performance with a benchmark (eg S&P500)? din find on their website

 

[assiak71]

I have 2 lines of thoughts for using CPF and SRS.

For CPF, the bond component needs to clear a hurdle rate of 3.5% (2.5% CPF + 1% Endowus). It may be possible, but challenging esp in bull markets. I would rather use the CPF as the bond component itself, while taking my risk in equities. That means for the CPF, if you go for 80%-20% portfolio, I would invest 80% into their equity fund, while retaining the 20% CPF balance as my 'bond'. The rebalancing would be simply selling my equity investment at Endowus and returning to my 2.5% CPF.

For SRS, I can invest directly into A35 or MBH as my local bond component. So if you like, you can split between LionGlobal S&P or Global fund as the equity component, while using A35/MBH as the bond component.

That's why for me, I would only use Endowus for CPF investment to gain access to S&P 500 or the Global Fund.

Im only looking at SRS btw. Personally I think that ~0.2% additional cost for a managed, diversified portfolio of stocks and bonds is worth it. Can also do monthly DCA after the initial lump sum (it wont be cost effective for A35/MBH).

Again to each his/her own. It is acceptable to me but maybe not to others.

 

[RedsYWNA]

Im only looking at SRS btw. Personally I think that ~0.2% additional cost for a managed, diversified portfolio of stocks and bonds is worth it. Can also do monthly DCA after the initial lump sum (it wont be cost effective for A35/MBH).

Again to each his/her own. It is acceptable to me but maybe not to others.

Monthly DCA is a gd point, I forgot about it. Although many boglehead would advocate lump sum, instead of DCA.

 

[FinalDestiny...]

After watching the video regarding the portfolio change, it appears to me the key thing is that the new changes are slightly better in terms of volatility, returns and diversification which may not matter that much in the short term, but in the long term it would matter more. A difference of even 1% in annualised returns would compound to a significant amount over the years.

It is implied that this change has been well thought out as it is the first portfolio change since they started in March 2018 :O

The rationale for Pacific Basin fund is because it has the lowest correlation to other equity funds in the portfolio. Is this a strong enough reason, I can't say for sure. cfleee raised some good questions regarding this and the role of the Vanguard S&P500 ETF in the new portfolio.

I find their arguments against US ETFs pretty convincing, as the low fund level fees are only part of the total fees incurred. There is Withholding tax of 30%, forex cost, forex risk and brokerage costs (perhaps not as significant due to IBKR low cost) that we have to factor in as well.

 

[Mr. Wood]

After watching the video regarding the portfolio change, it appears to me the key thing is that the new changes are slightly better in terms of volatility, returns and diversification which may not matter that much in the short term, but in the long term it would matter more. A difference of even 1% in annualised returns would compound to a significant amount over the years.

It is implied that this change has been well thought out as it is the first portfolio change since they started in March 2018 :O

The rationale for Pacific Basin fund is because it has the lowest correlation to other equity funds in the portfolio. Is this a strong enough reason, I can't say for sure. cfleee raised some good questions regarding this and the role of the Vanguard S&P500 ETF in the new portfolio.

I find their arguments against US ETFs pretty convincing, as the low fund level fees are only part of the total fees incurred. There is Withholding tax of 30%, forex cost, forex risk and brokerage costs (perhaps not as significant due to IBKR low cost) that we have to factor in as well.

I understand the part abt withholding tax, but isn't it the same with funds?
At the fund level, there is oso withholding tax at each individual stock.

and den forex cost and forex risk is passed on to the fund managers, which is similar and someone got to make money out of somewhere. fund managers cannot be doing a free service. there is proly still a bid/ask spread, which other robos will say the same thing their bid/ask spread is competitive or tight, or virtually zero.

 

[foozgarden]

Im only looking at SRS btw. Personally I think that ~0.2% additional cost for a managed, diversified portfolio of stocks and bonds is worth it. Can also do monthly DCA after the initial lump sum (it wont be cost effective for A35/MBH).

Again to each his/her own. It is acceptable to me but maybe not to others.

i am also looking only at SRS deployment. but its quite limited.
and while researching, everyone seems to be touting endowus.
is there some referal going on? or just their marketing? or are they just the best for SRS in the market now?
i feel their ~0.8% is a tad too high.

is it possible to buy the LG infinity (SRS) ?how much would it cost

 

[assiak71]

i am also looking only at SRS deployment. but its quite limited.
and while researching, everyone seems to be touting endowus.
is there some referal going on? or just their marketing? or are they just the best for SRS in the market now?
i feel their ~0.8% is a tad too high.

is it possible to buy the LG infinity (SRS) ?how much would it cost

LG is about 0.7%. Now do you still think endowus' managed, diversified portfolio of stocks and bonds at 0.8x% is high?