(GPGT)Espresso machine hoot

[prozaizxc]

Hi, I see a print of the shower screen on your puck. The print on the right of the puck is quite deep compared to the left. I see that your temp before extraction looks even from your photo. I assume the puck is the same height from the filter basket ridge after temping, but you may want to validate this. A deeper print can suggest that there are more grounds in that area (puck height higher on one side compared to the other). This leads to more restriction and lower flow on the right. Perhaps you can consider reducing your dose until you do not see a print of your shower screen on your puck.

The shower screen print doesn't look that deep though, try locking in the portafilter and taking it out pre brew to see if there's an impression. Sometimes the impression is from the backpressure when the exhaust valve is opened.

Alright I'll test that out when I make my next cup of coffee!
So if the shower screen print is not that deep what does it mean? Is it supposed to be very deep?

Actually it doesn't matter how much you distribute if you did not tamp evenly.

After tamping, check if the coffee bed is even. There's a line in your basket, check if it is parallel. The tamper you are using, should not be too long. To allow you to feel the rim of the portafilter while you are pressing to know it's even.

On the other hand, needs to look at how many ml it is coming out per second to comment further. Better still, also get a video up.

Yeah it looks mostly even to be most of the time.
I'll try to get a video up when I get a new bag of beans as my beans now are quite old alr haha

so many options available online now for mail order...

cafebond
joe curious
hook coffee
perk coffee
Alma

Which of these subscription based companies do you think I should order from? Like who roasts best in your opinion if you've tried before.
Also, are these companies better than our local cafes' beans like nylon etc?

 

[chikyblink]

Alright I'll test that out when I make my next cup of coffee!
So if the shower screen print is not that deep what does it mean? Is it supposed to be very deep?

There should not be any shower screen print on your puck. You shouldn't let your nicely prepared puck touch the screen at all.

Prepare your coffee puck and tamp it as usual. Lock it in tight and pull it out immediately. Inspect the puck.

If there is a shower screen imprint on the puck, it means you have overdosed your basket. Reduce the amount of coffee by 0.5gm and try again till there's no imprint. That is the maximum amount of coffee your basket can take. Take note dark roasted and light roasted coffee varies in height of the puck even though the weight is the same.

 

[CrazyBlue]

That was what I thought at first.

There was this video, where the creator of home barista forum actually commented and did a live taste test with somoene, which he thinks that HX creates clearer notes, HX start up faster for sure.
When i bought the BZ13 that time, tried the double boiler side by side.
The coffee done from the BZ13 taste a little brighter so bought the BZ13.
Got one guy selling Bezzera BZ13 in the previous page.

I claimed PIC for my company so also bought the Bezzera Strega, that is even better.
I ever used a 60% robusta blend, it also makes it taste pretty smooth.

Thanks.. I was advised to spend more on grinder..haha.. so I'll do abit more read up before making any purchase.

Went to book cafe, their latte that night was well done. Would love to DIY at home.

 

[CrazyBlue]

Do you drink milk drinks or espressos most of the time?

If you drink espressos mostly and are very particular about fine tuning your espresso to get the balance you want then get a double boiler or a pid controlled single boiler if you want to save up and don't make milk drinks often.

If you make milk drinks most of the time and you are not particular about your espressos then a HX is ok.

if you have the money just get a double boiler. Brew boiler should be PID controlled.

I have used a single boiler with no PID. a double boiler with pid and a lever machine which you guesstimate the temp by touching the brew group and using a inaccurate temp strip. Have played around with a hx too.

If you want convenience and want to play arond with all kinds of light and dark roasted coffee just get a pided double boiler. It will save you the trouble of guesstimating with the HX flush routine

Some people say HX taste better, more clarity, better acidity etc etc. I think this is purely anecdotal...You can achieve pretty much the same results by lowering or increasing the temp of the pid. Home barista stuff must be read with an open but cautious mind.

In pro circles people are only starting to make sense of pressure or flow profiling and how this affects the taste profile.

In comparision, temperature profiling (i.e. stable temp vs a variable temp profile) is a relative mystery at this time. What is known is that increasing temp also increases your extraction rate which increases both the extraction of bitter AND sweet AND sour solubles. But because we tend to perceive bitter chemicals more easily increase temps to high will make it seem that the coffee is bitter. But extreme acidity is also there making the coffee very unpleasant.

The key is to hit the sweet spot in temperature, particle size, extraction rate so that the taste profile is balanced and pleasant. Sweetness, acidity and controlled bitterness is in harmony.

E61 grouphead has relatively stable temps at idle and also has mechanical preinfusion (only for true e61 groups). Gentle pressure ramp up (a kind of preinfusion) helps to mitigate mistakes in distribution in tamping. Long preinfusion (low flow or low pressure) allows you to grind very fine without choking the extraction which is especially useful for light roasted coffee.

A flow restrictor (linea mini) also helps with a gradual preinfusion.

But at the end of the day just get what is within your budget after educating yourself on the options.


need to get a good grinder too.

I'm not sure if I'm particular about the espresso or not - I used to drink coffee with sugar cause it's always bad (too bitter, too sour?) until I came across good lattes then I realised.. If the standard of latte that can DIY like bookcafe or toby's estate (haven't tried sg one, only aussie), then I think i'm happy

Those lattes, and the one my friend did..is light, frothy, I think cameralish/chocolate - almost sweet tasting and not bitter, but without sugar. Can be done with some learning I suppose?

Ya I'm told to buy good grinders too..I'm not too sure what is considered a good grinder though. My friend only said, just remember, flat burrs - okay. Haha. I was thinking 2k+ with grinder previously. But if I do need to spend more on grinder than maybe save up abit first?

 

[testerjp]

You should had bought the Bezzera BZ10 with BB005, I think it's just around that price.

If you read the german forums https://www.kaffee-netz.de/, they have a good fanfare and a lot of information.

Don't want so bitter, just pick a lighter roast.
Want it richer, use a heavier dose.

 

[tyrtok]

was thinking why my latte taste "涩涩“ / "siap siap".

trying to google and sometimes those english terms are hard to understand.
came upon this site in chinese which makes it more easier to understand, at least for me.

https://isaacwmt.wordpress.com/2011/11/14/有關espresso沖煮問題/

so after cleaning my portafilter of espresso stain, the awful taste disappear already .

 

[testerjp]

Use bottomless filter holer and nothing to clean anymore.

Those Nespresso,Krups, Delonghi, Jura, Saeco or whatever automatic machines can't be cleaned throughout at all.

Imagine how dirty and how much rancid oil they get over the years

 

[chikyblink]

Agreed. There are many advantages on using a bottomless portafilter. Easy to clean and it forces you to be on point with your distribution, which benefits directly into the cup.
Unless you're making shots for a group of people, there's no reason not to use one.

Sent from Samsung SM-N910G using GAGT

 

[mirage86]

Alright, took photos of the coffee puck pre tamped tamped and post extraction! Also included a photo of my grouphead and after taking that photo, I realised that my rubber gasket may be worn out as there is a little golden color the can be seen beneath the rubber gasket. Also, I realised that at the sides of the PF drips of espresso is coming out sometimes during extraction which is why i think the gasket is worn out as well.

http://imgur.com/a/kOUUo

I distribute my grinds by tapping the side of the portafilter about 3-4 times while its filling up so that the middle and the bottom of the grounds in the PF are even and not just the top part if i tap after the whole PF is filled

PS: Idk how to upload photos so ill just leave the link to the album there

Hmm how's your extraction like? If you are dosing 17g of coffee, how fast does it take to extract 34g of espresso? Like what another forummer suggests, if you can take a video, it would be very helpful for further diagnosis.

Based on the post-extraction puck, the imprint of the screen doesn't look very obvious, but I think you should also try to lower the dose to 16g and grind finer - if your extraction is too fast.

 

[mirage86]

Thanks.. I was advised to spend more on grinder..haha.. so I'll do abit more read up before making any purchase.

Went to book cafe, their latte that night was well done. Would love to DIY at home.

I think Lazy_Tiger's post pretty much sums up the important factors for consideration. Since there's such a strong community here and most forummers have different setups, maybe you can even ask who's willing to invite you for a cup of coffee and try their machines?

And yes, don't scrimp on the grinder - it's more important than the machine itself

 

[mirage86]

Don't want so bitter, just pick a lighter roast.
Want it richer, use a heavier dose.

No offense, but this is misleading to some extent:

- Lighter roasts when over extracted will give you a very bitter cup, and darker roasts (e.g. Omotesando Koffee and 100% Arabica from JP) when extracted properly will give you a nice, balanced and creamy mouthfeel. It's all about understanding the beans and changing your brewing parameters to bring out the best of the beans.

- The dose doesn't affect the richness (or intensity).. it's the brew ratio. The smaller your ratio, the more intense the shot will be (for example, a ristretto vs an espresso).

 

[mirage86]

Alright I'll test that out when I make my next cup of coffee!
So if the shower screen print is not that deep what does it mean? Is it supposed to be very deep?

You can read more about this here: https://www.baristahustle.com/for-a-good-puck/

Quoting directly from the article: VST baskets (which I highly recommend) are taller than most. This is a good thing because it reduces the chances of your coffee grinds butting up against the shower screen. If your coffee grinds touch the shower screen, your extraction will be less even. There should be a gap between the screen and coffee grinds to allow water to flow evenly.

 

[tyrtok]

where can I get bottomless PF + single esp basket for 58mm?

how many grams are u guys using for ur single esp?

 

[testerjp]

No offense, but this is misleading to some extent:

- Lighter roasts when over extracted will give you a very bitter cup, and darker roasts (e.g. Omotesando Koffee and 100% Arabica from JP) when extracted properly will give you a nice, balanced and creamy mouthfeel. It's all about understanding the beans and changing your brewing parameters to bring out the best of the beans.

- The dose doesn't affect the richness (or intensity).. it's the brew ratio. The smaller your ratio, the more intense the shot will be (for example, a ristretto vs an espresso).

You already said, over extracted. of course bitter.

 

[testerjp]

where can I get bottomless PF + single esp basket for 58mm?

how many grams are u guys using for ur single esp?

Think it depends on your grouphead, there's different designs, get from the place who sold you the machine to be safe.

How much you use, actually depends on the roast and beans, some roasters roast so light until it's almost impossible to get something decent unless you put loads of coffee.

If it's a single basket, I'm using only 8 grams for a dark roast, and may have to extend to 11g for a light roast.
Result about 25ml.

 

[calbay]

Im using 16g in the stock silva's double basket.

16g on a 58mm stock 14g basket, should not be any issue. Done 17/18 on similar groupheads.

 

[calbay]

You can read more about this here: https://www.baristahustle.com/for-a-good-puck/

Quoting directly from the article: VST baskets (which I highly recommend) are taller than most. This is a good thing because it reduces the chances of your coffee grinds butting up against the shower screen. If your coffee grinds touch the shower screen, your extraction will be less even. There should be a gap between the screen and coffee grinds to allow water to flow evenly.

Suggest read his articles with an open mind.

 

[Qingrong]

For those interested to try their beans:

 

[Qingrong]

Anyone check them out before?

https://www.perkcoffee.sg/

 

[testerjp]

Scare all these roasters never destone properly