(GPGT)Espresso machine hoot

[patryn33]

I came across a medical study some time ago that mentions drinking too much coffee can increase cholesterol levels due cafestol. This only happens in non filtered coffee. Apparently filter coffee does not have this effect cos the paper prevents cafestol from getting into the cup.

2012 harvard health letter
What is it about coffee? - Harvard Health Publications

But upon closer inspection, the bad news turned out to be not so bad, because the cholesterol-raising effect seems to be limited to coffee that hasn't been filtered, which includes Turkish coffee, coffee brewed in a French press, and the boiled coffee consumed in Scandinavia.

The cholesterol-raising ingredients in coffee are oily substances called diterpenes, and the two main types in coffee are cafestol (pronounced CAF-es-tol) and kahweol (pronounced KAH-we-awl). They are present either as oily droplets or in the grounds floating in the coffee. But a paper filter traps most of the cafestol and kahweol, so coffee that's been filtered probably has little, if any, effect on cholesterol levels.

The best evidence is for paper filters, but an interesting study published in 2011 showed that filtering methods used in Singapore (the so-called sock method, which uses a cotton-nylon cloth) and India (metal mesh) were also effective at trapping cafestol.

Espresso contains more cafestol and kahweol than paper-filtered coffee, but because it is consumed in smaller amounts, it may not have much of an effect on people's LDL level.

same doc from Harvard
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/coffee/

It’s best to brew coffee with a paper filter, to remove a substance that causes increases in LDL cholesterol.

this talks about extraction methods and yields by University of Nottingham
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0963996912002360

Roasting time and choice of brew mechanism impact in-cup delivery of cafestol with French press, boiled coffee and Turkish preparation methods producing higher cafestol concentrations than the mocha preparation method. Higher roasting times led to a 42% reduction in cafestol concentration on a concentration basis within the brews.

The extraction yield of cafestol from R&G coffee is dependent both on the choice of brew mechanism and roasting time, with lighter roast coffee brews having a greater cafestol extraction yield and darker roast coffee brews having a lower cafestol extraction yield.

someone took the time to compiled a a list of studies. one states coffee rich in diterpenes cafestol and kahweol does not affect serum concentrations of liver aminotransferases and lipids. however they still recommend patients to drink filtered coffee. another states "Filtering removed more than 80% of the lipid-soluble substance that was present in boiled coffee"
http://coffeegeek.com/files/371/Cholesterol.doc

 

[derazor]

patryn,

so espresso and filtered coffee are OK based on study?

 

[Sylar22]

The recipe for a 38g shot is actually what nylon pulls. It worked for me for the 4 chairs blend although I usually make ristrettos for other coffees. U could also apply the "Al's rule of thirds". The lower the espresso weight (ristretto) the longer the brew time should be. So based on this, ristretto should take a longer time to brew to get the proper flavour balance. Why? A longer time is needed for the limited water to stay in the puck to extract more stuff. Seems to work for me most of the time.
If u prefer a more balanced blend I would recommend their Brazilian espresso. Vale verde or something. Less acidity and overall creamier.

Happy experimenting.

Just pulled a 44g espresso weight from a 18g dose , 30 secs but the coffee still taste very acidic. Coffee is about 9 days from the roast date. If i use Al's rule, i have to let the first 1 or 2 seconds drip away before collecting the espresso in a cup right since the starting of the shot is suppose to be sour. Previously i tried blends from tiong hoe and toby estate but didn't really face such a problem. Maybe it's just the beans.

 

[compuser]

It's probably just the beans. If it's lighter roast, it gets more sour less bitter

 

[n0d3]

Just pulled a 44g espresso weight from a 18g dose , 30 secs but the coffee still taste very acidic. Coffee is about 9 days from the roast date. If i use Al's rule, i have to let the first 1 or 2 seconds drip away before collecting the espresso in a cup right since the starting of the shot is suppose to be sour. Previously i tried blends from tiong hoe and toby estate but didn't really face such a problem. Maybe it's just the beans.

*oops i didn't read*

Anyway Lazy Tiger is about right when he wrote how Nylon pulls Four Chairs. I think perhaps it's just roasted lighter and it it's slightly more technically challenging to pull compared to the darker roasted ones you've tried before. Try letting it rest a bit more pull it closer to 10-12 days.

 

[Sylar22]

It's probably just the beans. If it's lighter roast, it gets more sour less bitter

Yup, it's a lighter roast compared to the beans i used previously

*oops i didn't read*

Anyway Lazy Tiger is about right when he wrote how Nylon pulls Four Chairs. I think perhaps it's just roasted lighter and it it's slightly more technically challenging to pull compared to the darker roasted ones you've tried before. Try letting it rest a bit more pull it closer to 10-12 days.

Yup, I'm following his advice by trying to pull the shot longer to balance the flavours. Will try again closer after 10 days into the roast.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

Just pulled a 44g espresso weight from a 18g dose , 30 secs but the coffee still taste very acidic. Coffee is about 9 days from the roast date. If i use Al's rule, i have to let the first 1 or 2 seconds drip away before collecting the espresso in a cup right since the starting of the shot is suppose to be sour. Previously i tried blends from tiong hoe and toby estate but didn't really face such a problem. Maybe it's just the beans.

Yup maybe just the beans. As you mentioned you could just collect the "centre cut" of the extraction but usually i find this removes alot of the body of the coffee which i usually like to have in the cup.

If you like something more traditional maybe try highlander beans. If you are willing to spend a bit more try order from hasbean - Jailbreak or blake blend. Very easy to pull and get a delicious shot. If you don't mind older beans and want something super traditional get Perfero Velvet (italian) from coffee in a place.

i'm currently trying to pull a shot from this brazilian from hasbean. made 3 shots already but all are sink shots. The bean needs a coarse grind or it won't pour out! The kenyan is very interesting. Really has marmite flavours and I only dare brew this one with a kalita wave, no espresso.

[/IMG]

 

[chikyblink]

I second Hasbean's Blake. Really delicious! Pity mine started to gone stale after the 15th day.

Anyway I thought I put this video here. Very very interesting, well at least to me. Its about a guy who's involve in the R&D of a grinder, the mighty Mythos!
Tamper Tantrum Lite The Fumbally – Colin Harmon : Tamper Tantrum

 

[patryn33]

patryn,

so espresso and filtered coffee are OK based on study?

base on their studies, it sure looks that way.

 

[seianko]

Hand grind qwestion

Cera coffee grinder and porlex mini which is better?

for all it is worth, I am struggling to decide which is more suited porlex mini or tall...

 

[prozaizxc]

Hows the versatility of the lido 2 grinder?
Heard its better for drip coffees than grinding for espressos as it can't really grind fine enough
Also, how many grind size settings are there and is the "steps" between each number very small or large such that it is tough to get the perfect grind size
Anybody owning one can share their experience?

 

[patryn33]

Hows the versatility of the lido 2 grinder?
Heard its better for drip coffees than grinding for espressos as it can't really grind fine enough
Also, how many grind size settings are there and is the "steps" between each number very small or large such that it is tough to get the perfect grind size
Anybody owning one can share their experience?

U find more ppl here to give u the info loads of info online really. Lido 2 is stepless. Stepless is harder but more control, step is easier but less control.
http://www.home-barista.com/grinders/first-impressions-of-lido-2-manual-grinder-t32874.html

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

Hand grind qwestion

Cera coffee grinder and porlex mini which is better?

for all it is worth, I am struggling to decide which is more suited porlex mini or tall...

No experience with cera mill but looks the same as the porlex. If u don't need so much grinded coffee, making only 1 cup at a time then porlex mini is enough. Good for travel too.

 

[Sylar22]

Just pulled a nylon coffee four chairs blend 18g dose , extraction 39g espresso weight 30 seconds. Still taste pretty sour. Crema starts to slowly dissipate as time goes.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

Just pulled a nylon coffee four chairs blend 18g dose , extraction 39g espresso weight 30 seconds. Still taste pretty sour. Crema starts to slowly dissipate as time goes.

using vst basket? temperature of water could be cold. hard to tell problems from crema alone. perhaps u could lessen the dose and grind finer.

*oops just realised you are using a 53mm portafilter. most commercial ones are 58mm. Filter basket surface area makes a big difference in the way the extraction happens. In that case you might want to use a proportionally smaller dose and get a proportionally smaller espresso in the same time (30ish secs). 18g could be too much for a 53mm portafilter and my gut feeling is that it causes it to still underextract and still taste sour. I could be wrong though.

Too cold water could also be a cause of under extracted sour espresso. single boiler without pid can swing between being too cold and too hot. fast dirty way is to wait for your boiler to finish boiling and then flush the water out bit by bit until you don't see bubbling super heated water coming out of the shower screen. the water should flow normally. Then quickly lock in your portafilter and brew.

The basics still apply, good grind quality, good distribution, even level tamp.

 

[Sylar22]

using vst basket? temperature of water could be cold. hard to tell problems from crema alone. perhaps u could lessen the dose and grind finer.

*oops just realised you are using a 53mm portafilter. most commercial ones are 58mm. Filter basket surface area makes a big difference in the way the extraction happens. In that case you might want to use a proportionally smaller dose and get a proportionally smaller espresso in the same time (30ish secs). 18g could be too much for a 53mm portafilter and my gut feeling is that it causes it to still underextract and still taste sour. I could be wrong though.

Too cold water could also be a cause of under extracted sour espresso. single boiler without pid can swing between being too cold and too hot. fast dirty way is to wait for your boiler to finish boiling and then flush the water out bit by bit until you don't see bubbling super heated water coming out of the shower screen. the water should flow normally. Then quickly lock in your portafilter and brew.

The basics still apply, good grind quality, good distribution, even level tamp.

The original pressurised basket can only dose 14g but recently i purchased an unpressurized basket from taobao which i think can dose up to 19g. The width of the holes are about 42mm apart. I'm not sure how the surface area will affect the extraction, maybe you could share?

I've got a feeling that it has got to do with the temperature being too low. I've tried temperature surfing by flushing out the water till the boiler light goes off, press the boiler button to stop the flow,after the boiler light comes back on i will wait for another 30 secs before extracting. Not sure if there's another way to get the temperature to brewing temparature though. Btw I'm using a delonghi eco310.

 

[patryn33]

Cup of Excellence winners for order
https://madcapcoffee.com/buy/coffee/cup-of-excellence

 

[compuser]

Just pulled a nylon coffee four chairs blend 18g dose , extraction 39g espresso weight 30 seconds. Still taste pretty sour. Crema starts to slowly dissipate as time goes.

Your coffee is meant for fruity profiles, so naturally more sour la.

If your temperature run too low also will become more sour.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

The original pressurised basket can only dose 14g but recently i purchased an unpressurized basket from taobao which i think can dose up to 19g. The width of the holes are about 42mm apart. I'm not sure how the surface area will affect the extraction, maybe you could share?

This guy explains it well:
Some Aspects of Espresso Extraction
"The major predictor of yield is the weight of the puck divided by the hole area at the bottom of the basket (P/A). I measured the diameter of the hole-punched area at the bottom of the basket and squared it. This figure is not the actual hole area; but is directly proportional to it and easy to determine. The P/A measure can be simply understood as the depth of the puck in the basket; a fat or deep puck extracts less solubles than a thin or shallow puck. "

My 18g vst is 48mm hole to hole width. So i guess the column of coffee in your 53mm portafilter is too high compared to 58mm. Maybe try to dose less, and get less espresso for the same amount of time of 30secs. (may need to grind finer). The higher the column the more progressively difficult for the water to extract the solubles at the lower part of the puck because it already contains the dissolved solubles from the higher part of the puck.

I've got a feeling that it has got to do with the temperature being too low. I've tried temperature surfing by flushing out the water till the boiler light goes off, press the boiler button to stop the flow,after the boiler light comes back on i will wait for another 30 secs before extracting. Not sure if there's another way to get the temperature to brewing temparature though. Btw I'm using a delonghi eco310.

Yes water temp could be a problem too. I suggest fixing your temp surf routine before fixing the dosage. You could use a scace ii but its expensive.
Scace 2 - Espresso Machine Thermofilter - Temperature & Pressure Device - Espresso Parts
Or you could make your own with a thermocouple.

So alternatively may i suggest this test.

1. warm up machine for 30 mins
2. When the ok light turns on turn on your brewing pump. Observe the shower screen. Does super heated water gush out? (SHHHHHH sound).
3. If yes, then wait for the ok light to turn off and then turn on again. Wait for 10 secs.Then press the brewing button.
4. If you are still getting super heated water, repeat step 3 but add 10 secs to wait time. (20s, 30s, 40s,)
5. When you don't get super heated water note the wait time and use that in your brewing routine. (May want to add another 10-20secs to get water even lower temps to 88-95 degrees)
6. If at step 2 and the initial 0 wait time does not produce super heated water then maybe you don't need to temp surf at all. When the boiler "ok" light is on that is the exact time you should start brewing. Or it could also mean that the water is still too cold for brewing. You can play around with your steam switch to heat the water or just go for darker roasted coffee.

here is an example of super heated water (flash boiling). At about 50secs the water is no more flash boiling and is more or less at the correct brew temp.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3_nwQxk7q0

Ahh makes me feel like buying a eco310 for myself and play around it it. Happy brewing.

 

[derazor]

Cup of Excellence winners for order
https://madcapcoffee.com/buy/coffee/cup-of-excellence

better use for filters..