EndowUs Roboadvisor: investing using CPF

[Okenba]

Oops, sorry for not being clear. Left side is equity, right side is bond. So 80/20 would mean 80% equity, 20% bond, for example.

Yeah no worries! I was just thinking if it would be a right move to go up at least a bit from my current 40/60 allocation, assuming I can stomach a bit more risk, and since the bond market isn't looking that good too...?

Or maybe stick through it this year first or something.

If you are currently 40/60, the question to ask is, why did you decide on 40/60? and what has changed now?
If you are moving out of bonds because you've suddenly realised that bonds aren't looking good, will you move out of stocks when you start to think stocks aren't looking good?

To change allocation or not is really a personal decision. However, if you are a passive investor, I think passive investors generally do not change their asset allocation lightly. They would not want their emotions to be the one running the show.

 

[Yukikaze_88]

Thanks for the advice, Okenba! I'm okay with taking in a bit more risk than when I started, I suppose (for higher returns hopefully). But yes, you are right about the emotion part. Let me think through it further.

Any other tips or further discussion on robos/investing with cash or CPF etc are all welcome, can PM also

 

[Okenba]

Thanks for the advice, Okenba! I'm okay with taking in a bit more risk than when I started, I suppose (for higher returns hopefully). But yes, you are right about the emotion part. Let me think through it further.

Any other tips or further discussion on robos/investing with cash or CPF etc are all welcome, can PM also

If you are interested in reading more about passive index investing, Bogleheads is a good place to start.
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Main_Page
They also have pages for non-US investors. Even for Singapore.
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Investing_from_Singapore
Your question about changing asset allocation is pobably most related to your IPS.
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Investment_policy_statement
Enjoy.

 

[revhappy]

Really, the only major point in Endowus is the access to Dimensional Funds.

Aside from CPF, if you are using Cash/SRS, the only thing that is worthwhile to invest with Endowus are the Dimensional Fund offerings. Anything else, you should be using IBKR.

From a behavioural standpoint, I prefer unit trust structure rather than IBKR. IBKR can be very enticing to leverage, do options, buy some other stocks and ETFs etc. While Endowus restricts you to only the specific fund. Sometimes such restrictions is exactly what an investors needs for their own good.

 

[sohguanh]

From a behavioural standpoint, I prefer unit trust structure rather than IBKR. IBKR can be very enticing to leverage, do options, buy some other stocks and ETFs etc. While Endowus restricts you to only the specific fund. Sometimes such restrictions is exactly what an investors needs for their own good.

If you are going for mutual fund aka unit trust just be open to more platforms besides Endowus. Trailer fee is Endowus first mover initiative but their number of funds offered really need to add much more maybe same number as what FSMOne is offering hehe

 

[wealthdone]

Yes a bit limited by choice

 

[sohguanh]

Yes a bit limited by choice

If you receive the latest email I have a strong suspicion Endowus may later (in future perhaps?) merge with UOBKH ? The email inform from UOBKH utrade we can view the statement same as what we see in Endowus from 1 Apr 2022 onwards. Our fund acct is actually under our name with UOBKH not Endowus so legally UOBKH is the company looking after our investment correct? Hmmm will see how it goes

 

[Alibeckham]

My robo invest of 20% equity and 80% fixed income has dropped from 20.5k to 18k.. should I be concern and do something about it, or just leave it and it will eventually be green with long term investment? I kind of lazy investor so thought dump 20k to try with robo investment, initially it was quite ok, but over the last few month it just start to go downhill.. any pro tip or advice here?

 

[revhappy]

My robo invest of 20% equity and 80% fixed income has dropped from 20.5k to 18k.. should I be concern and do something about it, or just leave it and it will eventually be green with long term investment? I kind of lazy investor so thought dump 20k to try with robo investment, initially it was quite ok, but over the last few month it just start to go downhill.. any pro tip or advice here?

What funds are in your portfolio? Can you list them?

 

[revhappy]

I had a look at Endowus advised portfolios and I have to say, I am not impressed with their portfolio construction. Their 100% risk portfolio, has US overweight and also has EM and Pacific basin small companies. Not even sure why you need these. Then their 80:20 portfolio, 60:40 portfolio also has EM and lot of pimco fixed income funds some of them are also EM fixed income funds. Holy crap.

Here is what I would suggest, their single fund portfolios are awesome., so make use of that.

Generally it is suggested to have a 3 fund portfolio:
60/40 allocation(+/- depending on your risk allowance)
1)The 40% fixed income component, either use your CPF or something else that is SGD denominated and SGD domicle investment grade bond fund like MB not some China Property developer high yield bonds. They are all toxic.
2)The 60% equity allocation needs to have a local component and a global component, typically you can choose 20% of it as local and remaining 80% as global. The 20% local could be some good SG based REITs funds.
3)Now the global component, this is where Endowus is awesome. Just keep it simple, choose their Dimension Global Core equity fund or their Dimension World Equity fund(this incomes EMs).

Thats it, you are set!

 

[sohguanh]

My robo invest of 20% equity and 80% fixed income has dropped from 20.5k to 18k.. should I be concern and do something about it, or just leave it and it will eventually be green with long term investment? I kind of lazy investor so thought dump 20k to try with robo investment, initially it was quite ok, but over the last few month it just start to go downhill.. any pro tip or advice here?

You need to share the time horizon e.g you started in which month and year

 

[revhappy]

If you receive the latest email I have a strong suspicion Endowus may later (in future perhaps?) merge with UOBKH ? The email inform from UOBKH utrade we can view the statement same as what we see in Endowus from 1 Apr 2022 onwards. Our fund acct is actually under our name with UOBKH not Endowus so legally UOBKH is the company looking after our investment correct? Hmmm will see how it goes

We can look at it as Endowus is an additional layer on top. UOBKH holds our funds, Endowus takes their cut from as the annual platform fees. But this is a meaty reccuring fee. I think Endowus is making most of the profit here and could be valued much more as a sexy new fintech than UOBKH, which otherwise is a dying legacy broker.

 

[sohguanh]

We can look at it as Endowus is an additional layer on top. UOBKH holds our funds, Endowus takes their cut from as the annual platform fees. But this is a meaty reccuring fee. I think Endowus is making most of the profit here and could be valued much more as a sexy new fintech than UOBKH, which otherwise is a dying legacy broker.

You see FSM and Endowus $100 can buy is a big factor for me for mutual fund. I started with FSM way back in 2000 and usually 1-5K is minimal investment to a fund. Now is 2022, $100 can buy in already so previously $1000 you can test water on 10 different funds. If lose at most $100 not a bad deal to test. Look at those single stock investor they lose only $100 for each failed trade? I highly doubt so.

 

[Alibeckham]

I had a look at Endowus advised portfolios and I have to say, I am not impressed with their portfolio construction. Their 100% risk portfolio, has US overweight and also has EM and Pacific basin small companies. Not even sure why you need these. Then their 80:20 portfolio, 60:40 portfolio also has EM and lot of pimco fixed income funds some of them are also EM fixed income funds. Holy crap.

Here is what I would suggest, their single fund portfolios are awesome., so make use of that.

Generally it is suggested to have a 3 fund portfolio:
60/40 allocation(+/- depending on your risk allowance)
1)The 40% fixed income component, either use your CPF or something else that is SGD denominated and SGD domicle investment grade bond fund like MB not some China Property developer high yield bonds. They are all toxic.
2)The 60% equity allocation needs to have a local component and a global component, typically you can choose 20% of it as local and remaining 80% as global. The 20% local could be some good SG based REITs funds.
3)Now the global component, this is where Endowus is awesome. Just keep it simple, choose their Dimension Global Core equity fund or their Dimension World Equity fund(this incomes EMs).

Thats it, you are set!

I had a look at Endowus advised portfolios and I have to say, I am not impressed with their portfolio construction. Their 100% risk portfolio, has US overweight and also has EM and Pacific basin small companies. Not even sure why you need these. Then their 80:20 portfolio, 60:40 portfolio also has EM and lot of pimco fixed income funds some of them are also EM fixed income funds. Holy crap.

Here is what I would suggest, their single fund portfolios are awesome., so make use of that.

Generally it is suggested to have a 3 fund portfolio:
60/40 allocation(+/- depending on your risk allowance)
1)The 40% fixed income component, either use your CPF or something else that is SGD denominated and SGD domicle investment grade bond fund like MB not some China Property developer high yield bonds. They are all toxic.
2)The 60% equity allocation needs to have a local component and a global component, typically you can choose 20% of it as local and remaining 80% as global. The 20% local could be some good SG based REITs funds.
3)Now the global component, this is where Endowus is awesome. Just keep it simple, choose their Dimension Global Core equity fund or their Dimension World Equity fund(this incomes EMs).

Thats it, you are set!

Basically from the app I saw the following portfolio arranged by Endowus :
PIMCO GIS Global Bond Fund
Fixed Income Fund
PIMCO GIS Income Fund (Acc)
Fixed Income Fund
Dimensional Global Core Fixed
Income Fund
Fixed Income Fund
PIMCO GIS Emerging Markets Bond
Fund
Fixed Income Fund
Dimensional Global Core Equity Fund
Equity Fund
S&P 500 LionGlobal Infinity U.S 500
Stock Index Fund
Equity Fund
Dimensional Emerging Markets Large
Cap Core Equity Fund
Equity Fund
Dimensional Pacific Basin Small
Companies Fund
Equity Fund
24.7%
24.1%
20.2%
11.6%
7.8%
6.7%
2.9%
2.0%

Basically I started in dec 2020 with 10k, and until Dec 2021 I had about 2-3% growth, then in dec 2022 I injected another $10k. But since then, it has started to depreciate until $18.9k now.

 

[sohguanh]

Basically from the app I saw the following portfolio arranged by Endowus :
PIMCO GIS Global Bond Fund
Fixed Income Fund
PIMCO GIS Income Fund (Acc)
Fixed Income Fund
Dimensional Global Core Fixed
Income Fund
Fixed Income Fund
PIMCO GIS Emerging Markets Bond
Fund
Fixed Income Fund
Dimensional Global Core Equity Fund
Equity Fund
S&P 500 LionGlobal Infinity U.S 500
Stock Index Fund
Equity Fund
Dimensional Emerging Markets Large
Cap Core Equity Fund
Equity Fund
Dimensional Pacific Basin Small
Companies Fund
Equity Fund
24.7%
24.1%
20.2%
11.6%
7.8%
6.7%
2.9%
2.0%

Basically I started in dec 2020 with 10k, and until Dec 2021 I had about 2-3% growth, then in dec 2022 I injected another $10k. But since then, it has started to depreciate until $18.9k now.

Your 10K is lump sum investment? Hmmm... assume it allow you a minimum investment, you can every week, month slowly put in ?

 

[Alibeckham]

Your 10K is lump sum investment? Hmmm... assume it allow you a minimum investment, you can every week, month slowly put in ?

I just throw it in as lump sum to try out how good is the “robo adviser” lor.. after that no more injection on funds

 

[sohguanh]

I just throw it in as lump sum to try out how good is the “robo adviser” lor.. after that no more injection on funds

Not saying you are wrong but I think 1K will get you into the advised portfolio? You are very daring to pump in 10K for something that is new investment instrument. Not saying you are wrong such action only have two outcome. If make it very green color, if never make it very red color since your capital is 10K instead of 1K

Endowus allow you to pick your own funds via Fund Smart and those minimum $100 can buy but I know some investors don't want to research which exact fund to buy so try out their advised portfolio instead noted.

 

[dappermen]

had a look at Endowus advised portfolios and I have to say, I am not impressed with their portfolio construction. Their 100% risk portfolio, has US overweight and also has EM and Pacific basin small companies. Not even sure why you need these. Then their 80:20 portfolio, 60:40 portfolio also has EM and lot of pimco fixed income funds some of them are also EM fixed income funds. Holy crap.

Here is what I would suggest, their single fund portfolios are awesome

i dont take their advised pf!

i believe those videos i have been attaching dont too!

or handpicked eg these:
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...-robo-stocks-or.6476646/page-6#post-137885401we shared in several threads dpending on their nature:

-My edwus robo diy - is a pf of ESG Mirova Global Sustainable Equity Fund & ESG Schroder ISF Global Climate Change Fund etc
combined time-wt ret is 16.17% (9 feb 2021 commenced w mid sep rebalancing, hence abt 9 mths)
simple ret 10.43%



-SUAS iShares MSCI USA SRI UCITS ETF too https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/SUAS.L?p=SUAS.L
it definitely will not score far behind than those IWDA CSPX ISAC VWRA https://www.ishares.com/uk/individu...-etf?switchLocale=y&siteEntryPassthrough=true

doubt we will advise using this too: Income pf?
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...ios-stable-vs-higher-vs-future.6668220/page-3

 

[WoShiPro]

My fund smart portfolio is down 5.5%.. Lion global s&p500 and global 70% emerging and china 30%. DCA every quarter for this account..

Cash smart ultra portfolio is also down 1%.. SRS dimensional is down 4.5%..

All red lol

 

[s0crates]

I had a look at Endowus advised portfolios and I have to say, I am not impressed with their portfolio construction. Their 100% risk portfolio, has US overweight and also has EM and Pacific basin small companies. Not even sure why you need these. Then their 80:20 portfolio, 60:40 portfolio also has EM and lot of pimco fixed income funds some of them are also EM fixed income funds. Holy crap.

Here is what I would suggest, their single fund portfolios are awesome., so make use of that.

Generally it is suggested to have a 3 fund portfolio:
60/40 allocation(+/- depending on your risk allowance)
1)The 40% fixed income component, either use your CPF or something else that is SGD denominated and SGD domicle investment grade bond fund like MB not some China Property developer high yield bonds. They are all toxic.
2)The 60% equity allocation needs to have a local component and a global component, typically you can choose 20% of it as local and remaining 80% as global. The 20% local could be some good SG based REITs funds.
3)Now the global component, this is where Endowus is awesome. Just keep it simple, choose their Dimension Global Core equity fund or their Dimension World Equity fund(this incomes EMs).

Thats it, you are set!

I don't agree with you. What's wrong with having a globally diversified portfolio with Emerging markets? This is a very conventional approach. Also not sure why you have issues with the PIMCO income funds, what do you want them to invest in?

SSB? Singapore government bonds?

Not everyone shares the view that CPF is a bond ( it's not, it doesn't act like it) and can allow a roboadvisor "rebalance" a CPF and equity fund portfolio.

The very suggestion of it is ridiculous in terms of implementation. Robos are meant to be a fuss free, intuitive investment solution, not a randomly put together bits and pieces of investment parts.

Don't know if you realise, the only "smart" roboadvisor that used a bunch of SGX listed ETFs (es3, a35, MBH etc) is Stashaway Income. They basically took that few pathetic ETFs that are available on sgx and call it a Singapore income portfolio.

Lol the returns are so sh1t because of the exposure in investment grade bonds and how STI is absolute rubbish.

It just shows the whole STI, MBH,A35 for Singaporean approach doesn't work, and there will be suckers who are obsessed with the sg markets that will miss out better opportunities. Let the mispricing stick I guess, I am out of SG exposure lol