(GPGT)Espresso machine hoot

[IntelFlash]

@intelflash

just curious, do you take your espresso with sugar? Because its a known fact that Italians drink their espressos with sugar. And I've always wondered why. Could it be the blends they're using and adding sugar somehow brings out more flavours?

And if you trace back to espresso history, you'll find that Italians drink espresso out of necessity. Something like an energy drink to perk them up before they go to work.

I don't take with Sugar.

Actually i don't see alot of them taking with sugar but i did saw this guy who added 2-3 packs of sugar to a tiny ristretto. like 1:1 ratio.
If you order cappuccino, they ask you at the counter and add for you before they add the milk. Which i heard is the correct way.

Inside the cafes, it's like wall street. Things move very fast.
Once they step out of cafes, their actions like slowmo at 1/10 speed.


Espresso wise, it's mellow and round.
You can drink many cups without feeling awful.
And there's a a sweet aftertaste that lingers for hours.
Got the sourness, bitterness and the notes standing out in balance.
Very pleasantly weird.

Even if there's Robusta, it's not overly bitter.
Compare to some local cafes in SG.
Tell me pure arabica, but taste like 60% robusta.
Don't know is it the barista fail, machine fail or the coffee fail.

Anyway espresso or ristretto is not meant to quench your thirst mah.
Want to quench your thirst. 25ml where got enough? haha

 

[chikyblink]

Can support?
Freshly Roasted Coffee | Product Categories | Blendnew Coffee

Interesting. I've sent them an email asking about their roast date and if it goes well, maybe we can order together to save shipping costs.

I only see single origins though. No blends.

 

[IntelFlash]

From what I understand, Italy's palate for coffee is very different from the rest of the world. Taste wise it tends to be very dark and more on the overextracted end of things I find, not what you would consider a "good" espresso. But they are very efficient in their workflow. They tend to chuck in a lot of robustas as well for the thick crema, which might explain why it looks that way. La Marzocco is trying to change the way coffee is like in Italy and they're taking the opportunity in WBC 2014 to do so since it's held in Italy this year.

Robusta gives the pronounce bitter notes, body and long after taste. It's an enhancer, not a filler.
Of course if anyone put more enhancer than the main dish, it's also weird. Not sure how much the IT put though.


According to Specialty Coffee Association of America, which organise these WBC. The Fundamentals of Espresso

Espresso is a 45ml (1.5 ounces) beverage that is prepared from 7-9 grams of coffee through which clean water of 192¡ - 198¡ F (88¡ - 92¡ C) has been forced at 9-10 atmospheres of pressure, where the grind of the coffee has made the brewing "flow"* time approximately 22-28 seconds. While brewing, the flow of Espresso will appear to have the viscosity of warm honey and the resulting beverage will exhibit a thick dark gold cream foam ("crema") topping. Espresso is usually prepared specifically for, and immediately served to its intended consumer.

It's actually the same standard as Italy.

Of course, everyone is going off the parameters nowadays, including the champions they crown *clown.

 

[IntelFlash]

I'm trying the 18-20 grammes now.

Single basket, cannot flow.
Double basket, nice flow.

Very thick like jam, abit burnt.

Don't know should config my pressure or grind.
I think i can only try one cup of this a day.

I feel very nauseous if i drink too much

 

[n0d3]

Robusta gives the pronounce bitter notes, body and long after taste. It's an enhancer, not a filler.
Of course if anyone put more enhancer than the main dish, it's also weird. Not sure how much the IT put though.


According to Specialty Coffee Association of America, which organise these WBC. The Fundamentals of Espresso

Espresso is a 45ml (1.5 ounces) beverage that is prepared from 7-9 grams of coffee through which clean water of 192¡ - 198¡ F (88¡ - 92¡ C) has been forced at 9-10 atmospheres of pressure, where the grind of the coffee has made the brewing "flow"* time approximately 22-28 seconds. While brewing, the flow of Espresso will appear to have the viscosity of warm honey and the resulting beverage will exhibit a thick dark gold cream foam ("crema") topping. Espresso is usually prepared specifically for, and immediately served to its intended consumer.

It's actually the same standard as Italy.

Of course, everyone is going off the parameters nowadays, including the champions they crown *clown.

I think you misunderstood me, I'm not talking about differing standards, I'm talking about taste/blends. What I was implying was that it's used in the wrong proportions that you get a really skewed taste.

So what I was trying to say was, Italy as a culture has not progressed as much as the rest of the world in terms of TASTE, ironic since it's the birthplace of espresso. Even Singapore has a different palate, give anyone a single origin Kochere espresso and they'll tell you it's too "sour" (and no I'm not implying SOs are better than blends or vice versa). The so called "third wave" of coffee has progressed such that the industry has embraced coffee that doesn't taste like coffee, focusing on other elements of taste such as acidity, floral notes and so on. It's more than just a commodity now. Give that to most Italians and they'll tell you it's blasphemy and underextracted.

And I beg to differ, WBC champs (sure many of them have sold themselves to commercialisation and the industry etc.) in their search for a better drink, have went through a lot of research into the drink, from origin to cup and helped many in the industry to better understand coffee. Just read Matt Perger's website, particularly that on the recent EK43 (which is now the fad, for all the wrong reasons) -> Matt Perger

 

[chikyblink]

If I recall correctly The vst was designed to get same yield and total dissolved solids in the same grind setting for all the different sized filter baskets. I find with the 15 and 18g basket no need to change the setting. But for 22g I need to grind coarser. Generally for the 22g basket I grind half a marking coarser. But ultimately it all depends on what blend I use and I change very frequently so its more by looking at the flow and tasting rather setting predesignated markers on the grinder collar.

You are using a vst too right? They have a FAQ here that gives a guideline how to tune your grinder and pump pressure to get the acceptable yield

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0092/7622/files/VST_Filter_FAQ.pdf?138

Wow, a dosage difference of 3gm and it yields the same output? Very interesting. I have only the 18gm though, so I can't test it out myself.

Thanks for the link. Never knew there's a manual on VST baskets.
It talks about adjusting brew pressure. Have you tried it? Not sure I wanna mess with the settings.
Also talks about tamper base sizes. Are you using the correct 58.4mm tamper? I'm pretty sure mine's not.

 

[chikyblink]

I'm trying the 18-20 grammes now.

Single basket, cannot flow.
Double basket, nice flow.

Very thick like jam, abit burnt.

Don't know should config my pressure or grind.
I think i can only try one cup of this a day.

I feel very nauseous if i drink too much

Holy sh*t, 18gm on a single basket? Did you manage to get all of the grounds in?

 

[derazor]

Interesting. I've sent them an email asking about their roast date and if it goes well, maybe we can order together to save shipping costs.

I only see single origins though. No blends.

Specialty like more IN now rite?

Jogged my memory, I think it belongs to AlanTeo69, he posted a few times here

 

[derazor]

Guys, if I'm using the stocked Basket from Rancilio, my backside is itchy. Is there a requirement to "upgrade" to VST since I've just stepped in to the espresso world.

Is the taste difference heaven and hell?

in Hifi sense, is it like changing from a stock tube to a NOS tube?

 

[chikyblink]

Anyway espresso or ristretto is not meant to quench your thirst mah.
Want to quench your thirst. 25ml where got enough? haha

Err...Ok...what I meant by 'drinking out of necessity' is that the Italians during a period of time drink espresso because they needed to. They don't view it as a gourmet drink that they can savour the different notes in it.
I didn't say anything about it being a thirst quencher. I said it's a energy booster.

 

[n0d3]

Wow, a dosage difference of 3gm and it yields the same output? Very interesting. I have only the 18gm though, so I can't test it out myself.

Thanks for the link. Never knew there's a manual on VST baskets.
It talks about adjusting brew pressure. Have you tried it? Not sure I wanna mess with the settings.
Also talks about tamper base sizes. Are you using the correct 58.4mm tamper? I'm pretty sure mine's not.

Hey, I think it's best to just stick with your basic dose, grind size and extraction time. I wouldn't suggest adjusting temperature or brew pressure at this stage, especially with a domestic machine (unless of course it's way off). You can get a pretty decent cup without messing around with those variables!

In my opinion, at the end of the day whichever method/grinder/bean/machine/variable you use, it can look like a crappy extraction but if it tastes good to you then by all means stick to it until you discover something that makes it better. But of course I suggest exploring a bit and trying other types of coffee etc. Might want to try Speakeasy by Liberty Coffee, Terence knows his stuff and the way it's made tastes like how most people would think coffee is like (heavy body, chocolatey, nutty) so if that's what you're after it's pretty nice to drink. His usual parameters is 18g pulled as a double ristretto, cuts through the milk pretty nicely. You can head down to Assembly at Evans Lodge to give it a go, Daphne uses the blend and does a good job of getting it right.

VST is right about the 58.4, I have a 58 and based on experience (and it's on the FAQ as well), it does a bit of grounds on the edges.

 

[chikyblink]

Specialty like more IN now rite?

Jogged my memory, I think it belongs to AlanTeo69, he posted a few times here

Ok I just got a return email from them. They roast-on-demand. Beans reach your house 2-4 days from roast. Anybody up for it?

 

[n0d3]

Guys, if I'm using the stocked Basket from Rancilio, my backside is itchy. Is there a requirement to "upgrade" to VST since I've just stepped in to the espresso world.

Is the taste difference heaven and hell?

in Hifi sense, is it like changing from a stock tube to a NOS tube?

I would suggest sticking to the stock basket and "levelling up" before changing to a VST. In my opinion, VST because of the sheer number of holes there are, you require a really good distribution technique compared to regular baskets in order to make use of it. (Read this guy's experience to understand what I mean CoffeeGeek - Can These Filters Change the World of Espresso?) Don't be caught up with the gear masturbation, a stock Silvia can give you a pretty good espresso without all the fancy PID, Motta milk jugs, 4 hole steam tips etc.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

I think you missed my point, but then it's ok. haha

BTW why 7 grammes can't make ristretto?

The ristretto I make are double ristrettos. 15 ml x 2. Did I say 7g cannot make a single ristretto? No I did not. 10 grams can also make a single ristretto, 4 grams can also make a ristretto. But I don't because I don't like the taste. An 18g double ristretto is what I like.

So....care to enlighten me what was your point exactly?

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

I'm trying the 18-20 grammes now.

Single basket, cannot flow.
Double basket, nice flow.

Very thick like jam, abit burnt.

Don't know should config my pressure or grind.
I think i can only try one cup of this a day.

I feel very nauseous if i drink too much

Of course single basket cannot flow..........how did u even manage to fit 18 g in a single basket?

If it's burnt then reduce the the brewing temperature. Pressure no need to config. Adjust your grind.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

Wow, a dosage difference of 3gm and it yields the same output? Very interesting. I have only the 18gm though, so I can't test it out myself.

Thanks for the link. Never knew there's a manual on VST baskets.
It talks about adjusting brew pressure. Have you tried it? Not sure I wanna mess with the settings.
Also talks about tamper base sizes. Are you using the correct 58.4mm tamper? I'm pretty sure mine's not.

My tamper is the stock 58mm espro haha. That's why I do NSEW tamp. Not a perfect technique but I too heart ache to spend on another tamper for the tiny difference.

Have not tried measuring brew pressure cos I don't have a scace II haha too ex. But anyway if I remember correctly the vbm rotary pump will give out 8.5 bar of pressure at the group when e brew pressure gauge reads 9 bar. Mine is tuned to 8.5 bar preinfusion and 9 bar brewing pressure at the brewing gauge.

I can't replicate the result with the same extraction time with the 22g basket unless I adjust the grinder maybe because my technique is not good enough or maybe the machine pressure is not tuned ideally or maybe......vst claim just not that accurate.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

Hey, I think it's best to just stick with your basic dose, grind size and extraction time. I wouldn't suggest adjusting temperature or brew pressure at this stage, especially with a domestic machine (unless of course it's way off). You can get a pretty decent cup without messing around with those variables!

In my opinion, at the end of the day whichever method/grinder/bean/machine/variable you use, it can look like a crappy extraction but if it tastes good to you then by all means stick to it until you discover something that makes it better. But of course I suggest exploring a bit and trying other types of coffee etc. Might want to try Speakeasy by Liberty Coffee, Terence knows his stuff and the way it's made tastes like how most people would think coffee is like (heavy body, chocolatey, nutty) so if that's what you're after it's pretty nice to drink. His usual parameters is 18g pulled as a double ristretto, cuts through the milk pretty nicely. You can head down to Assembly at Evans Lodge to give it a go, Daphne uses the blend and does a good job of getting it right.

VST is right about the 58.4, I have a 58 and based on experience (and it's on the FAQ as well), it does a bit of grounds on the edges.

I agree don't get the vst yet. For rancilio Silvia stock basket I use 14g because the top of the puck will scrape into the shower screen when locking in if use an up dose.

Hmmmm.....But actually it's not that ex. Can try also lah see how's your cup. Can keep the vst when u intend to upgrade your Silvia too.

I would recommend changing to a higher vst when u want to experiment with updosing.

 

[aicaramba]

Hi, sorry for hijacking this thread. just thought there's lots of coffee lovers watching this thread.

I have a rare rancilio s27 to sell. drop me a msg if you are interested.

Thanks

 

[EatSnakeWarrior]

Hi, sorry for hijacking this thread. just thought there's lots of coffee lovers watching this thread.

I have a rare rancilio s27 to sell. drop me a msg if you are interested.

Thanks

Asking price?

 

[derazor]

Ok I just got a return email from them. They roast-on-demand. Beans reach your house 2-4 days from roast. Anybody up for it?

Min purchase is $50. At least 4 packs, how to collect? I think most of us will take at most 1 pack