(GPGT)Espresso machine hoot

[CTBR]

Wow Lazy_Tiger congrats on your purchase, the cremina looks so beautiful!
If I remember correctly, you wrote that you were interested in the strega as well. What prompted you to choose cremina over strega?

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

Wow Lazy_Tiger congrats on your purchase, the cremina looks so beautiful!
If I remember correctly, you wrote that you were interested in the strega as well. What prompted you to choose cremina over strega?

I decided to get a manual lever over a spring assisted one like a strega or a microcasa because i think a manual lever offers more control over a spring lever. Home lever machines like a microcasa also do not extract at 9 bar (6 bars actually) so the shot may lose body but gain clarity. Idrocompresso and strega uses a commercial group that can go up to 9 bars but they are largely HX machines. so you still need to flush before brewing a shot as the water in the hx is too hot. this leads to another problem. temp management. the more water you flush thru a lever machine the hotter the group gets to a point where you need to cool the group before it gets too hot to brew. So its different from the usual e-61 hxs where the longer you flush the hx group the cooler your shot will be. The strega further complicates this by having 2 heating cartridges on their groups. This gets quite complicated temp management wise if you like to brew different coffees unlike in a commercial setting which usually brews one coffee the whole day.

Temp management on the cremina seems more well documented online with experiments done by the home barista community to define a routine for "cool, warm and hot" temp profiles. idle temps after 30 mins start up produces at 92 celcius brew temps. . flush to increase temperature. insert cold portafilter to decrease brew temps.


The pavoni is also similar but i decided to get something with local support in case.

 

[chikyblink]

Lol. I guess everyone is just busy exploring and drinking coffee.

Share my 2 recent purchases.

Swee lah!
For the Cremina is the price listed at the website the price you paid? Are there any hidden costs? Also, what are your thoughts on the L1? Same as Strega?

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

Swee lah!
For the Cremina is the price listed at the website the price you paid? Are there any hidden costs? Also, what are your thoughts on the L1? Same as Strega?

yup same price. no discount. need to plus shipping and GST. I added a bottomless portafilter too (they charge exhobitant "swiss" price for this). Buyers remorse, makes me wonder if i should have just gone with a pavoni and practise some tinkering.

L1 isn't a hx like the strega. using a syphon to heat up the group if i'm not wrong. website claims it idles at ideal temp to brew so you can just walk up, lock in and brew. no need to flush. Group is filled up by boiler pressure (like cremina/pavoni). i think this kind of lever group will suffer from the same problem when making alot of back to back shots, overheating. the water that enters the group is above 100 degrees and relies on the thermal mass of the group as a heat sink to cool the water to suitable brewing temps. the system can be tuned to work well with the 1st bunch of shots but to do back to back non-stop in a commercial setting i think there is no way the group won't be too hot after the the umpteenth shot. the strega system of a consistent temp group with the heater cartridge and hx seems to solve this problem but makes it more difficult to temp surf. also the initial flush of the hx to flush out the super heated water does heat the group a bit....so i'm not sure how they would tune their heater cartridge system to make shot to shot consistency. the 2nd problem of adding a pump of to the system also takes away one of the characteristics and supposed advantages of the lever system, low pressure preinfusion. usual strega operation is to get the pump to completely fill the group chamber by going up to 11 bar and then releasing the lever to get the spring assisted extraction. with l1 you get a low pressure preinfusion from the boiler pressure (3 bar if i'm not wrong) before releasing to spring for 9 bar gradual declining pressure profile.

I decided on a manual lever cos i think if offers more flexibility at the cost of some consistency. able to start preinfusion at 0.8bar boiler pressure then slightly press the lever for about 4-5 bar of preinfusion for 8 secs till i see the 1st few drops then increase the pressure harder and watch the flow rate and slowly decline the pull in the last 8 secs or so. seems to work out great to produce a balanced shot.

why nobody ask about the minipresso? its pretty good too for its price. can satisfy espresso craving out in the boondocks with no electricity! or when travelling without an espresso machine.

 

[patryn33]

I own a handpresso only use it in camping go to stay at a lodge or hotel with kitchen I turn to my moka pot.
http://www.handpresso.com/en/espresso-machines/

 

[chikyblink]

@tiger
The problem you've mentioned with overheating due to multiple back to back shots, is usually in a commercial setting, which the strega or L1 are not designed for is it not? For home users who normally pull 2-3 shots per day should be perfectly fine right?

I like the Cremina too. Simple and elegant and I love the retro looks. But $5k+ for such a machine is a bit hard to swallow. And I get the feeling most of it goes to the branding and reputation.

Sent from Samsung SM-N910G using GAGT

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

@tiger
The problem you've mentioned with overheating due to multiple back to back shots, is usually in a commercial setting, which the strega or L1 are not designed for is it not? For home users who normally pull 2-3 shots per day should be perfectly fine right?

I like the Cremina too. Simple and elegant and I love the retro looks. But $5k+ for such a machine is a bit hard to swallow. And I get the feeling most of it goes to the branding and reputation.

Sent from Samsung SM-N910G using GAGT

Let me clarify a bit. L1 and Strega are both using commercial groups. The overheating problem will happen to any lever machine using a dipper design whether its a commercial group or not, inc the pavoni, creminas, L1s, but of course much less problematic for the commercial groups. Dipper design relies on the mass of the group to cool the boiling water that is exiting out of the dipper tube to suitable brewing temps before pulling the shot.

Some commercial machines solves this problem by using a hybrid dipper design. but this will need a warming flush cos water that enters the group now is cooled too quickly by a cool group.

That is why the 1st shot from a cremina (or any dipper design) can be too cold if you pull the shot within 12 mins after turning on the machine. need to heat the group first by flushing or half pumps.

Not so much the strega cos its using HX design. The water that goes into the group is only initially super hot during the initial flushing of the hx but not after that. The group is kept hot using their heater cartridges. if not the group will run too cold during a shot. But temp management is more complex for this esp in home environment because of the hx.

This is why there is no point using a pid controlled boiler on a lever machine. the final water temp is too much affected by the state of the group.

For home use they are definitely ok. can pull many shots per day esp if you space them out or cool the group with a cool towel. but there will be temp variations if you do your shots quickly back to back. They will get hotter and hotter....

Yup I agree the cremina is overpriced haha. But if its gonna last me for decades like the current crop of vintage creminas in the market then i guess can still stomach it lah. Sexiness and nostalgia costs money....

For retroness i think the elektra looks more cool. have not had a chance to see it in the flesh but there is a local rep here for the electra microcasa.

 

[CTBR]

So expensive for a 50g roaster
Ikawa Home Coffee Roaster Kickstarter

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

So expensive for a 50g roaster
Ikawa Home Coffee Roaster Kickstarter

hmmm...price is not too shabby actually. 250g hot top is about 1k plus. only problem is that its really tiny output. 50g is really small....have to roast 5 times to get what you get from buying a packet of beans from outside. maybe its good for sample roasts?

 

[CTBR]

hmmm...price is not too shabby actually. 250g hot top is about 1k plus. only problem is that its really tiny output. 50g is really small....have to roast 5 times to get what you get from buying a packet of beans from outside. maybe its good for sample roasts?

It's around 1k sgd for a 50g sample roaster, that's expensive in my books. By the way, did you ship over the sensory lab beans or you bought them in australia yourself?

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

It's around 1k sgd for a 50g sample roaster, that's expensive in my books. By the way, did you ship over the sensory lab beans or you bought them in australia yourself?

True...wonder whats would be the lifespan of such a roaster since it has to be used very frequently with such a small throughput.

sensory lab shipped from aus. $30 sgd for shipping of 2 bags. but it arrived within a few days. i think its cheaper to ship from UK with from hasbean or square mile but takes longer to arrive.

I think i'll just explore local roasters for the time being. have not tired yahava or tiny roaster yet.

I tried some geisha beans from bettr barista and its really good. Works fine with espresso if you are used to lighter roasted stuff. Powerful aromas of flowers, jackfruit, and brown sugar i feel. The natural processed one has milk chocolate aromas too. taste wise is sweet and creamy. Some acidity here but not overpowering.

http://shop.bettrbarista.com/coffee

 

[derazor]

@tiger
The problem you've mentioned with overheating due to multiple back to back shots, is usually in a commercial setting, which the strega or L1 are not designed for is it not? For home users who normally pull 2-3 shots per day should be perfectly fine right?

I like the Cremina too. Simple and elegant and I love the retro looks. But $5k+ for such a machine is a bit hard to swallow. And I get the feeling most of it goes to the branding and reputation.

Sent from Samsung SM-N910G using GAGT

How is your roasting ? Any cheap but good machine that can start it off ? Small foot print ? Able to roast at least 200g each time ? Unattended ? Easy cleaning ?

 

[Sylar22]

Anybody ordered the ROK grinder and is still waiting

 

[CTBR]

Anybody ordered the ROK grinder and is still waiting

Isn't delivery date May 2015? Why you so kiasu

 

[Sylar22]

Isn't delivery date May 2015? Why you so kiasu

They gave a statement saying it's gonna drag into june and my grinder gonna give way liao , don't know can tahan till then not hahaha

 

[patryn33]

They gave a statement saying it's gonna drag into june and my grinder gonna give way liao , don't know can tahan till then not hahaha

delay is not uncommon.
if broke U have to tahan for a while.

 

[Oolong Tea]

What is the difference between a roaster and a normal coffee machine?

 

[Sylar22]

delay is not uncommon.
if broke U have to tahan for a while.

Haha then like that have to use teeth to grind liao

 

[patryn33]

What is the difference between a roaster and a normal coffee machine?

What is a normal coffee machine?

 

[chikyblink]

How is your roasting ? Any cheap but good machine that can start it off ? Small foot print ? Able to roast at least 200g each time ? Unattended ? Easy cleaning ?

Its been great. Trying out the manual functions and how they affect the end product. Also, I tried roasting some raw peanuts. Turned out a little too dark but still good. Made peanut butter with it.

You want cheap ones can do a little research on Freshroast SR500/SR700. Very small footprint. Its basically a highly modified popper imo. I think it can roast up to 130gm, not too sure.

You want at least 200gm? Then its either Behmor or Genecafe.
Roasting coffee is potentially a fire hazard. You want unattended, do it at your own risk.

For easy cleaning, no matter which roaster, a vacuum cleaner is a must imo.