EndowUs Roboadvisor: investing using CPF

[revhappy]

I don't agree with you. What's wrong with having a globally diversified portfolio with Emerging markets? This is a very conventional approach. Also not sure why you have issues with the PIMCO income funds, what do you want them to invest in?

SSB? Singapore government bonds?

Not everyone shares the view that CPF is a bond ( it's not, it doesn't act like it) and can allow a roboadvisor "rebalance" a CPF and equity fund portfolio.

The very suggestion of it is ridiculous in terms of implementation. Robos are meant to be a fuss free, intuitive investment solution, not a randomly put together bits and pieces of investment parts.

Don't know if you realise, the only "smart" roboadvisor that used a bunch of SGX listed ETFs (es3, a35, MBH etc) is Stashaway Income. They basically took that few pathetic ETFs that are available on sgx and call it a Singapore income portfolio.

Lol the returns are so sh1t because of the exposure in investment grade bonds and how STI is absolute rubbish.

It just shows the whole STI, MBH,A35 for Singaporean approach doesn't work, and there will be suckers who are obsessed with the sg markets that will miss out better opportunities. Let the mispricing stick I guess, I am out of SG exposure lol

It is okay to agree to disagree My view is fixed income needs to be local, especially when you currency is already strong and well managed, why go and invite totally undue FX risk? Fixed income these days is not really about income with yields so low and about to rise. What we looking from fixed income is just stability and dry powder for rebalancing. For that you have options in the SGD fixed income space I believe A35 and MBH.

I know ES3 is not the best index, which is why I would suggest REITs and banks for local exposure. Being Robos that wouldn't be hard to string together I would imagine?

 

[s0crates]

It is okay to agree to disagree My view is fixed income needs to be local, especially when you currency is already strong and well managed, why go and invite totally undue FX risk? Fixed income these days is not really about income with yields so low and about to rise. What we looking from fixed income is just stability and dry powder for rebalancing. For that you have options in the SGD fixed income space I believe A35 and MBH.

I know ES3 is not the best index, which is why I would suggest REITs and banks for local exposure. Being Robos that wouldn't be hard to string together I would imagine?

That's where you are factually wrong. Endowus fixed income exposure is SGD hedged, and SGD denominated. It is entirely possible for fund managers to invest in foreign debt but to hedge the coupons and principal so that there is no FX exposure.

 

[sohguanh]

I know ES3 is not the best index, which is why I would suggest REITs and banks for local exposure. Being Robos that wouldn't be hard to string together I would imagine?

I do agree for SGX REIT and bank stocks will be good but capital for bank stock high so can invest indirectly via mutual fund with lesser capital.

 

[revhappy]

That's where you are factually wrong. Endowus fixed income exposure is SGD hedged, and SGD denominated. It is entirely possible for fund managers to invest in foreign debt but to hedge the coupons and principal so that there is no FX exposure.

Hedging has costs and in case of fixed income the cost is basically inflation/yield differential between the 2 currencies. So what is the point of going into overseas fixed income? The only gain/loss is the credit risk premium of the underlying security.

It is much better and simpler to stick to your local currency issuer investment grade/sovereign bond fund.

This pimco fund has lost 4.44% in the last 1 month!

https://endowus.com/investment-funds-list/pimco-gis-income-fund-IE00BMB3HX34
MBH lost 1% in the last 1 month

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/MBH.SI/
The job security of the entire fund management/financial advisory industry depends on making investing look very complicated and the need for specialists and very complicated structured products to eek out returns. That is total BS and the guys in the US already know this, they have this huge bogleheads group and this whole thing about simple 3 fund portfolio, you are likely to outperform any of these Robo guys.

 

[s0crates]

Hedging has costs and in case of fixed income the cost is basically inflation/yield differential between the 2 currencies. So what is the point of going into overseas fixed income? The only gain/loss is the credit risk premium of the underlying security.

It is much better and simpler to stick to your local currency issuer investment grade/sovereign bond fund.

This pimco fund has lost 4.44% in the last 1 month!

https://endowus.com/investment-funds-list/pimco-gis-income-fund-IE00BMB3HX34
MBH lost 1% in the last 1 month

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/MBH.SI/
The job security of the entire fund management/financial advisory industry depends on making investing look very complicated and the need for specialists and very complicated structured products to eek out returns. That is total BS and the guys in the US already know this, they have this huge bogleheads group and this whole thing about simple 3 fund portfolio, you are likely to outperform any of these Robo guys.

There is where we have a difference in knowledge of investment products and funds.

Abf and mbh has a very fixed mandate in govvies and investment grade products.

https://www.nikkoam.com.sg/etf/sgd-investment-grade-corp-bondhttps://www.nikkoam.com.sg/etf/abf
If you look at their historical returns, they are low, and are not necessarily low risk either. A35 has huge duration risk because of the higher fixed income maturity term of the benchmark index.

We got to realise that the Singapore fixed income market, which is the constraint faced by A35 and MBH, is extremely restrictive. The investable universe is very small and this brings in its own set of risk as well.

I also don't understand why people have the understand that hedging is a cost, you are merely locking in FX exposure in future cash flows at currency pricing everytime there is a new foreign denominated fixed income product in. Yes, there is one off transaction costs, but often large fund managers like PIMCO nett off their currency positions with their other hedged funds at no additional cost.

The fund industry can be elegant amidst the complexity, not all active investing is bad.

 

[dappermen]

Only using CPF ?
Cash is your returns looking fwd to?

Which school u r in? anyone here are the Gen z or even the millenials?

Hear your CEO of ENdowus got to say:


Do note speculative ones r defined diff from what i coined invesmts for the LR
many can say ALL they wanna online (incld at HWZ) yet not held accountable


Do u really scroll each thread from Front to end?
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...cussion-thread.5657352/page-22#post-140597597Some useful info shared much earlier as early as before Q4 2021
https://endowus.com/insights/q3-202...view&utm_campaign=291021-Update-Q3Performance

Dont blindly jump in without realising

 

[s0crates]

Endowus not playing nice, hope SA and syfe reply as well so we can eat popcorn hahahaha.

https://endowus.com/insights/not-all-robo-advisors-created-same
Anyway agree with the article content. Difference in approach is real.

 

[Mephist0pheLes]

Endowus not playing nice, hope SA and syfe reply as well so we can eat popcorn hahahaha.

https://endowus.com/insights/not-all-robo-advisors-created-same
Anyway agree with the article content. Difference in approach is real.

stupid stashaway deserved to be called out.

i was completely new to robos when i entered stashaway. wasnt aware that they are market timer, i did not do enough hw and assumed that they will maintain a relatively stable allocation only to have them double china tech exposure right after i went in.

anyway, many of the ppl i know already sold their stashaway holding.

 

[Okenba]

Stashaway has always been quite open about its ERAA, which is clearly market timing. In fact, they market it as one of its plus points. That they would be able to time the market using this method.
There was a smaller debacle about Gold in 2020. That should have already warned investors about stashaway I think.

 

[iceblendedchoc]

Endowus not playing nice, hope SA and syfe reply as well so we can eat popcorn hahahaha.

https://endowus.com/insights/not-all-robo-advisors-created-same
Anyway agree with the article content. Difference in approach is real.

I expect their MAS in charge of Endowus to be asking them to take down the article or substantiate.

 

[s0crates]

I expect their MAS in charge of Endowus to be asking them to take down the article or substantiate.

Which part? Even a noob retail investor like me understand what Endowus is saying.

If MAS want to regulate they should regulate more on how some of these robos show their projected returns especially if they can easily switch portfolio. They can easily fit data and say they bought apple 20 years ago and declare outperformance seeing how some of these robos do it.

 

[Kojo0403]

my only take away from endowus article is that individual should just buy and hold etf themselves. if most robo can’t or barely beat the benchmark, why bother paying them the fees.

the part where they keen emphasizing on their last 12 months return is quite annoying as well when everyone should know that investment should look over the long term

 

[Okenba]

the part where they keen emphasizing on their last 12 months return is quite annoying as well when everyone should know that investment should look over the long term

Did not get this impression at all. Most of the article seemed to be explaining their investment philosophy and what they mean when they talk about passive and well-diversified.

They even talked about how time in the market was more impt than timing the market.


https://investmentmoats.com/money/c...ingapore-robo-advisers-2022-update-1-7-years/Kyith has a new similar article on comparing Robos.

 

[RedsYWNA]

The gloves are off. Is true that the robo-advisors fundamentally take different approaches though.

Active vs Passive being the biggest difference, other than other things like choice of funds etc.

 

[dappermen]

when did u exit SA? after a few mths? recently?

stupid stashaway deserved to be called out.

i was completely new to robos when i entered stashaway.

i agree w the investmt moat article that robo is for the Long term till u spot they done something fundamentally wrong or illegal
"Investing in these portfolios is supposed to be a long term endeavour."

Oct 2021

Also
In the past i stick w sa is cos they allowed me to opt Not to reopt, now they enforced that all has to reoptimisatn compulsorily!!!!! Hated it!!!!!!!! I dont thk a quarterly or semin annual change is necess, keep it to once a yr or longer!

Discuss your SA here:
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...cussion-thread.5657352/page-19#post-137234197

 

[revhappy]

I was just looking at the Endowus fixed income funds and was looking for something had the lowest expense ratio and was trying to find the perfect fund to make the single fund portfolio to make use of the 30bps access fees. I noticed actually the cash smart ultra fund seems like has a decent yield and at the same time has the best total expense ratio after accounting for the trailer fee rebate and the 0.05% access fee. Anybody has any thoughts on using this at your fixed income component?

So my idea here is: If you want to replicate a 60/40 portfolio, you can DIY and minimize costs by:
1)Choosing the DFA global core/world equity fund in a single fund portfolio for the 60% equity
2)Cash smart ultra for the 40% fixed income.

 

[tesarise]

I was just looking at the Endowus fixed income funds and was looking for something had the lowest expense ratio and was trying to find the perfect fund to make the single fund portfolio to make use of the 30bps access fees. I noticed actually the cash smart ultra fund seems like has a decent yield and at the same time has the best total expense ratio after accounting for the trailer fee rebate and the 0.05% access fee. Anybody has any thoughts on using this at your fixed income component?

So my idea here is: If you want to replicate a 60/40 portfolio, you can DIY and minimize costs by:
1)Choosing the DFA global core/world equity fund in a single fund portfolio for the 60% equity
2)Cash smart ultra for the 40% fixed income.

According to Endowus, their cash smart ultra is more conservative than their 100% fixed income portfolio. They sacrificed a bit of yield for lower volatility.
If you are treating it as a conservative fixed income component, then it should suit you.

 

[sohguanh]

my idea here is: If you want to replicate a 60/40 portfolio, you can DIY and minimize costs by:
1)Choosing the DFA global core/world equity fund in a single fund portfolio for the 60% equity
2)Cash smart ultra for the 40% fixed income.

Readers have feedback Ultra is red colour for them. Don't be greedy Cash Smart Secure will suffice unless you are turned off by the small returns?

 

[revhappy]

Readers have feedback Ultra is red colour for them. Don't be greedy Cash Smart Secure will suffice unless you are turned off by the small returns?

A bit of buy when there is blood on the streets concept works here too. The projected yield now from cash smart ultra has been increasing, so it is red for people who invested when the projected yield was low, but the future returns will make up for it.

 

[revhappy]

According to Endowus, their cash smart ultra is more conservative than their 100% fixed income portfolio. They sacrificed a bit of yield for lower volatility.
If you are treating it as a conservative fixed income component, then it should suit you.

Thanks. I also noticed it is possible to setup a recurring transfer from Cash smart to other portfolio. So we can kind of top up any excess cash into the cash smart portfolio and have monthly fixed DCA transfer setup to an equity portfolio. That makes it very interesting. The cash smart acts like your cash buffer.