Getting started with insurance

xtwis7

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Careshield/Eldershield payouts are independent of the DII payouts.

I would always encourage those young and working to look at DII because for the fact that it offers coverage on a much broader scope which is your emphasis from the beginning too.

Especially when one is in their late 20s or early 30s, I feel DII is way more important than CI.

That's still disability insurance, and evidently you're thinking of the Total and Permanent Disability (TPD) element bundled with term life insurance. TPD pays a one-time lump sum if you're gravely, very seriously disabled.

No, it doesn't make much sense to buy term life insurance just to get its bundled TPD coverage. If you want to "top up" DII -- a reasonable thing to do at $4,800/month since you could have difficulty saving a portion of your DII payout -- then you should be looking at CareShield Life first (or its less attractive predecessor ElderShield, which is still available for the moment). Depending on when you were born you might be required to buy CSL starting in 2020 anyway.

However, please check whether CSL is "coordinated" with DII, which you really don't want, actually. What I mean is that you don't want your DII payout reduced because you're also receiving CSL payouts, by the amount of the CSL payout. I don't think that's how it works, but if it works that way then a little TPD could have some merit. (How much TPD? Enough to fund your CPF Special Account reasonably well, I'd say, since that'd nail down the age 65+ CPF LIFE income stream. Which isn't much, actually.)
 

BBCWatcher

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Careshield/Eldershield payouts are independent of the DII payouts.
I thought that's likely, but thanks for confirming.

I would always encourage those young and working to look at DII because for the fact that it offers coverage on a much broader scope which is your emphasis from the beginning too.

Especially when one is in their late 20s or early 30s, I feel DII is way more important than CI.
Amen.

Back to Tempestuous's situation for a moment. Tempestuous asked a very good question: "How will I tide myself over until I die?" DII payouts run until age 65 maximum (or with the MINDEF/SAF group rider until age 70 maximum). Past that, you'd need a reliable retirement income stream. CPF LIFE works really well in that role as foundational lifetime retirement income. I think it's rather important to nail that down sooner rather than later, but let's suppose you haven't, become disabled, and collect DII until age 65. What then? Well, if you're an heir and your benefactors (your parents for example) are likely to bequeath you an estate of some good size to plump up a CPF Special or Retirement Account, that should work pretty well.

Please note that CareShield Life (CSL) and Total and Permanent Disability (TPD) insurance are quite difficult to claim. Their definitions of disability are very strict indeed. However, if CSL is similar to ElderShield, we might see insurance carriers introduce an optional, extra cost "2 out of 6 ADLs" add-on to CSL that makes it a little easier (though still fairly difficult) to qualify for payouts.
 

xtwis7

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You really don’t want to rely on claiming for ADLs because 2/6 ADLs would mean a pretty serious physical disability but depression or other forms of mental illnesses are not covered, which are becoming more prevalent.

If paying 1-2% of your annual income to protect your lifetime potential earnings is too costly, take a look at how much you’re paying for your CI coverage and see whether that makes sense. Rarely anybody would have more than $1m worth of CI coverage.
 

Ginnnnnnn

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Hi all
Recently I reviewed my NTUC vivocare policy I bought 5 years ago and feel like terminating it. Am looking at AXA Super criticare as replacement.
Can someone share for:
Female, next bday 29yo, non smoker. SA$200k , to age 70. Roughly how much is the monthly premium?
 

moejoseph

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Hi all
Recently I reviewed my NTUC vivocare policy I bought 5 years ago and feel like terminating it. Am looking at AXA Super criticare as replacement.
Can someone share for:
Female, next bday 29yo, non smoker. SA$200k , to age 70. Roughly how much is the monthly premium?

Monthly: $174.12
Yearly: $1990
 

boredboiboi

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Hi all
Recently I reviewed my NTUC vivocare policy I bought 5 years ago and feel like terminating it. Am looking at AXA Super criticare as replacement.
Can someone share for:
Female, next bday 29yo, non smoker. SA$200k , to age 70. Roughly how much is the monthly premium?

Replacing a wholelife after paying for 5 years, i dont recommend that. most probably add on.
 

Ginnnnnnn

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Replacing a wholelife after paying for 5 years, i dont recommend that. most probably add on.

I also had that thought. However, I pay about $150/mth for 100k death before 65yo and 50k CI. Can claim 50% of SA for ECI. CI is remainder of SA if there’s claim. There is 10 years left to go for this policy. I can’t see the value of this policy anymore. I took up when I was young and rash.
It’s ideal to add on but I can’t afford to spend so much. Thus thinking of “cutting losses short”..
 

boredboiboi

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I also had that thought. However, I pay about $150/mth for 100k death before 65yo and 50k CI. Can claim 50% of SA for ECI. CI is remainder of SA if there’s claim. There is 10 years left to go for this policy. I can’t see the value of this policy anymore. I took up when I was young and rash.
It’s ideal to add on but I can’t afford to spend so much. Thus thinking of “cutting losses short”..

If is till 70, you may want to explore a wholelife plan. Latest wholelife plan with multiplier/boost can give you more covers at the same premium. Recently done a quote for a lady age 30. Premium about $2400+ for 25 years,coverage about 200k death/tpd/eci. Coverage after 70 reduce due to boost/multiplier ends but coverage stills continue @ $50k death/tpd/eci. You are younger, premium is lesser.
Just for sharing to give you more option to explore.
 
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roger595

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Any agents ever requested CBS report ?

Just purchased some insurance , agent say required by insurance company. Wonder why as this should be privileged info and even if required , should be online authorization ?
 

moejoseph

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Any agents ever requested CBS report ?

Just purchased some insurance , agent say required by insurance company. Wonder why as this should be privileged info and even if required , should be online authorization ?

Never meet this situation before
 

jq1130

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Hi BBCWatcher,
Im Malaysian 31yo working in Singapore, looking for Hospitalisation Insurance. B1 ward + cover 90%-95% of bills. Any suggestions affordable plan for me? Should I get a Insurance Agent or direct purchase ?
 

insouciance9

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Hi BBCWatcher,
Im Malaysian 31yo working in Singapore, looking for Hospitalisation Insurance. B1 ward + cover 90%-95% of bills. Any suggestions affordable plan for me? Should I get a Insurance Agent or direct purchase ?

You can do your homework and see which is best suited for you.

blog.moneysmart.sg/health-insurance/integrated-shield-comparison/

The difference won't be that much between companies but it's more important to get yourself covered. Find someone you can trust and work with :)
 

jq1130

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Yeah, actually I Google before I post here. The website u share I read before,that is for SC and PRs. I’m just Malaysian holding work permit in spore. I’m confuse should I look for a agent or direct purchase ?
I got friends doing GE and Pru but I have no idea which is better for me.





You can do your homework and see which is best suited for you.

blog.moneysmart.sg/health-insurance/integrated-shield-comparison/

The difference won't be that much between companies but it's more important to get yourself covered. Find someone you can trust and work with :)
 

insouciance9

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Yeah, actually I Google before I post here. The website u share I read before,that is for SC and PRs. I’m just Malaysian holding work permit in spore. I’m confuse should I look for a agent or direct purchase ?
I got friends doing GE and Pru but I have no idea which is better for me.

I would say not to scrimp on the hospitalization insurance and get an agent. Yes, it may be cheaper to buy direct but if you have an agent, it will be better when you need it. An agent acting in your best interest will help you to process and make the claims when you need it. If you buy direct, it will still be ultimately assigned to an agent. When you are hospitalized, the last thing you would want to bother yourself with is all the administrations and procedures. Let your agent take care of that for you. Since you already said you have friends working in this industry, it would be better since you are able to trust them. You can get them to explain to you in greater details. I'm sure they will be more than happy to help you.
 

BBCWatcher

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Hi BBCWatcher,
Im Malaysian 31yo working in Singapore, looking for Hospitalisation Insurance. B1 ward + cover 90%-95% of bills. Any suggestions affordable plan for me? Should I get a Insurance Agent or direct purchase ?

You can do your homework and see which is best suited for you.

blog.moneysmart.sg/health-insurance/integrated-shield-comparison/

The difference won't be that much between companies but it's more important to get yourself covered. Find someone you can trust and work with :)

Yeah, actually I Google before I post here. The website u share I read before,that is for SC and PRs. I’m just Malaysian holding work permit in spore. I’m confuse should I look for a agent or direct purchase ?
I got friends doing GE and Pru but I have no idea which is better for me.
Jq1130 is quite correct that there's a relative abundance of information on the "best" Integrated Shield plans for Singaporean citizens but almost none for foreigners.

OK, with that said, here's how I'd approach this analysis. The first thing is to understand what the "fallback" position is with respect to coverage in Malaysia (home country). I'm not familiar with what medical coverage (public, private, etc.) is available for Malaysian expats back in Malaysia, but if there's a reasonable way to maintain some basic level of coverage there, I would. Most countries can be a pretty unfriendly place when a foreign worker falls ill and cannot work, effectively kicking you out almost as soon as you're medically able to be kicked out.

Another point I should make is that you said "work permit." If that's literally correct, then your employer is required to maintain at least S$15,000 worth of medical insurance coverage for you and also to cover any medically necessary treatment beyond that. Of course the employer has no obligation to pay for care in air conditioned hospital wards, for example.

OK, with that background, you've got two basic medical insurance choices if you want to "backstop" whatever your employer provides. One choice is to buy some sort of "expat" coverage that isn't mostly limited to Singapore. (Integrated Shield plans provide pretty limited coverage outside Singapore. Generally speaking they only cover emergency and urgent care outside Singapore, and then only up to Singapore's prices for your particular insurance plan's maximum ward coverage level.) Pacific Prime is an insurance broker in Singapore that specializes in such "expat" plans, so you could check out what they offer.

Or, yes, you could go with an Integrated Shield plan. One potential advantage with an Integrated Shield plan is that you'd avoid additional coverage limitations for preexisting conditions discovered after the first date you enroll (as a foreigner) if you then end up staying in Singapore as a PR. However, there are two big challenges with public hospital B1 ward plans: being accepted at all as an "unaffiliated" foreigner (a foreigner not married to a Singaporean citizen or PR -- some carriers grant such enrollment exceptions), and then, if you are accepted, not having a unique proration factor applied that reduces your coverage compared to citizens. So let's look at the "as charged" public hospital B1 ward plans to see if any of them clear both of these big hurdles if you're a foreigner:

AIA HealthShield Gold Max B Lite: No
Aviva MyShield Plan 3: No
Great Eastern Supreme Health B Plus: No
NTUC Income Enhanced IncomeShield Basic: "Probably"
Raffles Shield B: No

So there's your only "as charged" public hospital B1 ward plan probably offered to foreigners: NTUC Income's Enhanced IncomeShield Basic. You have to pay the "foreigner" premium to get full benefits (no proration factor), which is currently S$401 per year at your age for the base plan. The Classic Care rider is another S$78 per year, which caps your out of pocket costs per year for covered services at S$3,000, so your total premium would be S$479. I say "probably" because it's the only such plan I've found for which I haven't found a foreigner eligibility or proration limit, but it's possible NTUC Income still won't accept you. Unfortunately foreigners cannot apply for that particular plan and rider online, so you'll have to visit a NTUC Income insurance office or chat with one of their agents.

One alternative if you discover you cannot enroll in that particular plan is to choose the next step up, a public hospital A ward plan. Great Eastern, Prudential, and Raffles Shield all offer excellent plans in that market segment, and I know Prudential at least is open to foreigners, so let's look at their premiums for somebody age 31....

PRUShield Plus (base plan): $445
PRUExtra Plus CoPay (rider): $259
Total = $704

So, quite a bit more expensive, but one of the A ward plans might be the best you can do if you cannot get enrolled in NTUC Income's plan.

Hope that helps!
 

BBCWatcher

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I would say not to scrimp on the hospitalization insurance and get an agent. Yes, it may be cheaper to buy direct but if you have an agent, it will be better when you need it.
This is a common mythology, and it doesn't matter with public hospital Integrated Shield plans.

However, very few of the Integrated Shield plans are direct purchase. For better or worse (probably worse), you almost always have to deal with an agent.

An agent acting in your best interest will help you to process and make the claims when you need it. If you buy direct, it will still be ultimately assigned to an agent. When you are hospitalized, the last thing you would want to bother yourself with is all the administrations and procedures. Let your agent take care of that for you.
No, not actually. Public hospital in Singapore have all shifted to direct electronic claims.
 

insouciance9

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This is a common mythology, and it doesn't matter with public hospital Integrated Shield plans.

However, very few of the Integrated Shield plans are direct purchase. For better or worse (probably worse), you almost always have to deal with an agent.


No, not actually. Public hospital in Singapore have all shifted to direct electronic claims.

What if client wants to go private hospital? Also all pre and post medical hospital claims (public or private) have to be done through manual submission and with an agent, he/she can help you with that. Point here is that unless you like to do everything on your own, it is always better to deal with an agent. I've been hospitalized before, and I can tell you the last thing I want to do is to deal with all the administrative work when I'm in bed or still not fully recovered. Just pay for the service rendered to you. Moreover, if my friends are my agent, they will most likely act in my best interest. If so, I honestly don't mind paying for their service.
 
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BBCWatcher

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What if client wants to go private hospital?
What if? Jq1130 asked specifically about public hospital B1 ward Integrated Shield plans, which are not designed to cover private hospital care. Jq1130 is exceedingly unlikely to be obtaining care from a private hospital in Singapore.

You can defend the insurance industry's agent system if you want (I wouldn't), but it simply isn't relevant to jq1130's hospital claims, which the public hospitals directly file electronically.

Moreover, if my friends are my agent, they will most likely act in my best interest so if I honestly don't mind paying for their service.
It's exceedingly unlikely that jq1130, a work permit holder from Malaysia, will have a friendship (or even "friendship") with an insurance agent, but I suppose it's possible. In which case, jq1130 presumably would have asked that agent-friend for advice already.

Another reason this whole digression is moot is that jq1130 won't be able to buy an Integrated Shield plan directly from the carrier, if jq1130 decides to buy an Integrated Shield plan. There is no direct purchase of an Integrated Shield plan on the table for jq1130, so if direct purchase of insurance offends your sensibilities, relax, jq1130 won't be offending your sensibilities on this particular occasion. This particular purchase will have to be through an agent, whether a friend, "friend," or neither.
 
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jq1130

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OK, with that said, here's how I'd approach this analysis. The first thing is to understand what the "fallback" position is with respect to coverage in Malaysia (home country). I'm not familiar with what medical coverage (public, private, etc.) is available for Malaysian expats back in Malaysia, but if there's a reasonable way to maintain some basic level of coverage there, I would. Most countries can be a pretty unfriendly place when a foreign worker falls ill and cannot work, effectively kicking you out almost as soon as you're medically able to be kicked out.
Thanks for u comments,really appreciate.
Actually I rarely go back msia, i heard that after leaving Malaysia for 6 months, insurance is not covered. So i dint plan to buy hospital insurance in malaysia (medical card)

Another point I should make is that you said "work permit." If that's literally correct, then your employer is required to maintain at least S$15,000 worth of medical insurance coverage for you and also to cover any medically necessary treatment beyond that. Of course the employer has no obligation to pay for care in air conditioned hospital wards, for example.
Yup,i just checked the handbook. I have to pay the full expenses and subsequently claim from insurer.
https://imgur.com/85fKsqY
Do you think i still need to get NTUC Income's Enhanced IncomeShield Basic
or PRUShield Plus (base plan)+PRUExtra Plus CoPay (rider)
 
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