(GPGT)Espresso machine hoot

[tortoise18]

I have problems having crema. Even using fresh beans. But coffee machine delonghi

 

[hardwaregone]

There is some retention with single dose grinders because there will always be some grounds stuck between the burrs and exit chute. But at least there is no large grind chamber where grounds are retained until the next dose pushes it out. For designs like the EG1 there are vanes that touch the grind chamber to push out all the grinds out of the chamber into the chute. For ceado they use bellows to blow out the grinds.

You are right AC motors are generally more reliable. Cheaper too actually.

But DC motors are probably selected for grinders because of their higher starting torque (i.e. "turning power") for a compact design. This is required for designs that are low RPM... Its hard to start grinding hard beans with low RPM.

Based on my limited knowledge, DC motors also allows easier implementation for speed control....like in monolith and EG1 grinders...
AC motors requires varying the frequency of the electrical supply! e.g. 50hz-60hz....

DC motors reliability is better if you use brushless types.

High torque with lower rpm can be solved with the number of poles and starter capacitor. The starter capacitor is easy to replace and also act as a shielding imo. I was looking at some grinder schematics and I've seen it done. It's likely an ac motor can outlast even brushless DC by several times though. My bigger concern is the ac to dc converter, seen many of them damaged very quickly in many machines and appliances.

The only real advantage imo is controllable variable speed. I believe grinding at different speed will change the taste due to the amount of heat generated. Though I believe the slower the better. But that's not a feature on the niche. Quite surprise that it's not implemented as it's not difficult to integrate into the design. I believe they may upgrade it soon.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

High torque with lower rpm can be solved with the number of poles and starter capacitor. The starter capacitor is easy to replace and also act as a shielding imo. I was looking at some grinder schematics and I've seen it done. It's likely an ac motor can outlast even brushless DC by several times though. My bigger concern is the ac to dc converter, seen many of them damaged very quickly in many machines and appliances.

The only real advantage imo is controllable variable speed. I believe grinding at different speed will change the taste due to the amount of heat generated. Though I believe the slower the better. But that's not a feature on the niche. Quite surprise that it's not implemented as it's not difficult to integrate into the design. I believe they may upgrade it soon.

Speed control for low rpm grinding is more for large flat burr grinders people to play around with. To achieve more unimodal distribution. Niche I think is using large conical burr. Not sure if conical burrs can get good unimodal distribution using low rpm.

 

[pitera]

Utama Coffee is a Scam Website.

Do not buy from Utama Coffee. It's a scam.

I ordered a Baratza Sette 270W from them on 22 May and they responded to confirm the voltage of the grinder. This was from a person named Jimmy.

Two weeks later, I followed up to check on delivery status and didn't get a response for over a week. I have since filed a dispute with PayPal and awaiting the conclusion. Failing which, I will contact Amex to help dispute the charge.

Please share this!

Scams are very responsive one. Sounds dodgy, moved to japan? Just like that and don’t bother to update website?

Their shipping info also seems to be targeting USA customers. Never say anything about Singapore at all.

 

[BeanFarmer]

Hi can anyone recommend a Cheap and good coffeebean grinder with settings? I own a hario v60 and a french press . Normally i try to grind my coffee beans with a Electronic grinder (The type for spice and beans) but the beans turn out very inconsistent.

Been using this since ** started, absolutely no complaints and built like a tank. Don’t see a a need to ever upgrade for my use cases (v60, French press and aeropress)

Edit: forgot link

https://m.tb.cn/h.VpuUC2C?sm=8d3664

 

[purpleberry]

I bought one from a HK seller, then I liked it so much I wanted to buy another one, but he said he sold his last piece to me.

So I searched and came across a china seller who sold it, and bought one off him.

Both pieces came up to around slightly less than $1k landed.

However, earlier in this thread, someone told me you can email the indiegogo people and they can arrange shipping for you.

I bought 2 not because I needed to, but because I wanted to.

1) my espresso machine and pour over stations are not at the same place, and I don’t want to be grinding my beans at one spot and bringing it to another spot

2) my espresso settings are so far away from my pour over settings that they require more than 1 full turn (almost 2) which makes it a hassle to keep switching

3) I say this not for “hao lian”, but I could afford it, and hence it made sense for me to get 2 for the convenience I was getting in return

Do you have the link for the HK seller? Been waiting for the UK white zero but it looks like they are trying to sell off the black version instead.

 

[mamboeidos]

Do you have the link for the HK seller? Been waiting for the UK white zero but it looks like they are trying to sell off the black version instead.

Is u too slow... They have like 200+ units for sale... Today or yesterday sold out already. That's y left black for uk

Sent from Samsung SM-N960F using GAGT

 

[Shalomp]

very useful info. thanks for the heads up!

will think twice about the niche now

Almost wanted to buy the niche grinder.

Found out that they are made in China.

This is the inside, what a tiny motor and so much plastic.

It's using a tiny DC motor, look like my motor placed in my Tamiya car.

Something like this.
https://m.globalsources.com/DC-motor/DC-Motor-1092505022p.htm#1092505022


My experience with DC motor is they are not as lasting as AC motors. Motor itself is a problem, normally don't last as well. The second and more frequent problem is there should be a circuitry to convert AC power supply to DC with some filters to regulate the power, will be a costly PITA to fix if it's dead. Just like DC fans nowadays are not as reliable as those KDK AC fans used in the past.

The whole niche grinder with its chassis only weigh about 4kg! A mazzer kony with similar 63mm conical burrs weights about 20kg. Can you imagine how much plastic inside and outside is in the niche?

 

[YouHeypiCanLiao]

btw do you guys use Pallo

https://www.highlandercoffee.com/product/pallo-coffee-tool-black/

the refills quite expensive. should I get the refills or is there a cheaper alternative?

 

[Bastos80]

very useful info. thanks for the heads up!

will think twice about the niche now

I am a Niche user, would disagree with this. Allow me to share my 2 cents.

My personnal experience includes a Niche Zero (bought Q3 2019) Rancilio Rocky (at home too, 10+ y.o.) and an EK43 (while working in a coffee).

"Made in China" is a misleading allegation; iPhones are made in China, Decent Espresso is made in China, and most of the rest is. It's the factory of the world, you can find the best and the worst. Just like USA...

Lifelong products;
Rocky and EK43 are amazing and built like Rock. For sure they can live many lifes including in professional environment! Of course, Niche is yet to prove its lasting life. But from all coffee enthusiast community, nobody has reported major issues since Indiegogo campaign start.

Pros & Cons
But for home... Rocky's downfall is the step grinding and its crazy retention.
EK43 will STALL occasionnally if you feed beans before starting. And that crazy static...
Niche, for few times/day uses, is just great! and close to no competition in this price range.
I was considering Sette 270Wi for its ease of use, but noise and reliability bad reputation of the first series set me off.

Possible improvement of the Niche with speed control;
I believe it sounds good for advanced users, yet this will bring issues on the product usage and reliability. At low speed, motor will struggle to deal with lighter roasts. I believe Niche team studied their product well and set it in accordance with motor spec to ensure best reliability. Their reputation as a new company is always a sensitive topic...

 

[Shalomp]

its not just the made in china badge

a lot of other valid points were raised especially its internals

anyway at such a price point, i would have expected it be made elsewhere

I am a Niche user, would disagree with this. Allow me to share my 2 cents.

My personnal experience includes a Niche Zero (bought Q3 2019) Rancilio Rocky (at home too, 10+ y.o.) and an EK43 (while working in a coffee).

"Made in China" is a misleading allegation; iPhones are made in China, Decent Espresso is made in China, and most of the rest is. It's the factory of the world, you can find the best and the worst. Just like USA...

Lifelong products;
Rocky and EK43 are amazing and built like Rock. For sure they can live many lifes including in professional environment! Of course, Niche is yet to prove its lasting life. But from all coffee enthusiast community, nobody has reported major issues since Indiegogo campaign start.

Pros & Cons
But for home... Rocky's downfall is the step grinding and its crazy retention.
EK43 will STALL occasionnally if you feed beans before starting. And that crazy static...
Niche, for few times/day uses, is just great! and close to no competition in this price range.
I was considering Sette 270Wi for its ease of use, but noise and reliability bad reputation of the first series set me off.

Possible improvement of the Niche with speed control;
I believe it sounds good for advanced users, yet this will bring issues on the product usage and reliability. At low speed, motor will struggle to deal with lighter roasts. I believe Niche team studied their product well and set it in accordance with motor spec to ensure best reliability. Their reputation as a new company is always a sensitive topic...

 

[chikyblink]

Alright, let me break down all the grinders which have the same features as the Niche.
The criteria are:
* Titan class burrs (flats >=70mm, conicals >=60mm)
* Must be electric powered, no hand grinding
* Single dosing, no bean hoppers

1)Versalab M4
Combination of conical and flat burrs, total grinding path equivalent to a 96mm flat burrs.
Basic model starts at $2970usd

2)KafaTek Monolith
71mm conical - $1950usd
75mm flat - $2450usd

3)Lynn Weber Workshops EG-1
80mm flat - $4945usd

4)Ceado E37SD
83mm flat - $2400usd

5)Niche Zero
63mm conical - $600+usd

That's all the grinders I can think of. Let me know if I've missed out any.
As you can see, the Niche easily costs 3 or 4 times lesser than its competitors with the same features. With the price so low, of course it is gonna be made in China.
I don't own 1 yet but there's no denying it is great value for the money.

 

[wahjohreno]

I came from bigger and more expensive grinders before settling on the Niche. In fact I ordered my second one on the day I received my first one, right after I used it for the first time.

For my usage, workflow, home decor and counter space, it simply has the right balance of grind quality, size and looks. At any price. I was going to order the Ceado if the Niche didn’t work out.

Not only does it have at least as good grind quality as my more expensive grinders, the workflow is perfect. I put in 30g, I get 30g out 80% of the time, and 29.9g 20% of the time. No whacking required whatsoever. All that costing less than half of my other grinders and looking far more appropriate in my home. My counter tops have so much more space now.

Yes reliability remains to be seen. After more than a year, it has zero (pun intended) signs of wear. And even if it breaks down within the next year, which is highly unlikely, at this price point, I’d simply buy another one.

The Niche Zero’s value lies not within it’s individual parts, but in the sum of its parts derived from a very specific objective.

It’s made to be a coffee grinder capable of consistent high quality grinds, with a single dosing workflow, with close to zero grounds retention, in a package size and capacity that is appropriate in a home setting.

If you value those attributes, the Niche Zero is for you.

If you value the absolute highest quality of the internal components over all else, there are other far bigger and more expensive options.

 

[compuser]

The choice to cheapen the niche grinder and have them made in China was a decision made recently.

I think the hg one is a better buy for that kind of money.
It is still 3x heavier than the niche despite having no motor. So much more solid and almost unbreakable. Reliability itself is a big virtue. Why must a user blindly follow certain criterias to believe what is a good grinder.

The niche grinder do look dangerous to use. There's no finger protector and the burrs are easy to reach. According to reviews, it still retains up to 0.7g of coffee anyway.

If a user one day prefers convenience or for whatever reason, do not want to do single dosing but fill his hopper with beans and use the grinder's timer to dose automatically. The niche do not have the flexibility to allow such usage at all.

 

[wahjohreno]

The choice to cheapen the niche grinder and have them made in China was a decision made recently.

I think the hg one is a better buy for that kind of money.
It is still 3x heavier than the niche despite having no motor. So much more solid and almost unbreakable. Reliability itself is a big virtue. Why must a user blindly follow certain criterias to believe what is a good grinder.

The niche grinder do look dangerous to use. There's no finger protector and the burrs are easy to reach. According to reviews, it still retains up to 0.7g of coffee anyway.

If a user one day prefers convenience or for whatever reason, do not want to do single dosing but fill his hopper with beans and use the grinder's timer to dose automatically. The niche do not have the flexibility to allow such usage at all.

The motor will not start as long as the lid is even 1mm ajar. You need to go out of your way to modify the machine to bypass that sensor.

HG One is a hand grinder at US$964

Niche Zero is a motorized grinder at S$964.

According to reviews it has 0.7g retention. According to my > 1 year of daily use, it has maximum 0.1g difference from what I put into the grinder. Regardless of what reviews say, it’s pretty damn good enough for me, especially compared with what I had to deal with with other grinders.

A user does not “blindly follow certain criteria”. A user after decades of use, goes through different phases in their coffee journey, different phases in financial ability, different phases in available counter space, different phases in the level of self-indulgence (single vs family man)..., develops a set of criteria when choosing a grinder, distilled down from experience and requirements.

Like I said, the Niche Zero is a very specific machine for a very specific demographic. People who appreciate it will recognize it immediately. People who don’t simply have different needs. Nothing wrong with either group.

For someone looking at a grinder that’s affordable, has a titan burr set, single dose only, has close to no retention and is not commercial cafe sized, it’s peerless. That someone knows he will not want the ability to pour a whole bag of beans into a hopper.

For me, it beats my Anfim Scody 2/Compak K3/Mazzer Kony hands down in my home environment. Taste-wise, it equals my Anfim and I prefer it to my Compak/Mazzer.

If any one of my 2 Niche Zeros break down tomorrow, I will buy it again immediately. That’s the kind of value it gives me.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

Alright, let me break down all the grinders which have the same features as the Niche.
The criteria are:
* Titan class burrs (flats >=70mm, conicals >=60mm)
* Must be electric powered, no hand grinding
* Single dosing, no bean hoppers

1)Versalab M4
Combination of conical and flat burrs, total grinding path equivalent to a 96mm flat burrs.
Basic model starts at $2970usd

2)KafaTek Monolith
71mm conical - $1950usd
75mm flat - $2450usd

3)Lynn Weber Workshops EG-1
80mm flat - $4945usd

4)Ceado E37SD
83mm flat - $2400usd

5)Niche Zero
63mm conical - $600+usd

That's all the grinders I can think of. Let me know if I've missed out any.
As you can see, the Niche easily costs 3 or 4 times lesser than its competitors with the same features. With the price so low, of course it is gonna be made in China.
I don't own 1 yet but there's no denying it is great value for the money.

I think my EG-1 is made in Taiwan. So yeah.....made in where doesn't always mean poor quality.....

Made in USA also can be misleading.....motor made in china, burrs made in italy or korea...electronics made in taiwan... Only assembled in USA...

Whats more important is good design and appropriate selection and sourcing of parts, good workmanship in assembly and QC....

For all we know the motor for the niche is overspeced for its intended usage i.e. high MTBF.... unlikely to breakdown... despite appearing to be small....

has there been many reports of failure for the niche? it has been out for quite time time. so if not many users reporting premature failure then i guess its ok....

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

btw do you guys use Pallo

https://www.highlandercoffee.com/product/pallo-coffee-tool-black/

the refills quite expensive. should I get the refills or is there a cheaper alternative?

I just use a cloth nowadays..less abrasive than a brush on coated shower screens. able to get between the portafilter lugs to the gasket to give a nice wipe down without abrasive scrubbing.

 

[chikyblink]

I think the hg one is a better buy for that kind of money.

The HG One costs $965usd, which is obviously not in the same price range as the Niche. Also, hand grinding vs electric.
Show me an electric single dose grinder for around $650usd, you can't because there's none.

The niche grinder do look dangerous to use. There's no finger protector and the burrs are easy to reach.

If you've seen/read reviews, you would known the top lid acts as a protection against such things. Whenever the lid is open, the electric circuit cuts off, and the grinder will not turn on whatsoever.

If a user one day prefers convenience or for whatever reason, do not want to do single dosing but fill his hopper with beans and use the grinder's timer to dose automatically. The niche do not have the flexibility to allow such usage at all.

Again, show me a grinder which is designed to do both. There are none.
Hopper dose grinders for home use are not practical at all. Ppl usually buy cheap hopper dosing grinders and try ways to single dose with them. Which means purging old grounds with 4-5 beans each time, or using a tool/brush to dig out the grounds, etc.
You might say hopper dosing is faster if you're making 3-4 drinks consecutively. But in reality for the Niche, while you're preparing the puck for your 1st shot, your 2nd shot is already grind-ed in the cup waiting for you.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

You might say hopper dosing is faster if you're making 3-4 drinks consecutively. But in reality for the Niche, while you're preparing the puck for your 1st shot, your 2nd shot is already grind-ed in the cup waiting for you.

Agree.. for home user it doesn't make sense to fill a hopper with beans. Unless you are entertaining 10 guests who are all asking for lattes at the same time and expect you bang out the drinks as fast as a barista from % Arabica Kyoto Arashiyama! In any case the bottle neck is the single group home machine...

Pre-weighing 10 doses before executing the routine on a single dose grinder for 10 drinks makes more sense for these kind of unlikely scenarios.

 

[Vitacimin]

I think my EG-1 is made in Taiwan. So yeah.....made in where doesn't always mean poor quality.....

Made in USA also can be misleading.....motor made in china, burrs made in italy or korea...electronics made in taiwan... Only assembled in USA...

Whats more important is good design and appropriate selection and sourcing of parts, good workmanship in assembly and QC....

For all we know the motor for the niche is overspeced for its intended usage i.e. high MTBF.... unlikely to breakdown... despite appearing to be small....

has there been many reports of failure for the niche? it has been out for quite time time. so if not many users reporting premature failure then i guess its ok....

Do you operate a cafe?