(GPGT)Espresso machine hoot

[The_King]

i perfer this

inside the container i have the normal cofffee bag with air val, i spit my coffee bean in 4 bag and zip it up and pushing as much as out as i can or zometime zip 90% and use mouth to suck more ait out and put the coffee bag into the neoflame and lock it and pump the air from the container out

 

[IntelFlash]

i perfer this

inside the container i have the normal cofffee bag with air val, i spit my coffee bean in 4 bag and zip it up and pushing as much as out as i can or zometime zip 90% and use mouth to suck more ait out and put the coffee bag into the neoflame and lock it and pump the air from the container out

I don't think air can be removed, only replaced.
This method may work by creating a lower pressure and lower density of O2. It still oxidises but slightly more slowly.

TBH i just dump into the hopper the entire bag of 200 grammes.
I estimate i make 2-3 cups, and use about 20-30 grammes a weekday, last less than a week.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

I don't think air can be removed, only replaced.
This method may work by creating a lower pressure and lower density of O2. It still oxidises but slightly more slowly.

TBH i just dump into the hopper the entire bag of 200 grammes.
I estimate i make 2-3 cups, and use about 20-30 grammes a weekday, last less than a week.

Just a thought maybe storing on the coffee bean in a vacuum actually causes it to lose more of its natural co2 faster as compared to storing it under normal pressure. And thus while there is less oxygen in the container to cause oxidisation of the coffee oils, the bean is still adversely affected especially for espresso as co2 is necessary during espresso extraction to form proper crema and to create ideal flow rate (syrupy instead of runny).

 

[derazor]

I don't think air can be removed, only replaced.
This method may work by creating a lower pressure and lower density of O2. It still oxidises but slightly more slowly.

TBH i just dump into the hopper the entire bag of 200 grammes.
I estimate i make 2-3 cups, and use about 20-30 grammes a weekday, last less than a week.

like that ok? I thought about that.

Say the coffee is roasted like 3 days ago + 7 days to clear it off from the hopper. But maybe weighing the output to the basket might be abit difficult?

 

[derazor]

Q1. Would it be better to aim 4s or 5s when the espresso mouse tail start?

Q2. Without a stop watch, how do you gage when to stop the extraction? When it hits 30ml or before blonding? How to see blonding?

Paiseh noobie questions.

 

[IntelFlash]

like that ok? I thought about that.

Say the coffee is roasted like 3 days ago + 7 days to clear it off from the hopper. But maybe weighing the output to the basket might be abit difficult?

of course ok rah, if you go portion by portion dump in, i think even worse.
You don't see people split their wine to keep.

Just don't buy too much beans at one time, and finish in 5-7 days.
Best solution.

 

[derazor]

of course ok rah, if you go portion by portion dump in, i think even worse.
You don't see people split their wine to keep.

Just don't buy too much beans at one time, and finish in 5-7 days.
Best solution.

how you do the dispensing agakration to the basket? I'm using doserless btw and no timer.

 

[The_King]

I don't think air can be removed, only replaced.
This method may work by creating a lower pressure and lower density of O2. It still oxidises but slightly more slowly.

TBH i just dump into the hopper the entire bag of 200 grammes.
I estimate i make 2-3 cups, and use about 20-30 grammes a weekday, last less than a week.

i dun use as much as you, 250gram can last me 3 week.

 

[IntelFlash]

how you do the dispensing agakration to the basket? I'm using doserless btw and no timer.

No timer?
It goes non stop?

Mine can program how many seconds, accurate to the 0.2 seconds.
0.2 seconds really make a lot of difference, like half gram which is a pretty decent chunk.

Download a timer app then

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

how you do the dispensing agakration to the basket? I'm using doserless btw and no timer.

You can heat the filter basket first, dry it quickly, weigh the basket and then dose, weigh and dose until you get the correct dose if you don't use timer.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

i dun use as much as you, 250gram can last me 3 week.

for me personally i won't leave it in the hopper as my hopper is huge and its not air tight. even with an airtight cover the spout where the beans exit is not airtight. So its like leaving the beans in a container with a hole.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

Q1. Would it be better to aim 4s or 5s when the espresso mouse tail start?

Q2. Without a stop watch, how do you gage when to stop the extraction? When it hits 30ml or before blonding? How to see blonding?

Paiseh noobie questions.

A1. This qn is hard to answer. Depends on your machine's pressure profile (preinfusion etc) and your dosage and grind fineness. Even then if you are usually a porta filter with a spout its really hard to gauge when the first drops will fall. But generally from my experience if you are using a e61 type group head you should start getting a good flow around 10s. My e61 group head takes 6 secs to reach full pressure and only after 10secs will you see a mouse tail flow instead of drips. THen again pls note I prefer ristretto so my flow rate is much slower compared to the so called standard.

A2. Using Blonding to gauge when to cut your extracton is not very useful because the espresso colour changes quite gradually during the extraction. Your brown may be my platinum blonde. So I just prefer to dial in so that by the time i reach 30s I will notice that the flow can be seen to be somewhat runny and no longer having the syrupy drip. Why do i take this to be the indicator? Because I have separated and tasted this runny bit and I do not like the taste. Its harsh - astringent and bitter and lacks a good aroma. Its not something I want in my espresso. But taste buds differ. you may find this portion of the extraction to gives balance to the overall profile of your drink.

just diligently experiment and be consistent while you are at it. Taste your results and refine your extraction variables until you are satisfied.

But bottom line have fun and don't overdose.

 

[chikyblink]

like that ok? I thought about that.

Say the coffee is roasted like 3 days ago + 7 days to clear it off from the hopper. But maybe weighing the output to the basket might be abit difficult?

Just grind into a paper/plastic cup if you're weighing your dose. Then transfer the grounds into your portafilter.

 

[kenshinz]

Singapore National Barista Championship 2014
Singapore National Barista Championship is back in 2014!
Date: 6th – 8th March 2014
Venue: Marina Bay Sands, Singapore

More info here

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

Beautiful flow from a slayer machine. And Using a Glencairn whisky nosing glass after that to nose and consume the shot! I've been using this whisky glasses for years but it never occurred to me to test it out to nose espresso.

Will try out and post experience!

Pulling Shots on Vimeo

 

[IntelFlash]

I think 2 years ago, my friend and i were doing a research on opening a cafe.

He showed me an article somewhere before, those Synesso and Slayer is only different in their different stages of pump. It wets the grinds then does the extraction, allowing finer grinds.

Which in simple words, varying pressure during extraction for pre infusion, which can be achieved with normal machines by a trained barista. In fact, some machines all along work this way.

According to the author, the good looks did help to bring more customers, but there is no sufficient reasons to say it's a better machine.
It does help in consistency, but that don't mean you can eliminate the barista.

It will be a little more acidic as a portion of it will be under extracted at lower temperature as it builds up, fuller flavours though.
Still not everyone honestly likes it.
So it's kinda subjective whether it makes anything better, but it certainly cost too much for what it is.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

I think 2 years ago, my friend and i were doing a research on opening a cafe.

He showed me an article somewhere before, those Synesso and Slayer is only different in their different stages of pump. It wets the grinds then does the extraction, allowing finer grinds.

Which in simple words, varying pressure during extraction for pre infusion, which can be achieved with normal machines by a trained barista. In fact, some machines all along work this way.

According to the author, the good looks did help to bring more customers, but there is no sufficient reasons to say it's a better machine.
It does help in consistency, but that don't mean you can eliminate the barista.

It will be a little more acidic as a portion of it will be under extracted at lower temperature as it builds up, fuller flavours though.
Still not everyone honestly likes it.
So it's kinda subjective whether it makes anything better, but it certainly cost too much for what it is.

Interesting. The only machines I am aware that can give variable pressure control at the hands of the barista are the lever machines and "paddle" style machines aka synesso,and some KVDW machines. The e61 group head also give limited pressure control to the barista if its piped in to the water mains and this the pre infusion phase before the pump kicks in is provided by water mains line pressure. Thus can only control how long the puck is exposed to line pressure but not how much pressure its exerted on the puck during the pre infusion phases.

I agree pressure profiling is relatively new in the espresso brewing world and not much consensus on how to apply it properly to achieve the best results.

The only practical use of having a machine with variable pressure profiling I can think off is to ensure that the puck is not subjected to immediate high pressure when the water contacts the puck. Starts of slow to introduce water to the puck and allow the grinds to swell evenly and sufficiently before introducing the full pressure to extract to prevent disturbing the puck too much and uneven extraction.

Oriole in Jiak Chuan has a Mirage Idrocompresso. Looks fun to play with haha.

 

[chikyblink]

Beautiful flow from a slayer machine. And Using a Glencairn whisky nosing glass after that to nose and consume the shot! I've been using this whisky glasses for years but it never occurred to me to test it out to nose espresso.

Will try out and post experience!

Pulling Shots on Vimeo

Is this what you call a donut extraction?

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

Is this what you call a donut extraction?

Started off at the edges but not what I would call a poor extraction. while it started off at the edges but within 2 secs the drip started coming out from the centre as well. Anyway could be an effect of less pressure from the preinfusion stage. normally preinfusion ends when the 1st few drops of espresso forms and the barista will ramp up the pressure to the usual 9bar.

The tiger striping pattern on the basket and mottling you see in the cup is almost perfect. You can see the shot is a ristretto which gets more pronounced mottling compared to regular 60ml double shot espresso.

I think as long as the main bulk of the espresso extraction duration as observed from a bottomless flows even and not gushing at one corner throughout the whole extraction duration, the extraction is more or less even.

I try not to over analyse the flow when using a bottomless as honestly sometimes a seemingly less than ideal flow pattern still taste good in the cup!



Alot of the espresso making discussion online focus too much about not getting a perfect flow etc and ask for tips how to get a perfect flow etc but actually often what was not mentioned and discussed was how did the espresso taste from the supposedly poor extraction.

My guess is that alot of new users are dissatisfied with their espresso because they are too much influence by people describing their espresso/ristretto as super sweet, like syrup or honey etc etc. Another confusion is that while espresso smells sweet (try smelling dried up espresso residue from the cup) the drink itself is generally bitter. It is coffee after all. Espresso is bitter, sour, salty, savoury, umami and only very very slightly may contain some hints of sweetness (from some naturally occuring sugars still in bean) but its nothing like the sweet nectar that comes from the descriptions!

Like most predominately bitter tasting drinks (Some whiskys beer, some liquers) espresso is an acquired taste and does not have the immediate natural appeal that sugary drinks have despite the heavenly aroma.

 

[derazor]

Started off at the edges but not what I would call a poor extraction. while it started off at the edges but within 2 secs the drip started coming out from the centre as well. Anyway could be an effect of less pressure from the preinfusion stage. normally preinfusion ends when the 1st few drops of espresso forms and the barista will ramp up the pressure to the usual 9bar.

The tiger striping pattern on the basket and mottling you see in the cup is almost perfect. You can see the shot is a ristretto which gets more pronounced mottling compared to regular 60ml double shot espresso.

I think as long as the main bulk of the espresso extraction duration as observed from a bottomless flows even and not gushing at one corner throughout the whole extraction duration, the extraction is more or less even.

I try not to over analyse the flow when using a bottomless as honestly sometimes a seemingly less than ideal flow pattern still taste good in the cup!



Alot of the espresso making discussion online focus too much about not getting a perfect flow etc and ask for tips how to get a perfect flow etc but actually often what was not mentioned and discussed was how did the espresso taste from the supposedly poor extraction.

My guess is that alot of new users are dissatisfied with their espresso because they are too much influence by people describing their espresso/ristretto as super sweet, like syrup or honey etc etc. Another confusion is that while espresso smells sweet (try smelling dried up espresso residue from the cup) the drink itself is generally bitter. It is coffee after all. Espresso is bitter, sour, salty, savoury, umami and only very very slightly may contain some hints of sweetness (from some naturally occuring sugars still in bean) but its nothing like the sweet nectar that comes from the descriptions!

Like most predominately bitter tasting drinks (Some whiskys beer, some liquers) espresso is an acquired taste and does not have the immediate natural appeal that sugary drinks have despite the heavenly aroma.

I'm asking about the taste part.

Assume the extraction is within 25s to 30s.

And if one extract espresso whereby the bitterness and sourness is balanced or shall we sell within their personal taste spec. It's all good?