(GPGT)Espresso machine hoot

[rosli8079]

Try iTunes travel channel only has clips.
Worst case torrent. Search dangerous grounds. It's season 2 now.
I just DVR them since I don't have time to watch them .

If I am lucky Monday I have 2 diff black cat coming in. Got a friend to help me buy.

Which episode n season is that?

I found on itune and youtube but need to pay sia!

I cannot find the full bukit timah lane to full season 1

 

[rosli8079]

BTW to that guy looking for a machine.

I find those control knobs for the steam/water wands, in joystick form pushing up or down.
Is better to use than those need to turn to on.

Mine is the stupid turn the tap

BTW, i'm using Alex Duetto, a ** db.

 

[patryn33]

Which episode n season is that?

I found on itune and youtube but need to pay sia!

I cannot find the full bukit timah lane to full season 1

Oh... U looking for free ones. I thought just where to find it
Try bt

Or
http://www.sidereel.com/dangerous_grounds/season-2/episode-8

 

[Akai Ryu]

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

BTW to that guy looking for a machine.

I find those control knobs for the steam/water wands, in joystick form pushing up or down.
Is better to use than those need to turn to on.

Mine is the stupid turn the tap

BTW, i'm using Alex Duetto, a ** db.

That's why not all machines are the same. Joystick switch is more expensive then the compression valves...

 

[IntelFlash]

FHA's admission ticket is $80!
How many days access if i pay for the ticket?

I think not worth the money to go in just to see which to buy.
I'll rather watch the demo on youtube.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

Wah you really hard sell.

DB still need to remove water stucked at channelling points la. You got read or not?

The pid don't control every single part of the boiler, to the pipes and to the grouphead. You will still need flush the trapped water idling in between. This is infact necessary for any coffee machines.

As i said, a hx machine will automatically run within a range of optimal temperature, so please don't over exaggerate that it will "overheat", as well say the machine melt.

Flushing is nothing more than on pull down the lever and let water run a few seconds, which is still applicable for ANY DB expensive or cheap. And it's not a difficult but can be a pleasurable task.
Flushing also helps keep the grouphead clean
In fact if you talk about back to back fast, you need to heat your portafilter and the best way is to flush water on it to heat up fast, so flushing is neccssary and always recommended for any case.


Only R58 has rotary pump and plump in?
I tink almost every brand outside has such options and rotary pumps though last longer , they will die easily on empty tanks and cost more to replace. So plump in is neccesary and plump in is not for everybody.

Don't put all the gimmicks that R58 is a much more superior machine.
The functions all works the same and please don't exaggerate there's really additional features or significant advantages.
They work the same and brew the same with little differences. There are thousands of good reviews on cheaper brands that are proving them as excellent.

For someone looking for a value for money solution which you properly missed reading, he can save half the money with just a HX and does a coffee that can be as good as from a cafe. With practise, he can solves all the temperature tiny issues. Most cafes are still using HX from what i read somewhere.


Anyway end of story.
Your coffee source is like ****, it's still ****

So it doesn't matter how nice your coffee machine looks or how much money you spent on it.

If i have a high budget, i will rather save the money on a cheap machine and buy a roaster and good greens.

I can 100% confirm it makes you better coffee than you spending 2x on the machine. (of cux you mush roast and source adequately)

As the buyer already stated and you had again missed out reading, he wants a milk drink for his spouse, single boiler is almost totally out unless he really has a lot of time to waste.

Good night again!

Yes the pid doesn't control the whole brew group that's why u have an offset. Don't be confused I'm only taking about a cooling flush here. If u flush too much then u will still drop the boiler temp whether pid or not. Cooling flush for hx is to clear the super hot water from the hx to get the proper temp. For db there is no need for a cooling flush.....if your machine is properly tuned to idle at the correct temp and your group head thermosyphon is tune properly not to over heat. Anyway not all pids implemented in the same way.....some use only 1 point contact. Some use up to 5 point contact to get a more stable average temp.......so like I said if you examine the machines carefully u can see where your money goes to

Anyway if u find flushing a visually pleasurable task then I have concerns about your mental well being like a cat

R58 or any similar class machines for that matter are not better or worse but some are more expensive then the others for a reason....buyer has to decide whether he wants to pay for those reasons. Whether rotary or vibratory pump is depends on whether the buyer needs them.

U however are jusf advising him to get the cheapest and be done with it.....not so simple. Must compare point to point and examine the machine inc then internal layout. Like want I said they are not hither same thing.

If on tight budge I recommend hx but if you have cash to spare then a db has more flexibility for the user..... It doesn't necessary make better coffee..

Roasting is not for everyone. I get fresh beans fairly easily. I wanted to get into Roasting but after doing some research is quite a technical skill and also a difficult art to master. very easy to screw up. It's also time consuming and home roasting machines spoil quite easily and are simply inadequate if u want a good level of precision for the roast.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

FHA's admission ticket is $80!
How many days access if i pay for the ticket?

I think not worth the money to go in just to see which to buy.
I'll rather watch the demo on youtube.

So ex?! Can bring family and watch movie leh. Not worth it if it's not free. I thought it's like it fair or what.

 

[chikyblink]

BTW to that guy looking for a machine.

I find those control knobs for the steam/water wands, in joystick form pushing up or down.
Is better to use than those need to turn to on.

Mine is the stupid turn the tap

BTW, i'm using Alex Duetto, a ** db.

Lol why the hate on your machine?

I too appreciate the joystick steamwand. For steaming milk, its either off or full blast, there's no in between.

 

[derazor]

btw you guys talk like my Ms Silvia like no value liao LOL....

BTW I notice that my PID before pull is 105C but it will go down/fluctuate as I'm pulling. Normal?

Is it the same as HX or DB? Or they are dead center and unmoved at the pre-set temp?

Also for Ms Silvia, prefer to pull then steam or vice versa?

Thanks

 

[chikyblink]

btw you guys talk like my Ms Silvia like no value liao LOL....

BTW I notice that my PID before pull is 105C but it will go down/fluctuate as I'm pulling. Normal?

Is it the same as HX or DB? Or they are dead center and unmoved at the pre-set temp?

Also for Ms Silvia, prefer to pull then steam or vice versa?

Thanks

Sounds like you're not flushing the grouphead. Are you pulling all your shots at ard 100°C?

I dunno abt DB but my HX idles at 97°C if left alone for 10-15mins. Once I pulled the lever, it goes up to abt 101°C for a few secs then drops down abt 1°C per second. I usually stop flushing at 95°C, then lock and pull my shot immediately.

For single boilers like Silvia, I think its better to steam 1st, then pull your shot. Its faster to cool down to brew temperature by flushing than to wait for the boiler to heat up to steam temperature.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

btw you guys talk like my Ms Silvia like no value liao LOL....

BTW I notice that my PID before pull is 105C but it will go down/fluctuate as I'm pulling. Normal?

Is it the same as HX or DB? Or they are dead center and unmoved at the pre-set temp?

Also for Ms Silvia, prefer to pull then steam or vice versa?

Thanks

Silvia is a very decent machine..even now once in a while i make shots from my silvia. The taste is different. Not better or worse but different. I would say maybe more fruity. Somemore mine is without a PID unlike yours. Modded silvia is definately value for money esp if you drink espresso exclusively and only make milk drinks occasionally.

I was supposed to sell my silvia but colleague backed out on the deal. Maybe I'll just mod mine with a pid and keep it.

My DD sometimes will fluctuate when making shots. about 1 degree. but sometimes the pid temp won't tell the whole story. Someone tested the grouphead temp with a infrared temperature gun and a draft or breeze can actually lower the e61 temp by one degree or so.

for my non-pid silvia i brew then i steam because if i do it vice versa i'm not sure whether the temperature surfing time will be the same.

have you tried using the vst baskets?

 

[blues7]

Very informative

really no time, resource or space for whatever described here

Coffee machines are sophisticated gadgets

Thus, happy to have nespresso

Something simple to operate and maintain

Also, not heavy user anyway, just the occasionally drink for a perk with family

 

[calbay]

HX and DB are pretty different.

HX brew at varying temperature.
It goes from high to low in a curve.
It has a resembling effect like varying pressure on lever machines. The portions that got brewed at higher temperature/pressure, more bitter.

Coffee beans are the seeds of a cherry and this cherry has its own taste profiles. As the pressure/temp goes lower, it extracts the aroma of the cherry, this is where you can taste the real full profiles of the coffee.
This of course means there's more clarity, complexity and brighter notes, as well as enjoying the smoky, bitter , woody notes from the higher pressure/temp.

I think I mentioned somewhere before, the barista has the flexibility to craft different profiles with a HX. That's true as a skilful barista can choose how much portion extracted at the low/high temp.
The question is how can the barista be consistent in controlling the temperature? Actually once you flush, from the smoke released, you will roughly know how long your machine idled and how much to flush. The more smoke, the longer to flush to cool. A grouphead thermometer can help if you are new. In present day HX, they had already reduced the overheating by placing a thermostat at the grouphead or redesign the architecture.

The flushing routine in HX is also good for heating cups quickly, as heating from the cup warmer is normally too slow or ineffective.

DB brew at a flat temp.
I will say you still need to flush some water off but lesser.
There's more parts though, and probability of breaking down is of course higher.
The advantage is the user can easier extract at different temperature more constantly. It is good for a new user who has problem identifying how much to flush and cool.
Take it like an auto gearing system while HXs are manual.

The big BUT is it won't have much diversity in the aroma as it's all done at the same temperature. When you extract at a certain pressure, the profile is only from what you get from that pressure, it can be flat or overly fruity depending on what temp you set. This is why they introduced pressure profiling, which are not affordable nor widely available for homes yet. Some DBs have a boil boiler smaller than the steam boiler. Some same size. Both have their pro and cons depending on scenarios. Of course, those with smaller boilers are usually cheaper since copper is not a cheap.

Last there's the lever machines.
A lever machines brew at varying pressure from high to low.
If it's on HX, there's also a varying temperature.
Thus this is why it's very popular among seasoned baristas and many cafes in Italy. As it's a master machine that creates the most clarity and diversity.
Consistency might be a problem here, so that's why manufacturers introduced some "automations" like spring assist and include a pump to fill the chamber.
If i like to explore all the full flavours of the coffee, i will take it from a Lever.

Other affecting factors, are the drinker's preference and the choice of beans, which will be another long chapter of information. There are users who can tell you that their best coffee is something he made flat, and we still have to have respect that. Or some beans, won't matter much to the user whether it's done with varying pressure/temperature. Many times the user is already used to oxidised beans, so they are not demanding on clarity since they haven't been much exposed to them in the first place.

As for difference between expensive or cheaper brands.
There won't be significant differences in present days.
Maybe there were major difference when they were all at version 1, 5-10 years ago. But most makers had revised and improve their models again and again, till they are fairly similar.

Hope it helps.

 

[IntelFlash]

Anyone knows the Food Hotel Asia ticket $80 is for 1 day or can access all the days?

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

Anyone knows the Food Hotel Asia ticket $80 is for 1 day or can access all the days?

Seems the expo is only open to related trade professionals

need to present your name card for entry...

 

[IntelFlash]

Hiya fug this stupid show.
Not going.

 

[derazor]

after reading a lot of explanations, I felt espresso making really like hifi. Maybe not as bad as how much can a machine costs at home is limited to a certain amount. For hifi a pc of cable can be more ex than a machine.

Also, taste is subjective some like this some like that, same as hifi, some like more bass some like more high frequency.

If some ppl like cafe latte, just get an OK machine and make sure can froth the milk properly can liao, no need to get expensive single origins.

I kinda "hate" it when art-y type of complications come into play, is it some snake oil or what?

My 2 cts....

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

after reading a lot of explanations, I felt espresso making really like hifi. Maybe not as bad as how much can a machine costs at home is limited to a certain amount. For hifi a pc of cable can be more ex than a machine.

Also, taste is subjective some like this some like that, same as hifi, some like more bass some like more high frequency.

If some ppl like cafe latte, just get an OK machine and make sure can froth the milk properly can liao, no need to get expensive single origins.

I kinda "hate" it when art-y type of complications come into play, is it some snake oil or what?

My 2 cts....

Agreed but hifi world is much worse. like what u mentioned At least For espresso it is not so much the machines but the skill of the user and his ability to appreciate also comes into play. so unfortunately there is a wide range of methods and skills to use, some work some are questionable and most are very hard to verify its usefulness. The only think i'm ever sure is that an uneven extraction seem from a bottomless portafilter is almost certainly going to lead to overwhelmingly bitter espresso.

generally i don't favour specifically light or dark roasts or floral or nutty, fruity, spicy, herbal durians or caramelly flavours. all are pleasant. The problem comes when there are off flavours introduced in the drink eg, burnt ashes, vegetables etc or when the drink is overwhelmingly unbalanced eg. too sour, too much bite or unremarkably tasteless.

while some people just like cafe lattes with punchy espresso to give it some character to the milky drink i think its worthwhile for everyone to get our of their comfort zone make the effort to try out and explore SOs, different roasting styles, and even espressos from different countries. There will eventually be personal favourites but i think educated exploration is the key to true appreciation. Appreciation of fine things is a slow but enjoyable learning process if adequate time and effort is taken (within ones finances of course.). This applies to all nice things

 

[chikyblink]

oei tiger, your oz beans arrived liao or not? many ppl waiting for your review leh.