jogging and motivation thread

[WussRedXLi]

The interesting thing about 5k o ......is that it is actually sorta like a 2,4 IPPT test but of coz folks do not attempt 2.4s recreationally but 5k is probably the next best accessible and tried benchmark. If you need some pushing and pacing, just try the parkruns.

That is one ballpark figure regarding VO2max, but no need to rely on lab tests or our watches which is kinda there but not totally accurate.

I mean, not meaning to be a pessimistic pax, but if you are an adult esp a young adult, there is something to worry about if you cannot manage 6 min pace esp if it is of a shorter distance than 5k.
Or in 2.4 IPPT speak, a timing of 13:30 or 5:41min/km pace.
3k distance maybe about 5:50 pace.
This is assuming that your lactate clearance is not super screwed up ie your legs are not feeling jelly at 6 min pace (limiting factor is your heart and lungs)

5K time as a benchmark​

Dr. Peter Attia put this into perspective in a podcast with Dr. Rangan Chatterjee with a clear, striking example.

What he said was, if you’re 37 and the fastest you can run a 5k is 30 minutes (roughly 10 minutes per mile), you’ll have a hard time walking briskly up a flight of stairs at age 75.

Your VO2max simply isn’t high enough.

Most people would consider running 10-minute miles as being reasonably fit. But Dr. Attia says you should be running a 21 or a 22-minute 5k at age 37 instead, which is…

It made me think, “I really need to start training for this.”

 

[WussRedXLi]

@Lchlch

Can try this for training kicks

 

[Shawny88]

Li Ning Red Hare 8pro is having sales at Singpost Centre currently, selling at $75. Still more expensive than TB and I dun find the design and colours available nice looking…

 

[WussRedXLi]

The interesting thing about 5k o ......is that it is actually sorta like a 2,4 IPPT test but of coz folks do not attempt 2.4s recreationally but 5k is probably the next best accessible and tried benchmark. If you need some pushing and pacing, just try the parkruns.

That is one ballpark figure regarding VO2max, but no need to rely on lab tests or our watches which is kinda there but not totally accurate.

I mean, not meaning to be a pessimistic pax, but if you are an adult esp a young adult, there is something to worry about if you cannot manage 6 min pace esp if it is of a shorter distance than 5k.
Or in 2.4 IPPT speak, a timing of 13:30 or 5:41min/km pace.
3k distance maybe about 5:50 pace.
This is assuming that your lactate clearance is not super screwed up ie your legs are not feeling jelly at 6 min pace (limiting factor is your heart and lungs)

5K time as a benchmark​

Dr. Peter Attia put this into perspective in a podcast with Dr. Rangan Chatterjee with a clear, striking example.


Your VO2max simply isn’t high enough.

Most people would consider running 10-minute miles as being reasonably fit. But Dr. Attia says you should be running a 21 or a 22-minute 5k at age 37 instead, which is…

It made me think, “I really need to start training for this.”

Bonus

Age group and paces for 5k...think this is worldwide poll percentile or something.

If you are in the novice camp (and above), you are golden as far as VO2max for old age is concerned..... keep it up

 

[WussRedXLi]

Might be useful......

Whole club with 300 over members no injuries one, year after year.

 

[WussRedXLi]

 

[WussRedXLi]

@xllms bro



Do watch the vid above regarding single leg calf raises. It wont cut it unless you really load it up.
Basket, that probably also means i had been somewhat wasting time, even if i load it up till 40kg single bent leg.
The fella in the vid loading it to 120kg double leg, bent knee ver so that the soleus is being trained more.
Unfortunately that needs access to a gym, something that i cannot afford to do.

The standard double legged versions that you see runners usually doing in PCNs definitely no way of cutting it. Just wasting time and energy and placebo effect.

Luckily plyometrics do help, coz of shock impact loading in which the kgf is much higher. Pogos, rope skipping - single leg of coz. Also as per yesterday's post, jump squats and drop jumps are scientifically proven.


I believe the same goes to other stuff like clamshells for glute medius. He mentioned in the vid that it is not so good but that is the typical clamshell with no bands. So you really really need to load it up with resistance bands and do it close to failure and progress up if one really wants to reap true benefits.


Edit - Important disclaimer. As usual, when you are introducing plyometrics, this is a new stimulus and hence you must progressively load up. No short cuts, quality over quantity so do practice on form first. There is quite the injury risk here, but once consistently done and progressed, i am very sure it helps with preventing running injuries significantly....which is the indirect benefit aiding consistency (watch the ironman training vid regarding tortoise vs hare esp true for older athletes) but such indirect benefits are not sexy of coz.
This is esp true in reality where run training in a structured week we amateurs do make mistakes.

 

[WussRedXLi]

@greganikin7003​

4 days ago
Core training program on college athletes… it may improve. One thing that improves running economy is a heavy weigh low reps fast momentum movement or plyometrics. That’s it. It has been done for decades! Russian athletes back in 70s been doing it explosion way. Those glutes medius exercise with your own weight are absolutely meaningless. If you want to run long and fast - you have to train right way and tun a lot. Even Jacob Engebrigsten runs 180 km per week even though he’s mostly 1500-5000 m runner. Keep it in mind and yea he’s doing strength training but heavy with a low reps like 2x6.

 

[WussRedXLi]

Same

No bodyweight squats. But 80% of 1RM

 

[kkkkdllmkkkk]

Li Ning Red Hare 8pro is having sales at Singpost Centre currently, selling at $75. Still more expensive than TB and I dun find the design and colours available nice looking…

not bad price leh... tb now got those older colours at SG$55 before shipping...

 

[xllms]

@xllms bro



Do watch the vid above regarding single leg calf raises. It wont cut it unless you really load it up.
Basket, that probably also means i had been somewhat wasting time, even if i load it up till 40kg single bent leg.
The fella in the vid loading it to 120kg double leg, bent knee ver so that the soleus is being trained more.
Unfortunately that needs access to a gym, something that i cannot afford to do.

The standard double legged versions that you see runners usually doing in PCNs definitely no way of cutting it. Just wasting time and energy and placebo effect.

Luckily plyometrics do help, coz of shock impact loading in which the kgf is much higher. Pogos, rope skipping - single leg of coz. Also as per yesterday's post, jump squats and drop jumps are scientifically proven.


I believe the same goes to other stuff like clamshells for glute medius. He mentioned in the vid that it is not so good but that is the typical clamshell with no bands. So you really really need to load it up with resistance bands and do it close to failure and progress up if one really wants to reap true benefits.


Edit - Important disclaimer. As usual, when you are introducing plyometrics, this is a new stimulus and hence you must progressively load up. No short cuts, quality over quantity so do practice on form first. There is quite the injury risk here, but once consistently done and progressed, i am very sure it helps with preventing running injuries significantly....which is the indirect benefit aiding consistency (watch the ironman training vid regarding tortoise vs hare esp true for older athletes) but such indirect benefits are not sexy of coz.
This is esp true in reality where run training in a structured week we amateurs do make mistakes.

means i need to put some heavy books in my backpack and do these at home

 

[WussRedXLi]

means i need to put some heavy books in my backpack and do these at home

Maybe very heavy seated single calf raises might be the only/best option for strength training...but doing it at home needs a lot of weights. Bent leg standing version with any weights or bands in the hand, it loads the quads a lot as well, and might give up before the calves do if you really load it up.
That is why they place the weights at the top part of the knees. Or in your case weighted vest/backpacks, plus some bands or free weights in the hands. Still, will really load up the quads, so standing with knees bent at 45-90 deg really no joke, 20 deg probably more practical. But then, if you can tahan 45-90 deg, that means you have strong quads also even if it is isometric. (concentric contraction > isometric contraction > eccentric contraction )

Another good option is to go to gym machines but that requires gym membership.
End of the day, really need to load it up.

Really no easy solution. Can only and mainly rely on certain plyometrics - at least that part is scientifically proven to improve timings.

 

[GlassDoor]

interested in bmai jingtan 3 or 3T. From what I have gathered, they run half to one size big. Meaning I should buy half size smaller?
also will they work for 6-6.30" easy pace z2 runs? looking to add a plated shoe into my rotation for longer runs.
My usual rotations are multiple pairs of adidas SL2 with a mix of adio 9 and boston 12. 8km daily runs at around 6.30" pace z2. longer run 12k-16k

p.s. apologies for the double posting from another thread. as this question may be more appropriate here.

 

[WussRedXLi]

means i need to put some heavy books in my backpack and do these at home

One possible and not too bad solution is get 2 pcs of such vests ... you are in china so cheaper. Can get 1 vest first and further progress to 2nd one later.
31 sgd for 15kg. You might use 2 and stack to get 30kg. Single leg, then use resistance bands for 2 hands and plus another 20 to 25kg. Single leg also can improve mobility/balance.

SG is around 40sgd for a 10kg one on shopee, so 80 dollars for 20kg (2 vests stacked). More ex than what you can do in China via TB. TB direct sea ship to SG not cheap also.

Useful for other things like dips, push ups, pull ups. Maybe even running. Basically is like running slight uphill lah but you can uphill for 3km, 5km, 21km also can.

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?abbucket=14&id=644409897858&mi_id=aAFV5ctKpBqNFuf2ECMML_H6Q_awMqsT6TWeVenwrwk9ZGQRFjR-9uNgHH8pFDc-_S-VzQVbfss4-NVpCgo_DfgmWjGLyeP3NmYLJ0jIsfY&ns=1&priceTId=2150451717557471189807280e1a99&skuId=4672005425886&spm=a21n57.imgsearch.item.3&utparam={"aplus_abtest":"fe5febdb20fe566d250fb2c18aaca56a"}&xxc=taobaoSearch

 

[kkkkdllmkkkk]

interested in bmai jingtan 3 or 3T. From what I have gathered, they run half to one size big. Meaning I should buy half size smaller?
also will they work for 6-6.30" easy pace z2 runs? looking to add a plated shoe into my rotation for longer runs.
My usual rotations are multiple pairs of adidas SL2 with a mix of adio 9 and boston 12. 8km daily runs at around 6.30" pace z2. longer run 12k-16k

p.s. apologies for the double posting from another thread. as this question may be more appropriate here.

@xllms for you to answer lol

u can go panggu running at kallang wave mall to try slow jog inside the shop

 

[xllms]

Maybe very heavy seated single calf raises might be the only/best option for strength training...but doing it at home needs a lot of weights. Bent leg standing version with any weights or bands in the hand, it loads the quads a lot as well, and might give up before the calves do if you really load it up.
That is why they place the weights at the top part of the knees. Or in your case weighted vest/backpacks, plus some bands or free weights in the hands. Still, will really load up the quads, so standing with knees bent at 45-90 deg really no joke, 20 deg probably more practical. But then, if you can tahan 45-90 deg, that means you have strong quads also even if it is isometric. (concentric contraction > isometric contraction > eccentric contraction )

Another good option is to go to gym machines but that requires gym membership.
End of the day, really need to load it up.

Really no easy solution. Can only and mainly rely on certain plyometrics - at least that part is scientifically proven to improve timings.

old liao and almost sedentary lifestyle between 25-45 have wasted all the foundation i have build up in my teenage years. won't expect too much on my quads.
initially thought with your advice can search for weight straps on thighs but apparently no such stuffs, only have weight straps on calfs, ankles and body vest. Only option is perhaps body vest which is less bulky than using a backpack filled with stuffs. Of cos, backpack option no need to spend money

 

[xllms]

@xllms for you to answer lol

u can go panggu running at kallang wave mall to try slow jog inside the shop

my usual size is 40.5. For 3.0turbo, i have tried both 40 & 40.5, 40.5 without insole is most comfortable for me. Can add bmai's insole but it will be slightly tight, esp for my left feet. So i recommend to get usual size if don't add insole.
adding insole will make the shoe even bouncier and less stable. Am someone who prefers firmer yet responsive midsoles for stability.
Since its available at panggu running @ kallang wave mall, go try it before deciding.

 

[xllms]

Maybe very heavy seated single calf raises might be the only/best option for strength training...but doing it at home needs a lot of weights. Bent leg standing version with any weights or bands in the hand, it loads the quads a lot as well, and might give up before the calves do if you really load it up.
That is why they place the weights at the top part of the knees. Or in your case weighted vest/backpacks, plus some bands or free weights in the hands. Still, will really load up the quads, so standing with knees bent at 45-90 deg really no joke, 20 deg probably more practical. But then, if you can tahan 45-90 deg, that means you have strong quads also even if it is isometric. (concentric contraction > isometric contraction > eccentric contraction )

Another good option is to go to gym machines but that requires gym membership.
End of the day, really need to load it up.

Really no easy solution. Can only and mainly rely on certain plyometrics - at least that part is scientifically proven to improve timings.

wish i had all these guidance/advices when i was in sec sch. pretty sure i would have gone under 11.5s for 100m & below 55s in 400m with all these training.

 

[WussRedXLi]

old liao and almost sedentary lifestyle between 25-45 have wasted all the foundation i have build up in my teenage years. won't expect too much on my quads.
initially thought with your advice can search for weight straps on thighs but apparently no such stuffs, only have weight straps on calfs, ankles and body vest. Only option is perhaps body vest which is less bulky than using a backpack filled with stuffs. Of cos, backpack option no need to spend money

Yes, 2023 and prior......I also no strength and conditioning. Also neglected things. I was already racewalking since covid 2020 and then ran in late 2022, but the upper body really skinny like bamboo. My relatives all shocked at my physique, yes performance wise i pretty decent, but they scared i have "internal problems". I was like 173cm and as light as 55-56 kg range then.

But if done consistently, 1-2 years period can already see very good gains if done consistently.....no need for off seasons at our level if you can help it. But my feel is that it it needs to be very slowly progressed up at our ages. No need to have off seasons but need to have that "enjoy it" mindset.
Now i am around 68kg. My running times like not radically different also. (in fact my 3k timings got decent improvements but it might be due to specific shorter distance trainings rather than 2023 and prior in which i focussed more towards 10k region).

Backpack + weights or bands on the band is fine, provided your back muscles are sufficiently strong. If not also risky. Really need to be careful and slowly progress up (can also use lower reps like 1-2 and mix with unweighted, before slowly adding up).


Just anyhow quick google, found one specific to strength. 3.62% improvement to 5k TT. Also done on subjects not much different to most of us. That is around 60 seconds for a 27 min. Not as much as the 2 plus minutes for plyo jump squat/drop jumps, not sure if these 2 can be added and we just call it 3 mins possible.
A higher % would come from higher mileages, structured training via running of coz, but i think no real harm real S&C if you have plateaued already due to whatever reasons. Like for me, i cannot run long distance one, so if you tell me 2 to 3hr runs, i cannot do. But i can long distance cycle, so better than nothing even tho less specificity. Adding in strength and conditioning no brainer for both running + cycling, which both needs.


Main note : test subjects ascertained 1RM first, then trained 4-8 reps with 80% of 1RM. But i think for us no need to know 1RM, just hoot 8 reps till close to failure (1 to 2 reps before failure) can liao. Doing 50-100 reps is probably not the way to train, but still once in a blue moon is a fun way to play around lah, eg 100 push ups.
You can do to failure as well, or even drop sets ie fail liao then regress weight/resistance and hoot again till you fail again, but those quite advanced and needs to be able to tahan suffering.

ps note. 6 weeks only....nothing fancy. The plyo study i posted earlier was 8 weeks.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...ic_Running_Distance_and_5-km_Race_Performance

 

[xllms]

Yes, 2023 and prior......I also no strength and conditioning. Also neglected things. I was already walking since covid 2020 and then ran in 2023, but the upper body really skinny like bamboo. My relatives all shocked at my physique, yes performance wise i pretty decent, but they scared i have "internal problems". I was like 173cm and as light as 55-56 kg range then.

But if done consistently, 1-2 years period can already see very good gains if done consistently.....no need for off seasons at our level if you can help it. But my feel is that it it needs to be very slowly progressed up at our ages. No need to have off seasons but need to have that "enjoy it" mindset.
Now i am around 68kg. My running times like not radically different also. (in fact my 3k timings got decent improvements but it might be due to specific shorter distance trainings rather than 2023 and prior in which i focussed more towards 10k region).

Backpack + weights or bands on the band is fine, provided your back muscles are sufficiently strong. If not also risky. Really need to be careful and slowly progress up (can also use lower reps like 1-2 and mix with unweighted, before slowly adding up).


Just anyhow quick google, found one specific to strength. 3.62% improvement to 5k TT. Also done on subjects not much different to most of us. That is around 60 seconds for a 27 min. Not as much as the 2 plus minutes for plyo jump squat/drop jumps, not sure if these 2 can be added and we just call it 3 mins possible.
A higher % would come from higher mileages, structured training via running of coz, but i think no real harm real S&C if you have plateaued already due to whatever reasons. Like for me, i cannot run long distance one, so if you tell me 2 to 3hr runs, i cannot do. But i can long distance cycle, so better than nothing even tho less specificity. Adding in strength and conditioning no brainer for both running + cycling, which both needs.


Main note : test subjects ascertained 1RM first, then trained 4-8 reps with 80% of 1RM. But i think for us no need to know 1RM, just hoot 8 reps till close to failure (1 to 2 reps before failure) can liao. Doing 50-100 reps is probably not the way to train, but still once in a blue moon is a fun way to play around lah, eg 100 push ups.
You can do to failure as well, or even drop sets ie fail liao then regress weight/resistance and hoot again till you fail again, but those quite advanced and needs to be able to tahan suffering.

ps note. 6 weeks only....nothing fancy. The plyo study i posted earlier was 8 weeks.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...ic_Running_Distance_and_5-km_Race_Performance

thanks for sharing. you are a good role model to keep me going and don't slack

besides all these training and conditioning, i also need to loose weight... 171cm @ 73-76kg now. Need to cut down to approx. 65-68kg, less burden on my legs