(GPGT)Espresso machine hoot

[prozaizxc]

Thanks for the replies guys, yep the article was indeed informative!

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

Thanks for the replies guys, yep the article was indeed informative!

The aeropress is a very versatile tool, depending on what flavours u want u can use more or less water, grind fine or coarse and infuse 10secs or 4mins like French press. The manufacturer instructions is to grind like espresso and infuse for 10secs but for aeropress championships many infuse longer 1-2mins with more water and grind coarser.

French press and aeropress are infusion methods while drip and espresso are percolation methods (use gravity/pump to force water thru a bed of coffee).

The article mentions that moka pot tastes more like espresso because there is no paper filter to trap the oils. I disagree with this because not much oils is actually trapped in the paper. The moka pot tastes more like espresso maybe due to the presence of fines and pressure used in brewing using the moka pot.

 

[chikyblink]

French press and aeropress are infusion methods while drip and espresso are percolation methods (use gravity/pump to force water thru a bed of coffee).

The aeropress is a hybrid, a combination of both methods!

 

[Sylar22]

Anybody tried the four chairs espresso blend from nylon coffee before? Personally i find it a bit sour and acidic.

 

[chikyblink]

Anybody tried the four chairs espresso blend from nylon coffee before? Personally i find it a bit sour and acidic.

Did you try a shot at their shop or did you buy the beans and pull yourself?

Nylon's beans are generally light-roasted and can be perceived as sour and acidic for newbie palates like mine

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

The aeropress is a hybrid, a combination of both methods!

Yes add water, stir infuse and then percolate. I suppose the French press is like that too. If only something cheap like the aeropress can produce portable real espresso. The portaspresso is tempting but very expensive....

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

Anybody tried the four chairs espresso blend from nylon coffee before? Personally i find it a bit sour and acidic.

Did u try from the shop? Sometimes barista can make mistakes. If u are at home use 18-19g dose, vst basket 18g, 30sec shot, 95 degrees. Espresso weight about 38-39g. Needs more extraction to balance the sours maybe because it's light roasted.

If no vst basket then dose less and maybe get a higher ratio. Eg. 14g dose with 30-35g shot weight.

Remember initial extraction is sours, followed by more mellow caramels/long chain sugars and lastly bitters.

 

[compuser]

I'm not sure about you guys, i drink espressos.

Lately i tried 15 to 18 grams on a single 25-30ml shot.
Very nice looking with very nice flow.

But taste too thick to my liking, felt nauseous after drinking 2.
Is it a normal or even a standard to use so much?
Even my German colleague says it's too thick not enjoyable.

I asked a few cafes, most of them use 18 grams for double.
They said what i'm doing isn't even considered an espresso, it's a double shot ristretto.

I wonder how much they use for single.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

I'm not sure about you guys, i drink espressos.

Lately i tried 15 to 18 grams on a single 25-30ml shot.
Very nice looking with very nice flow.

But taste too thick to my liking, felt nauseous after drinking 2.
Is it a normal or even a standard to use so much?
Even my German colleague says it's too thick not enjoyable.

I asked a few cafes, most of them use 18 grams for double.
They said what i'm doing isn't even considered an espresso, it's a double shot ristretto.

I wonder how much they use for single.

How much does your 30ml weigh? With crema a 30ml may weight as low at 18g. So u may be pulling a very restricted shot with a 1:1 ratio. A ristretto is more like 1:1.5 or 27g weight for 18g shot.

Usage of double or single shot terminology I s meaningless unless u are talking specifically about using a single (7g) basket for a single shot and a standard doubles basket for a double.

 

[compuser]

I used a weighing scale to measure it's abt 25 grams.
Not too exact on the ml, cause i don't have a measuring cup but visually around there measuring from my espresso cup size.
I don't tamp hard, naturally can't grind too fine else can't pass through.

15-18 grams of course is using on double basket la.
Double basket on a single spout or bottomless portafilter.

Comes out something like dark soya sauce and really comes out something like a syrup.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

I used a weighing scale to measure it's abt 25 grams.
Not too exact on the ml, cause i don't have a measuring cup but visually around there measuring from my espresso cup size.
I don't tamp hard, naturally can't grind too fine else can't pass through.

15-18 grams of course is using on double basket la.
Double basket on a single spout or bottomless portafilter.

Comes out something like dark soya sauce and really comes out something like a syrup.

Stick to your usual ratio then. Ristretto when properly made with the correct beans Taste sweet and intense. Lucky me.

If it really comes out entirely like dark soya sauce then u are probably pulling it too tight. It should look like melted caramel with light streaks of chocolate in the flow.

Of course u are using a double basket. What I am saying is the terminology of a single and double shot to describe shot volume is antiquated. It's only useful if u are using it to describe shots pulled from a single or double basket.

 

[Sylar22]

Did you try a shot at their shop or did you buy the beans and pull yourself?

Nylon's beans are generally light-roasted and can be perceived as sour and acidic for newbie palates like mine

I tried a 5oz white at their shop then went on to purchase a bag of beans back and pulled shots myself. But the shots i pulled tasted even more sour than the ones i drank in the shop.

 

[Sylar22]

Did u try from the shop? Sometimes barista can make mistakes. If u are at home use 18-19g dose, vst basket 18g, 30sec shot, 95 degrees. Espresso weight about 38-39g. Needs more extraction to balance the sours maybe because it's light roasted.

If no vst basket then dose less and maybe get a higher ratio. Eg. 14g dose with 30-35g shot weight.

Remember initial extraction is sours, followed by more mellow caramels/long chain sugars and lastly bitters.

I'm dosing arnd 17-18g on a double basket now. Pulling about 25 seconds in for 40ml and 29g espresso weight. Now that you have mention that light roast needs more extraction, that could be the cure to the sourness to my extraction becoz I'm pulling too short a shot. I'm going to try and pull a 38g with an 18g dose and see how it's gonna taste. Usually i stop at 25 secs becoz the colour of the extraction begins to turn pale golden and is watery.

 

[chikyblink]

I'm not sure about you guys, i drink espressos.

Lately i tried 15 to 18 grams on a single 25-30ml shot.
Very nice looking with very nice flow.

But taste too thick to my liking, felt nauseous after drinking 2.
Is it a normal or even a standard to use so much?
Even my German colleague says it's too thick not enjoyable.

I asked a few cafes, most of them use 18 grams for double.
They said what i'm doing isn't even considered an espresso, it's a double shot ristretto.

I wonder how much they use for single.

Sounds like you're updosing from your normal dosage without coarsening the grind. This will led to a tighter shot, a ristretto which you may not be used to. Then again the roast level of the beans you're using makes a difference too. If you're using light roasted beans and pulling ristrettos, there's a very high chance you're under extracting, which will taste sour.
Try pulling a ristretto on a darker roasted bean, it might surprise you.

 

[chikyblink]

I tried a 5oz white at their shop then went on to purchase a bag of beans back and pulled shots myself. But the shots i pulled tasted even more sour than the ones i drank in the shop.

Wait, did you try and replicate the same 5oz milk drink you tried at the shop? If not there's no comparison to be made. I don't know how to compare espressos drowned in milk versus straight espressos.

Did you wait at least a week after the roast date to taste it? Lighter roasts require a longer rest time than darker roasts.

 

[Sylar22]

Wait, did you try and replicate the same 5oz milk drink you tried at the shop? If not there's no comparison to be made. I don't know how to compare espressos drowned in milk versus straight espressos.

Did you wait at least a week after the roast date to taste it? Lighter roasts require a longer rest time than darker roasts.

I didn't get to try a straight up espresso shot from the shop but only a 5oz white or latte. I'm not exactly trying to replicate the white from the shop. Just by tasting the shot that i pulled myself it tasted rather sour but i will try what lazy tiger just recommended ,which is to pull a longer shot to extract an even blend.

 

[patryn33]

The article mentions that moka pot tastes more like espresso because there is no paper filter to trap the oils. I disagree with this because not much oils is actually trapped in the paper. The moka pot tastes more like espresso maybe due to the presence of fines and pressure used in brewing using the moka pot.

I was not able to find studies on how much oils is trapped on paper?
googling only seen articles from ppl saying paper remove Diterpenes and essential oils. there are no claims it will remove 100%. Question is how much as some ppl do thinks it helps lower cholesterol.

ie
CoffeeGeek - Coffee: Machines and Brewing Methods, Coava DISK Coffee Filter for Aeropress, Review (long)

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

I was not able to find studies on how much oils is trapped on paper?
googling only seen articles from ppl saying paper remove Diterpenes and essential oils. there are no claims it will remove 100%. Question is how much as some ppl do thinks it helps lower cholesterol.

ie
CoffeeGeek - Coffee: Machines and Brewing Methods, Coava DISK Coffee Filter for Aeropress, Review (long)

I came across a medical study some time ago that mentions drinking too much coffee can increase cholesterol levels due cafestol. This only happens in non filtered coffee. Apparently filter coffee does not have this effect cos the paper prevents cafestol from getting into the cup.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

I'm dosing arnd 17-18g on a double basket now. Pulling about 25 seconds in for 40ml and 29g espresso weight. Now that you have mention that light roast needs more extraction, that could be the cure to the sourness to my extraction becoz I'm pulling too short a shot. I'm going to try and pull a 38g with an 18g dose and see how it's gonna taste. Usually i stop at 25 secs becoz the colour of the extraction begins to turn pale golden and is watery.

The recipe for a 38g shot is actually what nylon pulls. It worked for me for the 4 chairs blend although I usually make ristrettos for other coffees. U could also apply the "Al's rule of thirds". The lower the espresso weight (ristretto) the longer the brew time should be. So based on this, ristretto should take a longer time to brew to get the proper flavour balance. Why? A longer time is needed for the limited water to stay in the puck to extract more stuff. Seems to work for me most of the time.
If u prefer a more balanced blend I would recommend their Brazilian espresso. Vale verde or something. Less acidity and overall creamier.

Happy experimenting.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

Try pulling a ristretto on a darker roasted bean, it might surprise you.

Exactly. Early when I experimented with darker Italian style blends (eg. Red bird, bodka and perfero velvet) I expected violently bitter espresso with ristrettos. Instead a low dose 14g, low weight 20-23g, low temp was more balanced and smooth. Who says dark roasted coffee should taste like ashes!

When pulled for too long to get a high weight the coffee flavour balance swung to bitter and harsh but....it was also less intense. Keyword: balanced. Concentrated does not always mean bitter. U can also get concentrated and balanced.