(GPGT)Espresso machine hoot

[compuser]

No i was just calculating, but the prices are just marginally cheaper comparing already roasted.

If i've to get a roaster to roast myself, how long before i can ROI it?
The cost of electricity to run the roaster won't be little and it will release a lot of gas.

Since it's not like a machine where we can get a semi professional espresso machine which has the same function/result as full professional machines.

The commercial roasters will have more controls, and can do a better roast by the sensors and roasting methods.

Thus i will rather buy from those already done.

I have an oven which has convection and can rotate, for roasting chicken, wonder whether i can modify it to use it for coffee.

 

[seianko]

Been home roasting over more than a year on my genecafe. Very good ... I source my greens from. Freshcafe at stirling rd.

U guys can checkout genecafe roaster if interested. I got it cheap and import one in from Korea

nah....i stay in a place where there is alot of good beans for very reasonable price

even for artisan beans, it is ard $75sgd/kg but u dun get it in sg.

 

[derazor]

No i was just calculating, but the prices are just marginally cheaper comparing already roasted.

If i've to get a roaster to roast myself, how long before i can ROI it?
The cost of electricity to run the roaster won't be little and it will release a lot of gas.

Since it's not like a machine where we can get a semi professional espresso machine which has the same function/result as full professional machines.

The commercial roasters will have more controls, and can do a better roast by the sensors and roasting methods.

Thus i will rather buy from those already done.

I have an oven which has convection and can rotate, for roasting chicken, wonder whether i can modify it to use it for coffee.

Some ppl treat it like a hobby . Cost is not the concern but the end result.

 

[relaxlabrudder]

hey there, can you share more about your genecafe? Can you clearly hear the first/second cracks? Do you do back to back roasts? Do you cool your beans in the chamber or dump it out to a colander?

And lastly, which website do you got it from?

I got it from Korea genecafe. They told me they dun do retail , but I told them I wan do demo for my online shop. Then they ok but ask me to TT over.

I think you can find genecafe roaster online but now it like more expensive than I bought. I bot 500 usd

Anyway the roasting is fun. Yes u can hear the 1st,2nd crack

For half yr I was roasting near chao tar beans .... Then I chance about a YouTube video that showed me after my 1st crack i should reduce it to 220 degc instead of maintain at 235-39 degc .... Wah man... Dat was a break through I needed .... And I also took special tips from mr tan Tiong of fresh cafe....


And Jacob supplied me raw beans at reasonable price , I buy 5-8 kg each time .... U can keep greens for up to 4 yrs. so every time I took a batch to roast like 250gx2 .... Since genecafe capacity around 250 gm.... Enuf last me a 2-3 weeks

Yes, I do use colander sieve to cool it... And I sprayed very fine spray of water on it to accelerate cooling ...

Why I roast ? Bcos generally I find those beans of shelf whether artisan or whatever .... They are too sour / acidic for my liking...
Also roasted beans bought off shelf at most have left span of 1-2weeks ... So I wan my beans as fresh as possible.

I go for full city roast which is dark colour roast, and it means roasting til 20 min and then allow genecafe to auto cool it or some call it coasting along..... Then dump it into a chilled colander and flip the beans up and down ( it's a skill) and do my spray water thingy ....lol

Previously use to take notes on timing temperature ... Now I just use my smell , sound of 1st crack, colour of beans to guide me..... I use to roast til 2nd crack which most beginners do but now no more ... I am able to control the roasting before 2nd crack but close enough for my full city roast

 

[chikyblink]

great info. thanks for sharing.
couple more questions, how do you handle the smoke? did you connect a pipe from the exhaust of the genecafe and aim it out the window? I suspect you'll have little smoke to deal with since you stop b4 the 2nd crack.
are you making espresso with the beans or filtered coffee ? what's your equipment like?

Sent from GAGT Android App

 

[calbay]

Green coffee must be stored away from moisture, humidity below 60% and 20 degrees else it will ferment and distort the aroma. Will discolour the beans too.
As well away from light.

In Singapore, i won't even recommend keeping green for more than 9 months.
The amino acids and sugar will degrade and oxidation of the lipids will make the aroma stale and sourness increase.
Greens also have a resting period of about 30-40 days.


I roast myself with a tiny tool when i was in SG at home.
Now i'm using a full commercial roaster in Australia for our cafe.

I don't do quenching with water, it's a technique big companies use to expand the beans during roasting. They say it expands flavours which i don't think it's true, according to a very advance roasting machines company i spoke to.

If you don't like the sourness, you can roast it darker which also makes it more bitter.
To be honest, that's very amateurish.

Artisans roasters generally don't do that for themselves. Cause you are burning away the character of the coffee at dark roast.

Theoretically the best roast is medium roast but it can be sourish which people may not like. It's the shade which has the most profiles of aroma preserved.
The acidity level is about the same whether it's dark or light roast.

Depends on the type of machine you are using, most machines are releasing pressure at a flat line. In that case, it's actually always better to use a blend than a single origin.
So if you are buying greens, and you are buying single origin, to be honest it's not really recommended. Unless you are using a lever machine or the single origin was done by split roasting, which i don't see many or any roasters doing.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

oh c'mon, you haven't even started and you're giving up? Dont read too much on those high lvl roast profiling stuff and overcomplicate yourself. Those ppl have got hundreds of roast under their belt and I'm pretty sure they start out with cheap gear and greens. Everyone's a noob once.
To me now, roasting beans is all about getting into first crack and second crack. Thats all. All the other variables like time and temperature can be mastered along the way when you've more roasts under your belt.

Here's a little sneak preview.

Not giving up, just not starting yet.

What roaster are you using?

I have tried some home roasted from a friend and honestly have not been very impressed.

 

[relaxlabrudder]

Acidity is over rated. American coffee acidity is over rated ... U drink Italian , the acidity is less than if american

Green coffee must be stored away from moisture, humidity below 60% and 20 degrees else it will ferment and distort the aroma. Will discolour the beans too.
As well away from light.

In Singapore, i won't even recommend keeping green for more than 9 months.
The amino acids and sugar will degrade and oxidation of the lipids will make the aroma stale and sourness increase.
Greens also have a resting period of about 30-40 days.


I roast myself with a tiny tool when i was in SG at home.
Now i'm using a full commercial roaster in Australia for our cafe.

I don't do quenching with water, it's a technique big companies use to expand the beans during roasting. They say it expands flavours which i don't think it's true, according to a very advance roasting machines company i spoke to.

If you don't like the sourness, you can roast it darker which also makes it more bitter.
To be honest, that's very amateurish.

Artisans roasters generally don't do that for themselves. Cause you are burning away the character of the coffee at dark roast.

Theoretically the best roast is medium roast but it can be sourish which people may not like. It's the shade which has the most profiles of aroma preserved.
The acidity level is about the same whether it's dark or light roast.

Depends on the type of machine you are using, most machines are releasing pressure at a flat line. In that case, it's actually always better to use a blend than a single origin.
So if you are buying greens, and you are buying single origin, to be honest it's not really recommended. Unless you are using a lever machine or the single origin was done by split roasting, which i don't see many or any roasters doing.

 

[relaxlabrudder]

I use my Jura automatic machine ena 3. But I use external burr grinder , I bought baratza maestro

The genecafe has a chaff collector . Yes there will be some smoke or aroma so I position my roaster near window and use a fan to blow it out in kitchen

Anyway can PM me if u wish noe more

great info. thanks for sharing.
couple more questions, how do you handle the smoke? did you connect a pipe from the exhaust of the genecafe and aim it out the window? I suspect you'll have little smoke to deal with since you stop b4 the 2nd crack.
are you making espresso with the beans or filtered coffee ? what's your equipment like?

Sent from GAGT Android App

 

[patryn33]

Drove all way to get some klatch house blend.
http://www.klatchroasting.com/House_Espresso_p/kla_hou_esp.htm

 

[Acetone]

Drove all way to get some klatch house blend.
House Espresso | Klatch Coffee

Is it nice?

 

[calbay]

Acidity is over rated. American coffee acidity is over rated ... U drink Italian , the acidity is less than if american

Hmm..
Whether you roast it dark or light, the acidity ph level remains fairly the same. Caffeine level does decrease in darker roast though.

If you are referring to the sourness.
It really depends on personal preference.
There is no winning side whether Italians or Americans are better.
Between them, they actually have different opinion and different understanding for their coffee.
Unlike most belief, machine and the coffee used make up majority of the equation, not really the grinder nor the barista imo. The roaster will play a bigger part than the barista.
Being a barista who trained in both teaching, under celebrity baristas and traditional IT cafes. I think Italians will eventually be proven right in many things they do.

At medium-light roasting, the flavours blossom yet preserved and you can articulate the true character of the coffee better.
The sweet luscious after taste lingers better.
It's another form of appreciation and it's when you can taste the difference between different type of coffee distintively.

Yes most of the time lighter roast is a little more sour, but that's how you can appreciate coffee. Coffee cherry is most of the time sour.
They are exceptions though, like the mutated burbons.
If you take a dark roast, all of them taste fairly similar and that's where it gets boring. Almost a waste of money in many case, particularly when i see people dark roasting peaberries.

It's true that most people appreciate darker roast, probably 70% and above. We personally think it's a cultural thing.
Actually as you mature and you start to really explore and play around with different blend, with different roast. You will definitely agree that coffee don't necessary have to be dark and bitter to be nice.

 

[patryn33]

Is it nice?

It's better than nice! Worth my 3 hr drive

 

[relaxlabrudder]

U happy ok la, amateur or master Nmind la, relaxlabrudder

Hmm..
Whether you roast it dark or light, the acidity ph level remains fairly the same. Caffeine level does decrease in darker roast though.

If you are referring to the sourness.
It really depends on personal preference.
There is no winning side whether Italians or Americans are better.
Between them, they actually have different opinion and different understanding for their coffee.
Unlike most belief, machine and the coffee used make up majority of the equation, not really the grinder nor the barista imo. The roaster will play a bigger part than the barista.
Being a barista who trained in both teaching, under celebrity baristas and traditional IT cafes. I think Italians will eventually be proven right in many things they do.

At medium-light roasting, the flavours blossom yet preserved and you can articulate the true character of the coffee better.
The sweet luscious after taste lingers better.
It's another form of appreciation and it's when you can taste the difference between different type of coffee distintively.

Yes most of the time lighter roast is a little more sour, but that's how you can appreciate coffee. Coffee cherry is most of the time sour.
They are exceptions though, like the mutated burbons.
If you take a dark roast, all of them taste fairly similar and that's where it gets boring. Almost a waste of money in many case, particularly when i see people dark roasting peaberries.

It's true that most people appreciate darker roast, probably 70% and above. We personally think it's a cultural thing.
Actually as you mature and you start to really explore and play around with different blend, with different roast. You will definitely agree that coffee don't necessary have to be dark and bitter to be nice.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

I use my Jura automatic machine ena 3. But I use external burr grinder , I bought baratza maestro

The genecafe has a chaff collector . Yes there will be some smoke or aroma so I position my roaster near window and use a fan to blow it out in kitchen

Anyway can PM me if u wish noe more

how is your ena 3? it is able to grind fine enough? If there is a super auto that can make decent espresso i'll buy it straight away for work!

 

[relaxlabrudder]

how is your ena 3? it is able to grind fine enough? If there is a super auto that can make decent espresso i'll buy it straight away for work!

I dun use ena's grinder , I use baratza grinder to grind it fine enough , then use the inlet for grounds on ena

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

Hmm..
Whether you roast it dark or light, the acidity ph level remains fairly the same. Caffeine level does decrease in darker roast though.

If you are referring to the sourness.
It really depends on personal preference.
There is no winning side whether Italians or Americans are better.
Between them, they actually have different opinion and different understanding for their coffee.
Unlike most belief, machine and the coffee used make up majority of the equation, not really the grinder nor the barista imo. The roaster will play a bigger part than the barista.
Being a barista who trained in both teaching, under celebrity baristas and traditional IT cafes. I think Italians will eventually be proven right in many things they do.

At medium-light roasting, the flavours blossom yet preserved and you can articulate the true character of the coffee better.
The sweet luscious after taste lingers better.
It's another form of appreciation and it's when you can taste the difference between different type of coffee distintively.

Yes most of the time lighter roast is a little more sour, but that's how you can appreciate coffee. Coffee cherry is most of the time sour.
They are exceptions though, like the mutated burbons.
If you take a dark roast, all of them taste fairly similar and that's where it gets boring. Almost a waste of money in many case, particularly when i see people dark roasting peaberries.

It's true that most people appreciate darker roast, probably 70% and above. We personally think it's a cultural thing.
Actually as you mature and you start to really explore and play around with different blend, with different roast. You will definitely agree that coffee don't necessary have to be dark and bitter to be nice.

hmmm honestly i feel there are exceptions to the dark roast = bitter and light roast = sour. I've tried some very light roasted coffee and there was practically no heavy sourness just smooth creamy flavours with lots of chocolate such as squaremile's red brick offerings. Their sweetshop offering is the high acidity/fruit bomb one.

But I do think that the espresso extraction method tends to favour slightly darker roasts. light roasted coffee on espressos are very hard to extract properly and are often sour, weak and vegetal. most filter offerings are slightly lighter roasted to highlight the single origin's nose characteristics as you have pointed out less dark roasts will destroy less of the aromatic compounds.

 

[seianko]

@calbay

thanks for the WOT, a good read.

a drinker shud learn to mature from dark bitter expresso dupio and evolve to discover the other layer of taste within. which is why i fall in love a drips recent years.

 

[chikyblink]

Home Roasting on a popcorn popper!

Alright guys, my little popper just arrived from china a few days ago.
Qoo10 - [VINS-CNY HOT SALE]POPCORN MAKER n Cotton CANDY FOR HOME USE / MINI PO... : Household Goods

Did a little project on bean cooling. I rewired a 120mm PC fan to a power plug. Cut out a hole on a Khong Guan biscuit tin, stick the fan in, put a sieve on top and viola! Simple and effective bean cooling station.

Time for my first roast! I have planned to mod the popper. But I wanted to see what the stock popper can do first. I didn't know how much greens to use, so I anyhow humtum 60gm try first. I use a small box over the popper to try and contain the chaff for easier clean up later.
60gm Brazilian Santos in and ready to go.

I wasn't expecting anything good to come up with my first roast. I turned the popper on and start the timer. The greens started swirling slowly but smoothly. Within 1 min, chaff started flying out. There was also a bit of smoke around the 2 min mark. At around 3mins20secs, I heard the 1st crack. The beans turned lighter and was swirling faster. Some also started to fly out of the popper. I guess 60gm is too much for the short chamber of the popper.

Without removing the thermostat on the popper, I knew its gonna shut down anytime soon. So every 20secs, I turned the popper off for 5secs to try and prevent the thermostat from kicking in. But at the same time, I need the heat to bring the beans to 2nd crack.

At around 8mins, I still haven't heard the 2nd crack. So i tried leaving the popper from that point onwards. Shortly after 9mins, sure enough the popper shuts down. But 2nd crack hadn't occur. I decided to **** it and just pour the beans onto the sieve to cool them.

In less than 2mins, the beans are already cooled. I weighed them and only 36gm is left. That is to be expected as most of the moisture is gone and some of them jumped out from the chamber. I transferred them into a coffee bean bag with a one-way valve. I've saved all the coffee bean bags I've bought over the past year.

Things to mod next:
attach a cylinder to the popper to extend the chamber
remove the thermostat

So exciting.

 

[derazor]

power leh bro.....go those youtube a lot they got teach...