jogging and motivation thread

Kuudere

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Can rest well knowing that he managed to achieve the WR without pacers.


Can I ask you all a question ?

Let say today I ran 11km n my legs are sore now, is it okay to rest for a day n then run a 5km ?

Cause my previous week I ran 15km n I never run till today cause my legs and body are so aches.
Can rest for the day, and run the 5km in the evening, I do that after long run sometimes. Effectively, get almost 2 days of recovery.
If you know how to use the PMC chart, or the ctl/atl/tsb chart, you will be able to taper with some metrics as a guide. If you start now, you can get a feel how ctl rises along with tsb dropping as you input your ATL(workouts)
and the key to a successful tapering is to bring the tsb to above race ready number while trying your best to mitigate the drop of CTL. The input is your ATL, i.e. your daily workout TRIMP. So if you start monitoring these numbers now, you will get a feel how you ATL affects the CTL and TSB.
I use runalyze and I know that TSB should be in the positive range going into marathon race week. Since I have 3 additional weeks to play around even after completing the 18 weeks plan, I intend to take 1 additional week to taper. So instead of going from 71k > 51k > race week, I am thinking of 71k > 61k > 51k > race week.

As for the other 2 additional weeks, I am thinking of taking it easy the week after Income Eco Run + the week after 10k time trial. So, as not to over exert myself too hard.

This week should be ok, next week should be tougher. But should still be ok.

The most important thing is to keep my paces conservative. If I don't keep it conservative, I will struggle for sure.
Yeah.....great, i am interested to know coz for me that time when i started it, it was mainly pogo jumps first, then i tried a period of jumping rope single leg for fun, and then finally the box/depth jumps, and then even modified it to be more quality/fast manner coz i leanrt it works better if focussed on quality rather than quantity (not an exercise to be spammed out).
Injury prevention over a longer time would also be a bonus, at least in theory.....not that i'd also have anything to confirm that it really does scientifically prevent anything, as usual with these things as it's usually not a single sole change that we'd have changed. Just wing it and hope for the best. 🤣
It's hard to say how it will work out for me. If I really have no time, then I willn't do it. I try to do it once a week though.
 

Whispers

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plan to go for the marathon this year end, with timing.
a lot depends on injuries, life other events, etc
but no more excuses this time, just go out there and run.

bought a garmin and the stats r really detailed. not fussing over it but need like to seek advice.

Base building
planned this phase till June, then a 20 week plan for marathon in Dec.
a lot of slow running, 7:30 - 9:00/km. HR at lowest is 144bpm. mostly keep to 15x (Z3). Max HR is 195. 14x bpm is just fast walking to me once the HR is up.

- cadence
cadence >170 leads to high HR. advice?
low cadence, longer ground contact times, but not like HR lowers by a lot. dilemma here.

- low cadence, shorter strides (0..9m)
strained my right calf for a bit, anyway to feel/gauge that glutes is activated for running then mainly just the calves?

- Z2 training
for watch tracking, mainly Z3 now. but i use nose breathing and the ability to sing as my gauge for Z2. at least still feel like its jogging than just a fast walk.

min of 8km per run, 2-4 times a week. mileage of 30km+ per week for now.

i enjoy my runs, but want to make the training effective/efficient as well and shoot for a goal.

any advice appreciated. Thanks!
 

WussRedXLi

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Can I ask you all a question ?

Let say today I ran 11km n my legs are sore now, is it okay to rest for a day n then run a 5km ?

Cause my previous week I ran 15km n I never run till today cause my legs and body are so aches.

Bro, I think for your age, best to let it rest more coz of the slower recovery rate for soreness, till you are largely not sore......probably that would be the day after (1 more day). My experience and from what i read best is 72 hrs for muscular soreness. You go hoot another run session sooner rather than later, is just walking backwards in progress. But that does not mean you cannot do things like brisk walking.....the thing is not to further overload your muscles.

edit - 1 more thing, if the DOMs is really terok, it just might take more than that 72 hrs, coz the more painful type of DOMs above a certain threshold is more like a muscular injury rather than just plain old DOMs. It's hard to explain but those really training in strength/calisthenics esp trying out new stuff would know. For eg, one has already been training pull ups for 1 year, super consistent fella, literally never stopped training just normal deloading here and there. But just by changing from the old supinated grip to now a pronated grip, but same old training pattern, might introduce some rather painful DOMs taking more than 72hrs.....but should be quite ok if didnt overpushed (ie ego).
You might get this type after say 2 weeks of non-training .....then you try to hoot how you previously trained before.

Pain and soreness = muscle fibres damage. The body is first prioritizing resources to repair the muscles first, after which then would it then divert resources in building fitness and all those juicy stuff you are after.......so it's gonna take longer than usual compared to your prev experiences.



Actually, also best is to spread out the load. Dont hoot 11k 15km "1 shot" and then in between nothing....or something like that, in between long bout of rest. Better for your fitness also.....in cycling channels i saw 1 video showing studies about some detraining with this type of training, Weekend warriors, go hoot > 200 km over the weekend be it 1 day or both Sat/Sun, so the weekly mileage actually not bad, end up fitness still lose to those who have like 2 session in the middle of the week in addition to the 2 longer weekend sessions (but total duration same), be it raw power or endurance.

BTW you also sleeping n eating well right? Celiac ok?
 
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Jeremy1

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Bro, I think for your age, best to let it rest more coz of the slower recovery rate for soreness, till you are largely not sore......probably that would be the day after (1 more day). My experience and from what i read best is 72 hrs for muscular soreness. You go hoot another run session sooner rather than later, is just walking backwards in progress. But that does not mean you cannot do things like brisk walking.....the thing is not to further overload your muscles.

edit - 1 more thing, if the DOMs is really terok, it just might take more than that 72 hrs, coz the more painful type of DOMs above a certain threshold is more like a muscular injury rather than just plain old DOMs. It's hard to explain but those really training in strength/calisthenics esp trying out new stuff would know.
You might get this type after say 2 weeks of non-training .....then you try to hoot how you previously trained before.

Pain and soreness = muscle fibres damage. The body is first prioritizing resources to repair the muscles first, after which then would it then divert resources in building fitness and all those juicy stuff you are after.......so it's gonna take longer than usual compared to your prev experiences.


Actually, also best is to spread out the load. Dont hoot 11k 15km "1 shot" and then in between nothing....or something like that, in between long bout of rest. Better for your fitness also.....in cycling channels i saw 1 video showing studies about some detraining with this type of training, Weekend warriors, go hoot > 200 km over the weekend be it 1 day or both Sat/Sun, so the weekly mileage actually not bad, end up fitness still lose to those who have like 2 session in the middle of the week in addition to the 2 longer weekend sessions (but total duration same), be it raw power or endurance.

BTW you also sleeping n eating well right? Celiac ok?

Sleeping n eating no problem.

Just that after the long run, both legs sore, no pain n the whole body ache.

Like need more days to recover.
 

WussRedXLi

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plan to go for the marathon this year end, with timing.
a lot depends on injuries, life other events, etc
but no more excuses this time, just go out there and run.

bought a garmin and the stats r really detailed. not fussing over it but need like to seek advice.

Base building
planned this phase till June, then a 20 week plan for marathon in Dec.
a lot of slow running, 7:30 - 9:00/km. HR at lowest is 144bpm. mostly keep to 15x (Z3). Max HR is 195. 14x bpm is just fast walking to me once the HR is up.

- cadence
cadence >170 leads to high HR. advice?
low cadence, longer ground contact times, but not like HR lowers by a lot. dilemma here.

- low cadence, shorter strides (0..9m)
strained my right calf for a bit, anyway to feel/gauge that glutes is activated for running then mainly just the calves?

- Z2 training
for watch tracking, mainly Z3 now. but i use nose breathing and the ability to sing as my gauge for Z2. at least still feel like its jogging than just a fast walk.

min of 8km per run, 2-4 times a week. mileage of 30km+ per week for now.

i enjoy my runs, but want to make the training effective/efficient as well and shoot for a goal.

any advice appreciated. Thanks!

With your new watch now, may i also know what is your resting heart rate on your watch now in office with AC? Of coz relax, dont look at it after your 1hr VC call with your customers or vendors or meeting with your superiors. lol 🤣

if it is comfortably over 70 (even in the 80s range) and assuming you are below age 40, together with ......this year end early Dec do enjoy the SCSM and have a light goal like sub 6:00h and finish smiling, not those folks who run FM and next few days take MC liao.
Then next year hoot again with solid A, B and C goals. Better not to rush, main thing is to be consistent and be able to adopt to this new lifestyle of consistentcy/routine/discipline/whatever term you wanna *insert* here......also based on what your current HR vs paces that you've mentioned. No need to rush.
So that with this new lifestyle and aerobic base, you next year can aim for more goals, be it a faster marathon or even do some speedier events in the 5k 10k range.

Then also need to set your zones correctly with your new watch.
 
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Ender

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plan to go for the marathon this year end, with timing.
a lot depends on injuries, life other events, etc
but no more excuses this time, just go out there and run.

bought a garmin and the stats r really detailed. not fussing over it but need like to seek advice.

Base building
planned this phase till June, then a 20 week plan for marathon in Dec.
a lot of slow running, 7:30 - 9:00/km. HR at lowest is 144bpm. mostly keep to 15x (Z3). Max HR is 195. 14x bpm is just fast walking to me once the HR is up.

- cadence
cadence >170 leads to high HR. advice?
low cadence, longer ground contact times, but not like HR lowers by a lot. dilemma here.

- low cadence, shorter strides (0..9m)
strained my right calf for a bit, anyway to feel/gauge that glutes is activated for running then mainly just the calves?

- Z2 training
for watch tracking, mainly Z3 now. but i use nose breathing and the ability to sing as my gauge for Z2. at least still feel like its jogging than just a fast walk.

min of 8km per run, 2-4 times a week. mileage of 30km+ per week for now.

i enjoy my runs, but want to make the training effective/efficient as well and shoot for a goal.

any advice appreciated. Thanks!
Sounds like a plan.. If you can run 30km and coping well, Don't think you need to worry much about any metrics. COz even if you were truly in z3, but you are coping. The idea of Z2 is to allow athletes with high volume to achieve the high mileage and while keeping up with the quality session like interval and long runs. So their easy days are kept to Z2 so they can meet their >80km per week. For your 30km, let it be whatever zone as long as you are coping and not constantly searching online how to recover for this and that.

Cadence, you gait will change when you base is built with adaptation. Wouldn't bother with that either. But that's me.
 

WussRedXLi

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Bro just repped out 27 unbroken reps of 2:10 800s.
(just checked, our girls NR is 2:07.4 , unbroken since 1976 so that's 50 years liao)

Lets see how close he can get to 2:00 in London.

 

Ender

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Sleeping n eating no problem.

Just that after the long run, both legs sore, no pain n the whole body ache.

Like need more days to recover.
Once you rest and recover... my suggestion for your next run, be consistent (3 or 4 days aweek) and with lower load to spread out. You have more weekly mileage. I notice you always do one solid long run, and then rest for a long time. Even during injury. You lose the gain from that 15km due to the long break, as you need too much time to recover. You notice most athletes, even after a challenging race when their body is significantly damaged, at most is rest one days, go for their mojo (questionable) cold bath or massage, the idea is to get back to training recovery asap. and not loiter too much on down time. Even NEAT activities are beneficial to recovery.
 
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WussRedXLi

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Wah this still standing 800m women's record (2:07.4) quite power in our history books. Seems to be our longest still standing record of 50 years.


https://www.singaporeolympics.com/c...in-south-east-asia-but-conquered-a-continent/

Chee Swee Lee – the track queen who lost in Southeast Asia but conquered a continent​

cheesweelee5-768x512.png




It was exactly the mid-way point of the 400m lap as Chee Swee Lee hurtled down her lane at the 1974 Asian Games, all four of her limbs pumping furiously.

Each powerful stride of her legs rapidly propelled her forward as she relentlessly pounded the surface, every forceful swing of her arms generating added momentum.

With 200m to go, she knew that she was on track for a good time. Endless rounds of training runs had calibrated her to judge her pace and exact position with pin-point accuracy.

The sprinter was so focused that she was momentarily deaf, despite the cheers of a few thousand spectators in the Azadi Stadium on that cool autumn day in Tehran, Iran.

“I couldn’t hear anything around me,” she recalled of that day 45 years later. “It was just pure silence, pure focus.”

It is a race that the 64-year old has repeatedly played over in her mind for over four decades – a race that saw her set a blistering time of 55.08 seconds as she powered towards an Asiad gold. History was made as she became the first Singaporean woman to achieve the feat at the Asian Games, setting a new Games and national record in the process.

For 43 years, no one could surpass Chee’s timing in the 400m. It was one of Singapore’s longest-standing record in an Olympic sport, until Dipna Lim-Prasad finally eclipsed it in 2017. Another of her national records, the 800m which she set in 1976, still stands to this day.

Chee’s record breaking run was a special one. In typical races, she would usually put on the afterburners in the last 100m. But in Iran’s capital city, she had altered her race strategy after consulting Israeli athlete Hana Shezifi – the then defending Asian Games champion in the 800m and 1500m.

Shezifi had advised her to burst early because of the unique set up of the Azadi track, where the curves were unusually long, and its straights conversely short.

On a conventional track, Chee would usually make the final push just before the bend straightens. But the longer curve meant she would have to go into overdrive earlier.

So with 150m to go, she decided to open up ahead of the rest of the pack. Her legs would have to fight the dreadful burn of lactic acid longer, and there was a risk of petering out before her opponents did.

But months of gruelling speed endurance training had prepared her exactly for this moment. At full flight, she gradually powered ahead of the rest of her seven competitors.

“I’m making my move and I’m realising that I’m catching up with everybody. There’s nobody around me in the last 50 metres – that’s how I won the gold medal,” she said.

CheeSweeLee2.png


For Chee, the biggest victory of her athletics career was also a redemption of sorts. The motivation to win in Iran had stemmed from bitter disappointment.

Almost exactly a year before, she had missed out on gold at the 1973 Southeast Asian Peninsula (SEAP) Games on home soil in Singapore, after finishing with two silvers in the 400m and 800m events.

A disappointed Chee reassessed her objective with her long-time coach, Patrick Zehnder, and decided to dream even bigger. Their next target: An Asiad gold.

The aim seemed overly ambitious – Chee had not succeeded in even being the best in Southeast Asia, but she was now looking to conquer the entire continent. It was a seemingly ludicrous goal.

But the SEAP Games setback had only further fuelled her determination to succeed, and she was quietly confident. “By not having won the gold medal in Singapore, I was training very hard and taking myself to the next level.

“We had analysed the whole race, and now knew why I didn’t win. Training was now geared towards being stronger, better, and to win,” she said. From then on, every moment of her life was now geared towards that sole purpose.

Chee, who was then working at the Singapore Sports Council, would only have 10 minutes to eat lunch. The rest of her break was spent on circuit training in the gym. When work ended, there was only one place to head to – the track. But she did not see these as “sacrifices”, but “choices” instead.

To build up her stamina and speed endurance on the track, she would engage in draining interval trainings of 400m sprints for up to 10 times, with only a minute’s rest in between. Gruelling 10km runs, to hone her distance running, were also a staple element.

“I think these kinds of training not only gave us the physical strength, but the mental capacity to handle the toughest of environments,” she explained.

A year later, Chee was ready for Iran, and Asia. The girl who lost out on two SEAP golds was no more. In her place instead was an athlete trained to the peak of her powers and hell-bent on completing her “mission” – to strike gold.

And she duly delivered in Tehran as she officially become Asia’s fastest female one-lap runner.

“It was the most fantastic feeling standing on the rostrum and listening to Majulah Singapura. That gold medal wasn’t only mine, it was Singapore’s,” she said shakily, the excitement of the moment still evident in her voice more than four decades later. “Mission accomplished.”

Chee was not the only Singapore track star who experienced success in Iran. On the whole, Singapore Athletics experienced one of its best showings at an Asian Games, hauling in a gold, a silver and two bronzes. Besides her then-record breaking run, the men’s 4x400m national record is also another mark set in Iran that stands to this day.

​

Records are made to be broken​

Today, Chee has since relocated to the United States, where she has married an American and established a career as a real estate agent. But her legacy still lives on in Singapore through her achievements and records set.

Her 400m record has since fallen, but her 800m mark of 2:07.4 still stands. She reckons, however, that it will also be eradicated soon.

“It is a great honour to still be holding a record today,” she said. “But do not doubt for a second that it is going to be there forever. There is probably another little 10-year-old girl out there, training like I did, who will one day break that record, and records are made to be broken. I think with Singapore’s emphasis on youth sports development, that person will come sooner than 43 years.

“It’s time for such an athlete to emerge. We have the facilities, we have the coaching, we just have to have the mindset that we’re willing to do that.”
 

WussRedXLi

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Insane pace.

Seems like this Lisbon HM is not a fast course and there were some headwind in some parts. Proves that his previous 56m is definitely possible, just not ratified. But he is currently doing FM training and not specific HM training......so all factors considered 57:20 is "slow" for him, so lets see how he runs in London next month.
 

Tudo88

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Sounds like a plan.. If you can run 30km and coping well, Don't think you need to worry much about any metrics. COz even if you were truly in z3, but you are coping. The idea of Z2 is to allow athletes with high volume to achieve the high mileage and while keeping up with the quality session like interval and long runs. So their easy days are kept to Z2 so they can meet their >80km per week. For your 30km, let it be whatever zone as long as you are coping and not constantly searching online how to recover for this and that.

Cadence, you gait will change when you base is built with adaptation. Wouldn't bother with that either. But that's me.
Actually don’t need to worry about the zones la. Most people will get it wrong also unless you go get it tested. Just trust your own body loh.

Rule of thumb is your easy should feel easy. Don’t lie to yourself can already haha. Like some people said their 160-170 HR is easy for them, I just laugh silently in my heart.
 

Kuudere

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Actually don’t need to worry about the zones la. Most people will get it wrong also unless you go get it tested. Just trust your own body loh.

Rule of thumb is your easy should feel easy. Don’t lie to yourself can already haha. Like some people said their 160-170 HR is easy for them, I just laugh silently in my heart.
I have a friend who is more aerobically inclined compared to his leg strength. So he runs his easy pace in the low 4 min/km pace since it doesn’t feel tough, but end up sustaining a lot of leg injuries.

Also, the higher the training volume, the slower my average pace is. I am averaging in the mid 5.3x min/km during marathon block compared to low 5.00 min/km during half marathon block. Helps me to recover faster for the next run.
 

Tudo88

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I have a friend who is more aerobically inclined compared to his leg strength. So he runs his easy pace in the low 4 min/km pace since it doesn’t feel tough, but end up sustaining a lot of leg injuries.

Also, the higher the training volume, the slower my average pace is. I am averaging in the mid 5.3x min/km during marathon block compared to low 5.00 min/km during half marathon block. Helps me to recover faster for the next run.
Some people run their easy runs too “slow” when they go get tested. So that’s counterproductive as well.

Actually running don’t need to get too technical. You want technicality, it’s best to go get tested. Then you will have your accurate zones. If not, I will advise to just run by feel. Easy should feel easy, likewise for your threshold and intervals.
 

Ender

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Some people run their easy runs too “slow” when they go get tested. So that’s counterproductive as well.

Actually running don’t need to get too technical. You want technicality, it’s best to go get tested. Then you will have your accurate zones. If not, I will advise to just run by feel. Easy should feel easy, likewise for your threshold and intervals.c
Check out Steve Magness youtube. I rate him as one of rare but real technical coach you can find on Youtube. Despite that, he also emphasize to go by RPE, and not to worry if about HR getting inside the grey zones. Important is the volume, and get some (not all) of the workout to be in the race pace.

even for lab test, I also have doubt on the pace. Now tread mill are notoriously known out of calibration. Unless the lab is some ISO certified lab where by best practice they have to calibrate their equipment's at least once a year, so I don't trust when it comes to pace like LT1/2 pace, vVo2max. But the LTHR and Vo2max will be accurate though coz they are independent of the treadmill.
 
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Tudo88

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Check out Steve Magness youtube. I rate him as one of rare but real technical coach you can find on Youtube. Despite that, he also emphasize to go by RPE, and not to worry if about HR getting inside the grey zones. Important is the volume, and get some (not all) of the workout to be in the race pace.

Not even test, I also have doubt on the pace. Now tread mill are notoriously known out of calibration. Unless the lab is some ISO certified lab where by best practice they have to calibrate their equipment's at least once a year, so I don't trust when it comes to pace like LT1/2 pace, vVo2max. But the LTHR and Vo2max will be accurate though coz they are independent of the treadmill.
Yeah RPE is the way to go for recreational runners like us.

To me, the important thing is your easy runs since most of the times, you will be running easy aka 80/20.
 

Whispers

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With your new watch now, may i also know what is your resting heart rate on your watch now in office with AC? Of coz relax, dont look at it after your 1hr VC call with your customers or vendors or meeting with your superiors. lol 🤣

if it is comfortably over 70 (even in the 80s range) and assuming you are below age 40, together with ......this year end early Dec do enjoy the SCSM and have a light goal like sub 6:00h and finish smiling, not those folks who run FM and next few days take MC liao.
Then next year hoot again with solid A, B and C goals. Better not to rush, main thing is to be consistent and be able to adopt to this new lifestyle of consistentcy/routine/discipline/whatever term you wanna *insert* here......also based on what your current HR vs paces that you've mentioned. No need to rush.
So that with this new lifestyle and aerobic base, you next year can aim for more goals, be it a faster marathon or even do some speedier events in the 5k 10k range.

Then also need to set your zones correctly with your new watch.

resting HR from Garmin app is 52. sleeping HR is between 52-60 in recent 4 weeks. early 40s.

how to set zones correctly on the watch? any youtube links?
i noticed the watch will update the lactate threshold when i run hard, max HR is between 193-195.

yah the lifestyle is pretty packed, i.e. if u follow strictly the trainings and rest, there is little to no room for friends gathering, sleep late, OT at work, etc...if u train 4-5 days, 10km run will take about 65-75mins, then add in the long run, i find that most of personal time is spent on the road. the hours are manageable now, but only because its still early in the work year...
 
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