learning japanese

[dimitri_can]

what search term did you use?

 

[Ah_keong]

Tests are not difficult PROVIDED you do your revision on everything taught, plus from time to time, there will be short practise tests which are similar to the actual thing for you to gauge what's your performance. Of course, as always, there are people who fail, those that score full marks, and the rest of us that fall in between.

Lessons are on a NEED TO KNOW basis, means at every level they limit the number of words & grammar enough for you to string sentences together and master completely, and at every higher level, they will then add words / grammar accordingly. Not quite like the conventional method most schools teach languages.

Vocabulary is minimised, grammar emphasized, I realised some that join Bunka halfway ( by taking qualifying test ) will think that they don't teach vocabulary. They do teach but only enough for you to maximise using the grammar but thing is why teach us vocabulary when we can learn from a dictionary ourselves ? Where is the value add ?

Anyone can learn that anywhere, but only a Japanese sensei can shows us how they actually use the grammar in Japan ( different meanings by adding 1 or minus 1 word / different meanings for the same sentence under different situations ), or would you rather spend extra 50-60 dollars per course elsewhere only because other schools teach you more vocabuary ?

For me, Bunka cost the least ( saves me the most money ) , takes the least time ( out of every school I checked / 8 weeks at Bunka is the shortest ), every sensei has to follow a fixed method to impart lessons. So even if the sensei himself / herself is below average, the method of teaching basically makes sure that you should be able to at least pass the test if you study the content often.

It's because of this school that I think JLPT2 ( 1st attempt ) is within reach this year, otherwise I will probably be stuck like my friend in another school ( we attended the same basic Japanese class together last Aug ), now he's going for JLPT4 ( 1st attempt also ) this year.

Yes. Please ask them to go to Bunka ! Let me know if you want a list of sensei's names that received good feedback before they sign up.

thanks for the advice and time...

can i have the list while i explain to my friends how Bunka is like...

 

[sweet_vanilla]

what search term did you use?

under the JLPT one

 

[dimitri_can]

You should use 日本語能力試験

http://www.bk1.jp/keywordSearchResu...1BD597DDCF=KVjCDwYFBd5AQFv1G3vxbQoAAADz3RcC:1

if you do clever searches, you would be able to find good books not just related to JLPT, but also good books on Japanese language.

 

[Adventia]

azumangadaioh

On JLPT2
Note that the transition from JLPT3 to 2 involves a huge addition of vocabulary and grammar points.
In addition to that,passage reading.You need to read passages at a decent speed with comprehension.
From what i have read from analysis reports,they are increasing the reading speed requirement.

On Grammar and Vocabulary


I believe that most schools would focus on grammar rather than on vocabulary.
Since grammar is the foundation that is required to glue everything together.
But,there are also certain queries about vocabulary that only a native can offer help on.
For eg,the origin of the word,why is the word used this way,special Japanese words,possible slangs and so on
Relying too much on explanations from dictionaries and you are bound to miss out certain things.
However,i dont think a sensei needs to go through a list of 30-40 words per lesson also.Selective,selective.(unless its for pronunciation practice)

Listening and conversation

I believe conversation can only effectively cover the need for deliberate listening practice if you are talking in Japanese daily over a range of topics.
Listening to Jpop,jp radio,podcast and watching anime,J drama etc would also help.
But the internalization process will still be slower than conversation.

 

[dimitri_can]

For everyone's benefit, let me copy and paste the info from the JLPT website on the requirements.

Level 1
高度(こうど)の文法・漢字(ぶんぽう かんじ)（2,000字程度(じていど)）・語彙(ごい)
（10,000語程度(ごていど)）を習得(しゅうとく)し、社会生活(しゃかいせいかつ)を
する上(うえ)で必要(ひつよう)な、総合的(そうごうてき)な日本語能力(にほんごのうりょく)
（日本語(にほんご)を900時間程度学習(じかんていどがくしゅう)したレベル）
The examinee has mastered grammar to a high level, knows around 2,000 kanji and 10,000 words, and has an integrated command of the language sufficient for life in Japanese society. This level is normally reached after studying Japanese for around 900 hours.


Level 2
やや高度(こうど)の文法(ぶんぽう)・漢字(かんじ)（1,000字程度(じていど)）・語彙(ごい)（6,000語程度(ごていど)）を習得(しゅうとく)し、一般的(いっぱんてき)なことがらについて、会話(かいわ)ができ、読(よ)み書(か)きできる能力(のうりょく)
（日本語(にほんご)を600時間程度学習(じかんていどがくしゅう)し､中級日本語(ちゅうきゅうにほんご)
コースを修了(しゅうりょう)したレベル）
The examinee has mastered grammar to a relatively high level, knows around 1,000 kanji and 6,000 words, and has the ability to converse, read, and write about matters of a general nature. This level is normally reached after studying Japanese for around 600 hours and after completion of an intermediate course.


Level 3
基本的(きほんてき)な文法ぶんぽう)・漢字(かんじ)（300字程度(じていど)）・語彙(ごい)（1,500語程度(ごていど)）を習得(しゅうとく)し、日常生活(にちじょうせいかつ)に役立(やくだ)つ会話(かいわ)ができ、簡単(かんたん)な文章(ぶんしょう)が読(よ)み書(か)きできる能力(のうりょく)
（日本語(にほんご)を300時間程度学習(じかんていどがくしゅう)し、初級日本語(しょきゅうにほんご)コースを修了(しゅうりょう)したレベル）

The examinee has mastered grammar to a limited level, knows around 300 kanji and 1,500 words, has the ability to take part in everyday conversation and read and write simple sentences. This level is normally reached after studying Japanese for around 300 hours and after completion of an elementary course.


Level 4
初歩的(しょほてき)な文法(ぶんぽう)・漢字(かんじ)（100字程度(じていど))・語彙(ごい)（800語程度(ごていど))を習得(しゅうとく)し、簡単(かんたん)な会話(かいわ)ができ、平易(へいい)な文(ぶん)、又(また)は短(みじか)い文章(ぶんしょう)が読(よ)み書(か)きできる能力(のうりょく)
（日本語(にほんご)を150時間程度学習(じかんていどがくしゅう)し、初級(しょきゅう)日本語(にほんご)
コース前半(ぜんはん)を修了(しゅうりょう)したレベル）

The examinee has mastered the basic elements of grammar, knows around 100 kanji and 800 words, has the ability to engage in simple conversation and read and write short, simple sentences. This level is normally reached after studying Japanese for around 150 hours and after completion of the first half of an elementary course.

 

[dimitri_can]

New criteria of N system

In the past there have been requests for revisions to address the fact that examinees who have passed the Level 3 test often have trouble with passing the Level 2 test because of the large gap in those two levels, as well as to address the need to measure abilities more advanced than those targeted by the current Level 1 test. In fact, advances in Japanese-language education and societal changes have produced a more diverse range of needs among examinees than existed when the test was introduced. To better address such needs, the test levels will be revised and a 5-level format will be established to replace the current 4-level format.

The existing test incorporates 4 levels, or kyu: 1-kyu (Level 1), 2-kyu (Level 2), 3-kyu (Level 3), and 4-kyu (Level 4), in descending order. The new test will have 5 levels: N1, N2, N3, N4, and N5; the “N” may stand for both “Nihongo” and “New.”
N1: Approximately the same passing level as the existing Level 1 test, but designed to enable slightly more advanced abilities to be measured as well.
N2: Approximately the same passing level as the existing Level 2 test.
N3: Positioned at a level bridging existing Level 2 and Level 3 tests.
N4: Approximately the same passing level as the existing Level 3 test.
N5: Approximately the same passing level as the existing Level 4 test.

Test sections
There will be a Reading Test (yomu shiken) and a Listening Test (kiku shiken). The former will incorporate the Writing-Vocabulary and Reading-Grammar sections of the existing tests, while the latter will take the place of the Listening section of the existing tests.

 

[sweet_vanilla]

New criteria of N system

In the past there have been requests for revisions to address the fact that examinees who have passed the Level 3 test often have trouble with passing the Level 2 test because of the large gap in those two levels, as well as to address the need to measure abilities more advanced than those targeted by the current Level 1 test. In fact, advances in Japanese-language education and societal changes have produced a more diverse range of needs among examinees than existed when the test was introduced. To better address such needs, the test levels will be revised and a 5-level format will be established to replace the current 4-level format.

The existing test incorporates 4 levels, or kyu: 1-kyu (Level 1), 2-kyu (Level 2), 3-kyu (Level 3), and 4-kyu (Level 4), in descending order. The new test will have 5 levels: N1, N2, N3, N4, and N5; the “N” may stand for both “Nihongo” and “New.”
N1: Approximately the same passing level as the existing Level 1 test, but designed to enable slightly more advanced abilities to be measured as well.
N2: Approximately the same passing level as the existing Level 2 test.
N3: Positioned at a level bridging existing Level 2 and Level 3 tests.
N4: Approximately the same passing level as the existing Level 3 test.
N5: Approximately the same passing level as the existing Level 4 test.

Test sections
There will be a Reading Test (yomu shiken) and a Listening Test (kiku shiken). The former will incorporate the Writing-Vocabulary and Reading-Grammar sections of the existing tests, while the latter will take the place of the Listening section of the existing tests.

thanks dimitri-san for the info.
btw, i cant the book on N1. pls advise.

 

[dimitri_can]

Just pm me with your MSN. I'll give u the details. Thanks

 

[sweet_vanilla]

Just pm me with your MSN. I'll give u the details. Thanks

msn is x.evelynx@hotmail.com, but am currently not on MSN.
Office blocks MSN.

 

[azumangadaioh]

I agree with azumanga daioh's analogy of grammar being the structure and vocabulary being the bricks which together are necessary to build a house. But however i also think that grammar should come first before vocabulary, just as erecting the supporting structure of a house comes naturally before the laying of bricks.

It is true that vocab without grammar is useless and the same goes for the opposite. But given the fact that grammar is pretty much limited in number and very flexible in its usage whereas vocabulary is very very vast and easy to forget, i would say build up a good foundation of grammar first and worry about vocab later.

My 2 cents.

Your words more or less sums up my current circumstances.

Since time is in short supply for the coming JLPT, I am currently focusing on strengthening grammar first, since vocabulary is like the endless oceans, furthermore, I do not have the benefit of most people on this forum, having started learning years earlier compared to me ( still new to the game ). Therefore, there will be compromises, things prioritised, sacrifices made. Quality will definitely be down on my learning curve in certain areas, I believe most will have to cut some *short term* corners in my situation, after all, once the exam is over, I will have plenty of time to patch my *corners* back...

 

[azumangadaioh]

azumangadaioh

Relying too much on explanations from dictionaries and you are bound to miss out certain things.
However,i dont think a sensei needs to go through a list of 30-40 words per lesson also.Selective,selective.(unless its for pronunciation practice)

Thank you for the info !

I took everything you mentioned into consideration last year before decided to jump into *learning Japanese seriously* mode, otherwise I don't think I have the drive to keep taking placements in rapid succession last year, many sleepless nights, not to mention living from pay check to pay check just to pay for my current individual classes.

Dictionaries are mentioned for the sake of those starting out, since some people reading here may just be dipping toes, not too sure what is what. They are good for standard meanings, particularly if you need to finish your homework and translation exercises quickly, saves you time to learn other stuff. After a certain point in learning, like what Adventia mentioned, you will need a sensei to explain the slangs and commonly used words not found in dictionaries on a higher learning level. But for beginners, don't really have to think about that much and just enjoy the ride.

What I meant about *list of 30-40 words per lesson* was back at cambridge, the sensei will really expect us to know the previous lessons' vocabulary already, but she never failed to be disappointed everytime ( especially me and some others )...

In 2 months, once the registration opens, if my skills are not up to scratch in time for Dec, will probably go for Level3 first.

 

[azumangadaioh]

thanks for the advice and time...

can i have the list while i explain to my friends how Bunka is like...

Haha no problem, but maybe perhaps you can post your email address here or pm me, since I don't think it's nice to post the list here..

 

[Ah_keong]

Haha no problem, but maybe perhaps you can post your email address here or pm me, since I don't think it's nice to post the list here..

thanks for the help!

 

[dimitri_can]

In 2 months, once the registration opens, if my skills are not up to scratch in time for Dec, will probably go for Level3 first.

it's good that you think that way.. cos i think most imptly, it's not the certificate that's important, it's the conversation skills that is. The certificate can only give you a chance to a interview in a Japanese company, but it's your speaking skills that will help you get the job.

About 1 year back, i went to Kinokuniya to interview for a "management trainee" type of position, i was asked to actually read out a newspaper article. Believe me, that was the worse interview i had ever went to... I just embarrassed myself during that interview.

About 9-10 months later after that interview, i went for another interview with my previous certificate which was only a level 4 certificate (i didn't take level 3 at that time), i had to go through 4 interviews. 3 interviews in Singapore, 1 phone interview from Japan. 3 of them in Japanese.

I was asked to say about my hobbies, what i like about Japan, my family,etc, etc.
The worse part, i was asked to troubleshoot a computer problem in Japanese.

I was really determined to set things right and indeed i got the job. So happy to be in my company. Can get to travel to Japan

 

[zatsuki]

it's good that you think that way.. cos i think most imptly, it's not the certificate that's important, it's the conversation skills that is. The certificate can only give you a chance to a interview in a Japanese company, but it's your speaking skills that will help you get the job.

About 1 year back, i went to Kinokuniya to interview for a "management trainee" type of position, i was asked to actually read out a newspaper article. Believe me, that was the worse interview i had ever went to... I just embarrassed myself during that interview.

About 9-10 months later after that interview, i went for another interview with my previous certificate which was only a level 4 certificate (i didn't take level 3 at that time), i had to go through 4 interviews. 3 interviews in Singapore, 1 phone interview from Japan. 3 of them in Japanese.

I was asked to say about my hobbies, what i like about Japan, my family,etc, etc.
The worse part, i was asked to troubleshoot a computer problem in Japanese.

I was really determined to set things right and indeed i got the job. So happy to be in my company. Can get to travel to Japan

Hi dimitri-can,
proficiency vs certification. To me, both are equally important (but depending on the situation). looking for a job opportunity may required certificate after which the measurement of proficiency come in as well.

now i m in a rather stagnant phase...
how to further improve my vocabulary especially the ones that used during daily conversational level.

i was in a similar situation before. wanted to express myself more but lack of vocabulary power and snubbed horribly.

how did you improve your conversational skills (before getting this current job?)?
although i m attending ikoma (pre-advanced) where there is chance to speak in japanese. but i feel that that is not enough to be good at it and i m not really using that opportunity well enough (partly due to lack of vocabulary power, partly taken for granted). thanks

 

[dimitri_can]

Hi dimitri-can,
proficiency vs certification. To me, both are equally important (but depending on the situation). looking for a job opportunity may required certificate after which the measurement of proficiency come in as well.

It's good that you think this way. Heard of people who are JLPT 1 holders and can't speak? -__-"

now i m in a rather stagnant phase...
how to further improve my vocabulary especially the ones that used during daily conversational level. i was in a similar situation before. wanted to express myself more but lack of vocabulary power and snubbed horribly.

One of the problems i faced was that as i started to learn more grammar, i realised the importance of how vocabulary power is.. Now no matter how much i study, it takes like 1 mth to get 20 words into my head... after 3,4 years of studying the language. [/quote]

How to improve your vocabulary?
Good question! For me, when i was doing my JLPT 4. I forced myself to listen and read Japanese lyrics, memorize the song, do song translation with whatever resources i had (electronic dictionaries, books, etc). Slowly i found myself, unknowingly learning JLPT 2 and 3 grammar without even going through the syllabus. Then those words that i have learned, i made myself print out the lyrics, one with the furigana, one without. If you see the below, you would notice those words that are shaded, are actually words that you learn in JLPT 4. Then what i would do, i will go fill up the furigana. If i forget the furigana, i would sing the song. Slowly 1 by 1... Every week do 1-2 songs. Naturally, your vocabulary skills will build up without you knowing.

how did you improve your conversational skills (before getting this current job?)? although i m attending ikoma (pre-advanced) where there is chance to speak in japanese. but i feel that that is not enough to be good at it and i m not really using that opportunity well enough (partly due to lack of vocabulary power, partly taken for granted). thanks

IMHO, to build up your conversation skills, you need to

1. Know your grammer well
2. Form basic sentences and start repeating the same sentences over and over again, using different vocabularies. E.g


1st time: 私は会社へいきます
(Repeat 20 times, every time faster than the previous time)

2nd time: 私はホテルへいきました
(Repeat 20 times, every time faster than the previous time)

3rd time: 私は学校へいきませんでした。
(Repeat 20 times, every time faster than the previous time)

4th time: 私は日本へいきません
(Repeat 20 times, every time faster than the previous time)

Anytime you feel happy, just write a sentence out (make sure it's grammatical correct) and read it 10-20 times.

3. After you are familiar, start to write longer sentences and do the same thing again. =)

Also, a tip that a lot of people don't know, is that by listening to the JLPT exam papers (listening portion), you will learn a lot from there.

You have the "free" listening tracks, you have the script, listen and read it aloud. By yourself or with a friend. Of course, 20 times! Change the vocabulary every 5 times after you practise=p

What's the aim of doing this?

When we read aloud, our brain tends to absorb more.

Slowly, if you have the chance, go to Japan, talk to the people. Use as much Japanese as possible. In that way, you will not be "a frog in the well" but a "eagle that soars in the skys"

Good luck!!! Leaving you with Change the World by V6

Bold ones are those JLPT 3/4 vocab. Do you know the readings? If you not sure, time to revise your JLPT 3 =)
３級を合格できたでしょう？

※I WANT TO CHANGE THE WORLD
疾風を駆け抜けて
何も恐れずにいま勇気と 笑顔のカケラ抱いて
CHANGE MY MIND
情熱たやさずに
高鳴る未来へ手を伸ばせば 輝けるはずさ
IT'S WONDERLAND※

灰色の空の彼方 何か置いてきた
君は迷いながら探し続ける

君の心震えてた 明日の見えない夜
何も信じられず耳を塞ぐ

君に出逢えたとき 本当の居場所見つけた
何気ない優しさがここにあって 僕等目覚める

I WANT TO CHANGE THE WORLD
二度と迷わない
君といる未来 形どれば 何処までも跳べるさ
CHANGE MY MIND
情熱たやさずに
知らない明日へ翼ひろげ 羽ばたけるはずさ
IT'S WONDERLAND

僕等は同じ世界を泳ぎ続けてる
互いの願いへ届く日まで

みんな同じ不安抱えて 支えあえるよ
立ち止まる瞬間に見つめてるこの場所にいる

I WANT TO CHANGE THE WORLD (Find the others yourself?)
この手離さずに
見守る瞳を受け止めたら 何だって出来るはず
CHANGE MY MIND
孤独にさせない
みんなここにいる どんな事も突き抜けていこう
IT'S WONDERLAND

(※くり返し)

 

[affa14]

Wee..Had my first class at Ikoma just now. とても楽しかったです。先生はかわいいです。one question to fellow ikomas, do the senseis teach kanjis? or at least go through it? i forgot to ask my sensei juz now and no class on mon and tue .

 

[azumangadaioh]

One of the problems i faced was that as i started to learn more grammar, i realised the importance of how vocabulary power is.. Now no matter how much i study, it takes like 1 mth to get 20 words into my head... after 3,4 years of studying the language.

How to improve your vocabulary?
Good question! For me, when i was doing my JLPT 4. I forced myself to listen and read Japanese lyrics, memorize the song, do song translation with whatever resources i had (electronic dictionaries, books, etc). Slowly i found myself, unknowingly learning JLPT 2 and 3 grammar without even going through the syllabus. Then those words that i have learned, i made myself print out the lyrics, one with the furigana, one without. If you see the below, you would notice those words that are shaded, are actually words that you learn in JLPT 4. Then what i would do, i will go fill up the furigana. If i forget the furigana, i would sing the song. Slowly 1 by 1... Every week do 1-2 songs. Naturally, your vocabulary skills will build up without you knowing.


IMHO, to build up your conversation skills, you need to

1. Know your grammer well
2. Form basic sentences and start repeating the same sentences over and over again, using different vocabularies. E.g


1st time: 私は会社へいきます
(Repeat 20 times, every time faster than the previous time)

2nd time: 私はホテルへいきました
(Repeat 20 times, every time faster than the previous time)

3rd time: 私は学校へいきませんでした。
(Repeat 20 times, every time faster than the previous time)

4th time: 私は日本へいきません
(Repeat 20 times, every time faster than the previous time)

Anytime you feel happy, just write a sentence out (make sure it's grammatical correct) and read it 10-20 times.

3. After you are familiar, start to write longer sentences and do the same thing again. =)

Also, a tip that a lot of people don't know, is that by listening to the JLPT exam papers (listening portion), you will learn a lot from there.

You have the "free" listening tracks, you have the script, listen and read it aloud. By yourself or with a friend. Of course, 20 times! Change the vocabulary every 5 times after you practise=p

What's the aim of doing this?

When we read aloud, our brain tends to absorb more.

There is a software that I currently use to speed up the learning process EXACTLY how dimitri_can described, with this software, I key in the base info that I want to practise, then it will generate randomly [ or in any order the user chooses ], and ask for the answers that I had pre-inputed earlier. Not only it can be used for vocabulary, you can use it for practising kanji, grammar or any other subject that you decide to study. With this, it is possible to learn 40+ new words per week [ assuming you review them everyday ], in every possible combination of a given word that you want,
e.g.
Format: Question => Answer

Hiragana => Meaning
Hiragana => Kanji
Meaning => Hiragana
Meaning => Kanji
Kanji => Meaning
Kanji => Hiragana

So in effect a real word ( using a simple kanji learned at early levels ) can be trained as follows:

べんきょう [ ask for meaning ] => study
べんきょう [ write in kanji ] => 勉強
study [ write in Hiragana ] => べんきょう
study [ write in Kanji ] => 勉強
勉強 [ ask for meaning ] => study
勉強 [ write in Hiragana ] => べんきょう

Of course, you can vary the above to suit your needs by changing your questions to asking yourself to speak instead of writing as AUDIO recording function is available, or attach pictures, or ask something like

? 強 = べんきょう [ write missing kanji ] to train particular kanjis or hiragana
or even translation questions if you like.

Using the above will allow you to identify weaknesses in your understanding of words FAST, maybe you know the meaning and kanji but don't know how to write hiragana, or not able to recall writing particular kanji when you know the meaning and hiragana well. The software will increase the frequencies on those that are weak and review more often than those you already know well.

So the grammar technique that dimitri_can highlighted can be practised also, it is only a matter of swapping variables ( 会社 / 学校 / 日本 ) in the sentence 私は XX へいきます. All you need to do is type all these into your data set, and the program will test you and also provides statistics on your performance, accuracy and response time.

With this, 20times in 5mins is possible per set of sentence you practise, so imagine how quickly how much you gain in 1hr a day EVERYDAY...

Type ANKI on google and you can download it for free...

 

[azumangadaioh]

I would rather get a 390+ on JLPT3 instead of 240 on JLPT2, it would be demoralising if it was a borderline pass or worse, a botherline failure. Also means I wasted 1 whole year with nothing to show my senseis for all their efforts... 390+, unlikely, but seems like a nice goal to reach for...