Intel ARC series GPU (Over 40% perf/$ vs Nvidia)

[Phen8210]

If intel want to establish a footprint in the GPU market, they need to target high end performance range of at least RTX 4070 and above because that's where the value proposition starts being a concern.

For example, the difference in price between 4080 and 4090 is big, which is the main area of concern for those looking to upgrade, if they can fill the gaps in the market then we have something to talk about.

The current midrange GPU in the market is already good value, and its what most people use and can afford comfortably, why would they buy an A580 from a bottom barrel GPU maker like intel? Intel evaluation is 90B today, AMD 211B, and the big Nvidia is > 3T, and the quality of their products speak for itself.

If intel can't even identify the market gaps and play their part, then they really deserve to stay at the bottom.

NO OFFENSE because nobody even asked for better value in midrange segment, most concern regarding value is at the high end range.

 

[final1]

The B580 might appeal to a small group of budget gamers who care about raw performance, but most people still don’t trust Intel when it comes to GPU.

Pricing the B580 lower than competitors is a smart move, but without better reliability, software, drivers, and features, it’s hard to see it becoming popular or even make a dent in the market.

Corrected for you.

 

[Asphodeli]

Midrange GPU is already good value, and its what most people use and can afford comfortably, why would they buy an A580 from a bottom barrel GPU maker like intel?

Well currently its a choice between a 4060 @ 8GB at $300+ USD vs $250 USD for a B580 @ 12GB $250 USD. It's quite a no-brainer to go with Intel for an extra 4GB of RAM and $50 cheaper?

 

[final1]

Well currently its a choice between a 4060 @ 8GB at $300+ USD vs $250 USD for a B580 @ 12GB $250 USD. It's quite a no-brainer to go with Intel for an extra 4GB of RAM and $50 cheaper?

at this price point, it will sell for the performance-value and dearth of new graphics card launches since 2022.
SUPER series i don't really count.
At this price point, the consumers are very price sensitive. $50 is huge. That's 20% of $250. These consumers just want to game and pay the least amount of money. The B580 gets them 1440p and 60fps quite consistently.
Intel drivers have improved tremendously since the alchemist series.

They are not looking at playing at 4k, max settings, ray tracing on and 120 FPS.

But, i repeat, i dont know how intel makes money on this at $250.

 

[Asphodeli]

at this price point, it will sell for the performance-value and dearth of new graphics card launches since 2022.
SUPER series i don't really count.
At this price point, the consumers are very price sensitive. $50 is huge. That's 20% of $250. These consumers just want to game and pay the least amount of money. The B580 gets them 1440p and 60fps quite consistently.
Intel drivers have improved tremendously since the alchemist series.

They are not looking at playing at 4k, max settings, ray tracing on and 120 FPS.

But, i repeat, i dont know how intel makes money on this at $250.

Yes agree, especially the last point. Definitely not profitable, but its not an uncommon biz strategy, assuming INTC follows it.

This reminds me of the time Apple M1 MacBook Air launched at a dirt cheap price, and I bought one immediately since its their first move away from x86.
I'm not surprised at the performance though, given its an ARM chip, it fails horribly in more compute-intensive apps/games (excluding video encode/decode).
However for the 80% of the userbase who just use it for office work, casual web browsing and occasional video encoding, that M1 chip performs remarkably well.
1 year later the M2 MacBooks were launched, and holy cow the price increase was insane!

 

[iceblendedchoc]

Jensen can stop 4060 production or decrease price to fight this

 

[philips107]

at this price point, it will sell for the performance-value and dearth of new graphics card launches since 2022.
SUPER series i don't really count.
At this price point, the consumers are very price sensitive. $50 is huge. That's 20% of $250. These consumers just want to game and pay the least amount of money. The B580 gets them 1440p and 60fps quite consistently.
Intel drivers have improved tremendously since the alchemist series.

They are not looking at playing at 4k, max settings, ray tracing on and 120 FPS.

But, i repeat, i dont know how intel makes money on this at $250.

Perhaps Nvidia and AMD are making huge profits on their $300 cards and Intel is just contend to make less in order to gain market share?

 

[Phen8210]

Well currently its a choice between a 4060 @ 8GB at $300+ USD vs $250 USD for a B580 @ 12GB $250 USD. It's quite a no-brainer to go with Intel for an extra 4GB of RAM and $50 cheaper?

Is $50 that big of a deal when you are getting an Nvidia GPU which is going to be more robust in all aspects than compared to intel.

Intel GPU had better value when it come to raw performance but the track record show that alone will not matter much in the mid range segment because its still generally affordable for most people. In other words, people don't mind paying slightly more for an Nvidia GPU as long as they can afford it.

This is why I wrote about how they should be filling in the gaps in the market that can create a larger impact in the GPU market, because if the gap is like few hundred dollar then that's something to consider.

 

[Phen8210]

Jensen can stop 4060 production or decrease price to fight this

They wont even have to fight, intel always trying to compete in value at the segment that doesn't really matter.

Just look steam survey GPU usage.. the entirety of intel arc series makes up only 0.2% which already prove that people generally dont care about getting some discounts at those mid range segments.

The reason why the top GPU are all Nvidia up to 4070 is because the price to that point is generally OK, and that point onwards AMD starts to come into play but they also aren't exactly doing a good job.

I know the creator out there yada yada making the A580 sound like its going to kill off nvidia midrange, but intel already did the same thing last time with other gpu and if look at the data shown.. their gpu likely will not cause a dent in the market.

 

[iceblendedchoc]

They wont even have to fight, intel always trying to compete in value at the segment that doesn't really matter.

Just look steam survey GPU usage.. the entirety of intel arc series makes up only 0.2% which already prove that people generally dont care about getting some discounts at those mid range segments.

The reason why the top GPU are all Nvidia up to 4070 is because the price to that point is generally OK, and that point onwards AMD starts to come into play but they also aren't exactly doing a good job.

I know the creator out there yada yada making the A580 sound like its going to kill off nvidia lol, but intel already did the same thing last time with other gpu and if look at the data shown.. it tells a completely different story.

Nvidia want to corner everything so they are rushing to churn out 5070 to fight 8800xt

 

[Phen8210]

Nvidia want to corner everything so they are rushing to churn out 5070 to fight 8800xt

The GPU market really gone out of hand. Nvidia is such a force to be reckon with that at current state their competitors have like 20x-30x less resource to compete with them.

That's why AMD go anywhere also keep screaming "AI" in desperate attempt to catch up.

I don't even want to start talking about intel.. their situation seem hopeless

 

[final1]

Perhaps Nvidia and AMD are making huge profits on their $300 cards and Intel is just contend to make less in order to gain market share?

please see what i wrote earlier on the die size of the B580 vs 4060.
The die size is not relevant to the consumer.
But, it is relevant to intel and nvidia respectively. It directly reflects the cost of production of the GPU.

To put it simply, if we say that the B580 matches the 4060 in performance, we are saying that intel needed a chip much larger (and more expensive to make at TSMC) than nvidia's in order for them to deliver the same level of performance with their architecture versus a 2022 nvidia design.

I want to give intel its due though. Intel hasn't really output a really good product since, let's say, 12th gen intel processors. Alchemist GPU was also not great at launch and had lots of driver issues.

But, with the battlemage B580 at US$250 (250 x 1.35 x 1.09 = S$368+), i want to say that they have done a good job and put out a good product at a nice price for the low-middle end of the GPU market. The driver issues are pretty much resolved too.

 

[NightRaven49]

Is $50 that big of a deal when you are getting an Nvidia GPU which is going to be more robust in all aspects than compared to intel.

i dont think a 15% deficit in raster performance and 50% in vram capacity allows the 4060 to qualify as """more robust in all aspects""". even in raytracing, the b580 is closer to the 4060 than the rx7600 and in certain titles like cp2077 (!) the b580 comes out on top. all that while saving 15% the cost mind u, thats like what local sales look like nowdays (best case) but this is a permanent price undercut.

 

[final1]

i dont think a 15% deficit in raster performance and 50% in vram capacity allows the 4060 to qualify as """more robust in all aspects""". even in raytracing, the b580 is closer to the 4060 than the rx7600 and in certain titles like cp2077 (!) the b580 comes out on top. all that while saving 15% the cost mind u, thats like what local sales look like nowdays (best case) but this is a permanent price undercut.

B580 sold out at newegg.
amazon usa only has b580s that are well over msrp.
I think the sales reception for the new card is pretty good.
But, don't know how many b580s intel had actually prepared for launch. Was it a token launch and sold out or one with ample stock and sold out at newegg?

Carousel has 1 legit seller for the card in Singapore (S$389) as i had mentioned.
I think they will be able to sell through this first Dec shipment easily as more people become aware of the card.

 

[watzup_ken]

If intel want to establish a footprint in the GPU market, they need to target high end performance range of at least RTX 4070 and above because that's where the value proposition starts being a concern.

For example, the difference in price between 4080 and 4090 is big, which is the main area of concern for those looking to upgrade, if they can fill the gaps in the market then we have something to talk about.

The current midrange GPU in the market is already good value, and its what most people use and can afford comfortably, why would they buy an A580 from a bottom barrel GPU maker like intel? Intel evaluation is 90B today, AMD 211B, and the big Nvidia is > 3T, and the quality of their products speak for itself.

If intel can't even identify the market gaps and play their part, then they really deserve to stay at the bottom.

NO OFFENSE because nobody even asked for better value in midrange segment, most concern regarding value is at the high end range.

Is it really necessary to have a RTX 4070 for most? I don't think so actually. From memory, Steam data is reflecting more RTX 4060 users than 4070. I think I would prefer a RTX 4070 only because its got more VRAM and more memory bandwidth than a RTX 4060. If Intel is checking the boxes in terms of VRAM limit, reasonable performance, and features, I don't see why people will prefer the RTX 4060 or 4070 series. The RTX 4070 obviously performs better, but at a significantly higher cost. Nvidia will very deliberately gimp their cards to make their higher tier cards look more attractive.

 

[koreanlover]

please see what i wrote earlier on the die size of the B580 vs 4060.
The die size is not relevant to the consumer.
But, it is relevant to intel and nvidia respectively. It directly reflects the cost of production of the GPU.

To put it simply, if we say that the B580 matches the 4060 in performance, we are saying that intel needed a chip much larger (and more expensive to make at TSMC) than nvidia's in order for them to deliver the same level of performance with their architecture versus a 2022 nvidia design.

I want to give intel its due though. Intel hasn't really output a really good product since, let's say, 12th gen intel processors. Alchemist GPU was also not great at launch and had lots of driver issues.

But, with the battlemage B580 at US$250 (250 x 1.35 x 1.09 = S$368+), i want to say that they have done a good job and put out a good product at a nice price for the low-middle end of the GPU market. The driver issues are pretty much resolved too.

They say drivers still not good?

https://www.pcgamer.com/hardware/graphics-cards/intel-arc-b580-review/

 

[final1]

They say drivers still not good?

https://www.pcgamer.com/hardware/graphics-cards/intel-arc-b580-review/

I prefer hardcore tech people who do hardcore testing to tell me what it is about.

 

[watzup_ken]

B580 sold out at newegg.
amazon usa only has b580s that are well over msrp.
I think the sales reception for the new card is pretty good.
But, don't know how many b580s intel had actually prepared for launch. Was it a token launch and sold out or one with ample stock and sold out at newegg?

Carousel has 1 legit seller for the card in Singapore (S$389) as i had mentioned.
I think they will be able to sell through this first Dec shipment easily as more people become aware of the card.

I don't think there's a good volume on sale. Intel will surely take it slow after their Arc Alchemist launch so that they don't overproduce. But with a good demand, I think they may increase supply.

 

[final1]

They say drivers still not good?

https://www.pcgamer.com/hardware/graphics-cards/intel-arc-b580-review/

Quote from the article:
"If it were merely a case of the card not performing as well in some games and easily out-pacing the competition in others that wouldn't be such an issue, I'd take the cost savings and enjoy the hell out of a great new budget GPU. But it's not, it's a case of not knowing whether the card will even boot a given game. For the short time I've been given to test the card ahead of launch and ahead of the holiday season, I've not had the chance to just chuck a ton of different games at the Arc B580 to see how widespread these failures are. But my anecdotal evidence isn't painting a particularly positive picture."

Takeaways from the article:
(1) Outright admit he didn't test it much ---> so how can you give a fair review?
(2) uses the word "anecdotal". Definition of anecdotal: "based on or consisting of reports or observations of usually unscientific observers"

So, didn't test it much. "Anecdotal" opinion to make his decision. And, he comes up with 65 / 100.
That was honestly a crap review from an unserious 'tech' website.

I want to be fair to intel and fair to nvidia and fair to amd.

Gamers nexus is a hardcore tech channel. So, i would give them more credibility and more inclined to believe their analysis.

 

[Phen8210]

Is it really necessary to have a RTX 4070 for most? I don't think so actually. From memory, Steam data is reflecting more RTX 4060 users than 4070. I think I would prefer a RTX 4070 only because its got more VRAM and more memory bandwidth than a RTX 4060.

I'm not saying its necessary, the higher performance price bracket has really bad value proposition because Nvidia is dominating the entire segment. That's the area which need more competition.

If Intel is checking the boxes in terms of VRAM limit, reasonable performance, and features, I don't see why people will prefer the RTX 4060 or 4070 series. The RTX 4070 obviously performs better, but at a significantly higher cost. Nvidia will very deliberately gimp their cards to make their higher tier cards look more attractive.

How long has it been since arc release? Already 2 years only occupy 0.2% of GPU so it still hasn't made a dent in the market at all. Intel is going down this value proposition appeal in that certain performance bracket that nobody really cares about except a few. There's no result to be seen going down this route again.

Nvidia will very deliberately gimp their cards to make their higher tier cards look more attractive.

And this is why I propose that intel needs to fill the market gap in that segment instead of competing on low/mid end territory, because its that area which consumers are seeing a problem, not whether if they can afford a $250 or $300 card.