(GPGT)Espresso machine hoot

[derazor]

After pulling a proper shot that is within 25s and 30s, I can taste that sourness is minimal and a tad bitter, I would say it's balanced.

+1 knowledge abit this week

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

haha trick question, think I kena liao haha....

anyway I just weigh X gram and hoot inside the grinder and dose whatever I can to the basket.

Need to be so exact ah? Now is like from art to engineering liao.

I see barista just dose groom and pull.

After reading quite abit about making espresso, each enthusiast has a certain pet peeves or sequence and sometimes it confusing LOL..

anyway luckily espresso is like a hobby to me so it's OK of course if can learn to become a barista can aslo +1 skill to my resume la, j/k

half a gram makes a slight difference to the pour rate and half a gram is 4 beans (or half bean depending on the definition)

When i'm trying to dial in the grinder with a new blend I try to be as accurate as possible. After the grinder has been dialled in (k3 can dose based on time, not always accurate but within reasonable limits) then usually I won't bother to weigh again unless the espresso doesn't taste good.

once you have settled in to your own personal routine its quite effortless to make the shot.

Not to mention the grinder also have to purge old grinds out by putting in new beans, a sad waste of beans but unfortunately necessary since most of us don't make drinks back to back.

 

[chikyblink]

Not to mention the grinder also have to purge old grinds out by putting in new beans, a sad waste of beans but unfortunately necessary since most of us don't make drinks back to back.

Thats the problem with most grinders. Its always purge purge purge. Money down the drain. Even after all the purging, you can never get rid of all the stale grounds inside. Grounds will be stuck to every nook and cranny after exiting the burrs. Every dose is always fresh grounds mixed in with some stale grounds.

With my Lelit, I purge about 10+gm 1st thing in the morning then pull my shot. My 1st shot always goes in the sink. Nasty tasting sh*t. But it gets better with the 2nd and 3rd shots. On average, I waste about 2-3 shots per day.

Below is a picture I took after removing the chute, brush grounds out, pulse, brush, pulse, brush ,etc. The grounds you see scattered below is just the tip of the iceberg. Most are still stuck somewhere in the grinder and can only be pushed out by grinding more beans, then the cycle continues.

With my HG One, what goes in, comes out. After grinding about 5 shots, I stopped weighing the output because its pointless. The difference is a mere 0.1gm. No more nasty 1st shots. My espresso now tastes amazing. Better than anything from the Lelit. I'm thinking about selling my Lelit.
I urge anyone who have doubts to come over, bring your usual blend, and taste the difference.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

Thats the problem with most grinders. Its always purge purge purge. Money down the drain. Even after all the purging, you can never get rid of all the stale grounds inside. Grounds will be stuck to every nook and cranny after exiting the burrs. Every dose is always fresh grounds mixed in with some stale grounds.

With my Lelit, I purge about 10+gm 1st thing in the morning then pull my shot. My 1st shot always goes in the sink. Nasty tasting sh*t. But it gets better with the 2nd and 3rd shots. On average, I waste about 2-3 shots per day.

Below is a picture I took after removing the chute, brush grounds out, pulse, brush, pulse, brush ,etc. The grounds you see scattered below is just the tip of the iceberg. Most are still stuck somewhere in the grinder and can only be pushed out by grinding more beans, then the cycle continues.

With my HG One, what goes in, comes out. After grinding about 5 shots, I stopped weighing the output because its pointless. The difference is a mere 0.1gm. No more nasty 1st shots. My espresso now tastes amazing. Better than anything from the Lelit. I'm thinking about selling my Lelit.
I urge anyone who have doubts to come over, bring your usual blend, and taste the difference.

You made an excellent purchase with the HG one. I think the design of most grinders were really for commercial use. I agree the first shot is nasty. It will be lacking crema and the flow from the spout is like from a burst sewage pipe. Very obvious the grounds are stale.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

After pulling a proper shot that is within 25s and 30s, I can taste that sourness is minimal and a tad bitter, I would say it's balanced.

+1 knowledge abit this week

Try a ristretto 30ml total volume with 14g-18g of beans (more if u like punchier stuff) in 25-30s. Need to grind finer. The drink will almost be devoid of bitterness and sourness and will have some salty sweetness to it.

 

[calbay]

Hmm..

I like to clarify, i don't do any distribution to the portafilter and don't find it necessary. There's no taste difference.
What's important is to make sure the tamping is lever for consistent extraction.
I don't care about clumping, not care about tamping too hard.
When your tamper comes down, it will distribute itself.
I dose the coffee out of the grinder, and just tamp lightly straight.
Quick, clean and simple. No fancy gimmicky actions.

If your grinds are flying off the portafilter while it's dosing out. Then you are clearly wasting and also making your life difficult with more cleaning by dosing too much.

First it depends on the type of grinder you are using.
Among all, as i always recommend, are the On Demand Grinders(ODG)
1.Consistent
2.Easy
3.Fast

On your first cup, just come out about 3 grammes of coffee to rid the overnight grinds from yesterday.
That will be more than enough, it's a less than 3 seconds process, not hard.
Just activate a single dose of grinding and stop half time.
It will still be much fresher and certainly easier method than a solution of pouring each cup of dosage independently via hand grinder or old school dosers grinders.
Efficiency wise, save at least 80% time which definitely benefits the user.

Back to the ODG, you must first understand how it works.
Can it configure the timer too?

How much Grammes of coffee out depends on both the time it grinds and the fineness.

Say i put as 3 seconds.
3 seconds at coarse grind
and
3 seconds at finer grind has a difference in volume of how much powder you will get.

If it's coarser, the particles are bigger, so 3 seconds of coarse grindings produces more load of coffee and you may have to reduce the timer to reduce the load to maintain the same Grammes of coffee.

I'm not sure if you can capture the logic of what i said, but this is something basic and what you have to understand about your grinder first.
If you are seeing that the grind is coming so much out, until it overflows, then reduce it via the timer/timing.

Output wise, the flow depends on how dense is the bed of coffee which decides from how fine is the grind(mainly) and how much coffee used. So even if you use lesser powder, that don't mean your output will definitely be runny and lack of volume.

Crema is important for it's function which i'm not sure anyone here even knows what it is, it's not everything in an expresso. Just sidetrack abit, Nespresso only uses 5 grammes of coffee and can produce a reasonably thick crema.

So this brings back to the point why will you want to use more coffee to do a cup if the end result is almost similar? Furthermore a lot of the "excess" powder you used, end up spilling all over to make your life difficult.

If you are using a 58mm portafilter, running standard and authentic italian style of 7/14 grammes. It should all fall nicely into the portafilter with minimal mess as it's simply not overflowing.

If you want to follow the American culture in using big double/triple full baskets of powder, i hope you are also aware they are using higher temperature which i hope you understand how coffee will scientifically react to that.

Keep espresso making simple as it should, not over complicating it. Else it will be very hard to capture consistency and figuring out how to extract a good [TASTE] shot.

The variables should be at the part in how you control the machine's temperature, the preinfusion, etc.
Not starting and staying focus from your first step at grinding, you should move on from this quick.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

Hmm..

Crema is important for it's function which i'm not sure anyone here even knows what it is, it's not everything in an expresso.

A product of pressurised hot water running thru a bed of coffee grounds extracting Tiny CO2 bubbles coated with certain coffee oils and water that eventual settles on the top of the cup to form a foam and possibly a colloid?
care to educate us on what else do you think crema is?

of course crema is not everything there is to the drink, just like the head of a good pint of guinness does not define a guinness. Crema is a good indicator if the rate of extraction is ideal (of course what is ideal is debatable). Eventually you will still have to taste what is extracted to know whether the extraction is successful. Like I have said the taste is all that matters and it is personal.

I have a nespresso too and my guess the reason why nespresso can still produce reasonable crema and taste like drain water is because there is still co2 trapped in the sealed capsules but the grounds are still ancient. This is the same with my dolce gusto. The nespresso foil system also ensures that after the top foil is punctured just prior to extraction the gasses do not all escape immediately and most of the gasses still is mixed with the water and coffee oils and extracted out.

This gives me a good idea. I'll go puncture a few capsules now and bleed out the gas and test.

 

[calbay]

Haaha. Wrong answer.

BTW in the capsules, they are nitrogen flushed, not co2 flushed. They have to rest the coffee before inserting else it pops the capsules. It will still release co2 coffee in the capsules but as it's said, it's released.

Anyway I had revealed too much trade secrets, I know alot of people in the industry here. As for what's the main function for the crema. I will leave it for people really interested to ownself find out.

Those people who were properly trained should know it's not just for texture or visual.

 

[diu___]

satki coffee maker must use satki beans e.g bluemoutain, civet cat

 

[IntelFlash]

I can now make a cappuccino almost as fast as Nepresso, clearing up as well.

Grind 3 secs, tamp 3 secs, extraction 28 secs.
Froth milk while extracting, about 30 secs?
Can't time as i was too focused.

haha

Clean the steam wand, 5-10 secs.
Knock out the remains off the portafilter 10 secs.
Then flush the emplied portafilter 10 secs. ( I am actually thinking of dumping the used portafilter into a pail of water and clean only after a few days. Before use then i dry it. Theorically should be no problem since coffee isn't going to decay like that )
Wash the steel jar 10 secs

Done. haha feel so proud of it.

On the first day it was hell, i spent few hours figuring out.

Now i'm experimenting with release some water to wet the grinds before extraction, call it pre infusion i guess.

My milk foam still not as much, need to perfect that, my steam tip has one hole and i thought it should be easier.

 

[Qingrong]

I can now make a cappuccino almost as fast as Nepresso, clearing up as well.

Grind 3 secs, tamp 3 secs, extraction 28 secs.
Froth milk while extracting, about 30 secs?
Can't time as i was too focused.

haha

Clean the steam wand, 5-10 secs.
Knock out the remains off the portafilter 10 secs.
Then flush the emplied portafilter 10 secs. ( I am actually thinking of dumping the used portafilter into a pail of water and clean only after a few days. Before use then i dry it. Theorically should be no problem since coffee isn't going to decay like that )
Wash the steel jar 10 secs

Done. haha feel so proud of it.

On the first day it was hell, i spent few hours figuring out.

Now i'm experimenting with release some water to wet the grinds before extraction, call it pre infusion i guess.

My milk foam still not as much, need to perfect that, my steam tip has one hole and i thought it should be easier.

is it true the position of the tip of steam wand will affect the amount of foam? if tip is just below the surface of milk, more foam. deeper into the milk, less foam.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

is it true the position of the tip of steam wand will affect the amount of foam? if tip is just below the surface of milk, more foam. deeper into the milk, less foam.

yup pretty much. but eventually you need to use a combination of the 2 positions to get the desired result. longer time just below surface and shorter time deeper gets you something like a cappuccino. Shorter time at the surface and longer time deeper to swirl the milk gets you the micro foam for latte. I add in one second of steaming where the wand is just very very slightly touching the tip of the surface to quickly introduce air into the milk before putting the tip just below the surface for about 4 seconds and finally plunging the tip deeper inside to swirl the milk for about 5 seconds.

Depending on your tip (1 hole, 2 hole, 4 hole) etc etc need to position the wand carefully at certain portions of the steaming pitcher to get the swirling correct to create the micro foam. Not to mention depending on the pitcher size need ensure the steam power is correct.

Chikyblink just curious is your domo jr a 2 hole or 4 hole tip?

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

Haaha. Wrong answer.

BTW in the capsules, they are nitrogen flushed, not co2 flushed. They have to rest the coffee before inserting else it pops the capsules. It will still release co2 coffee in the capsules but as it's said, it's released.

Anyway I had revealed too much trade secrets, I know alot of people in the industry here. As for what's the main function for the crema. I will leave it for people really interested to ownself find out.

Those people who were properly trained should know it's not just for texture or visual.

Come on don't be such a tease. You won't offend the crema god or which ever industry big wig you claim to know by sharing to us what is crema and its "function" now, would you?

I never stated that the capsules are CO2 flushed. Nitrogen flushing or sealing is a common fnb sealing practice for freshness to displace O2 with an inert gas.

Anyway result of the experiment did not reveal any difference if I puncture the capsule 3 hours before brewing. Maybe not long enough to let all the gasses escape or maybe the capsule works like a pressurised portafiler

 

[chesterqw]

today bought a hario mini grinder, super good workout for my arms.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

I can now make a cappuccino almost as fast as Nepresso, clearing up as well.

Grind 3 secs, tamp 3 secs, extraction 28 secs.
Froth milk while extracting, about 30 secs?
Can't time as i was too focused.

haha

Clean the steam wand, 5-10 secs.
Knock out the remains off the portafilter 10 secs.
Then flush the emplied portafilter 10 secs. ( I am actually thinking of dumping the used portafilter into a pail of water and clean only after a few days. Before use then i dry it. Theorically should be no problem since coffee isn't going to decay like that )
Wash the steel jar 10 secs

Done. haha feel so proud of it.

On the first day it was hell, i spent few hours figuring out.

Now i'm experimenting with release some water to wet the grinds before extraction, call it pre infusion i guess.

My milk foam still not as much, need to perfect that, my steam tip has one hole and i thought it should be easier.

Bro what machine are you using to do the pre infusion? I've never really tested out pre infusion effect but a e-61 does do some pre infusion.

I actually find steaming using a hole silvia is easier for beginners because the machine not so powerful and gives time to react. machines with huge boiler can steam a small pitcher in 7 secs on full power!

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

today bought a hario mini grinder, super good workout for my arms.

bring to office and walk around while grinding. spread the love in the air.....

 

[calbay]

Come on don't be such a tease. You won't offend the crema god or which ever industry big wig you claim to know by sharing to us what is crema and its "function" now, would you?

I never stated that the capsules are CO2 flushed. Nitrogen flushing or sealing is a common fnb sealing practice for freshness to displace O2 with an inert gas.

Anyway result of the experiment did not reveal any difference if I puncture the capsule 3 hours before brewing. Maybe not long enough to let all the gasses escape or maybe the capsule works like a pressurised portafiler

Hmm.. maybe some of the "coffee academies" in Singapore can help?

 

[chikyblink]

Chikyblink just curious is your domo jr a 2 hole or 4 hole tip?

2 hole lah, 1st page got pic also leh.

Took me awhile to find my sweet spot. Most ppl would swirl their milk horizontally, like a whirlpool. I like to do vertical swirling. Great results every time.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

Hmm.. maybe some of the "coffee academies" in Singapore can help?

Haha better than Illy calling their coffee training classes a university right? Got master degree some more hor! Give our local industry a chance to mature lah, there were hardly any speciality coffee 15 years ago when I started this hobby.

Sharing our knowledge and having productive discussion is way more useful than being ultra secretive and uppity about it especially when its about a simple discussion on a coffee oil foam called crema lah. This isn't about some ultra sensitive secret defence pact between China and DPRK.

Anyway i'm not affiliated with the industry here. Just a consumer and hobbyist.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

2 hole lah, 1st page got pic also leh.

Took me awhile to find my sweet spot. Most ppl would swirl their milk horizontally, like a whirlpool. I like to do vertical swirling. Great results every time.

same mine is also a 2 hole. took some time before i got used to it, coming from a small boiler 1 hole.