learning japanese

[VH2006]

career prospect?? i seem to have more chances than my peers due to my japanese language proficiency.........hahaha.....

i'm wondering about the prospects from an intensive japanese language programme as well as a post-grad degree from a japanese uni. also, does the uni name matter to prospective employers in Sg or Jap?

 

[ShougunX]

hmmm, prospects from intensive japanese language programme? JLPT is good enough. Level 2 n above is more useful though. As for a post grad degree from a japanese uni...well, japan companies tend to favor their own unis unless u are from harvard/cambridge..........so in other words, with a post-grad degree from a japanese uni (heck, u dun even need the JLPT cert with a japanese uni cert since u are supposed to pass level 1 b4 the start of ur course), u stand a higher chance of attracting higher pay package n higher chances of being employed in japanese companies (especially banks/electronic MNCs) compared to local uni grads with JLPT certs onli.

Oh yes, uni name matters a lot. Tat shud be the case for most companies isn't it? Tokyo University of Technology n University of Tokyo is like 10,8000 mile apart....

 

[direbmem]

shogunx...u are jplt level 2 n above??

 

[ShougunX]

shogunx...u are jplt level 2 n above??

not realli......hahaha. goin to take 1 this yr. i've just entered the work force not too long ago now tat i'm settlin into my job, i think it's best i take it now. although frankly speaking i have no use for tat cert in my current company since i'm already handling japan accounts. But the cert may prove useful in later stages of my life...haha

 

[ender51244]

i'm wondering about the prospects from an intensive japanese language programme as well as a post-grad degree from a japanese uni. also, does the uni name matter to prospective employers in Sg or Jap?

intensive Japanese...? if you study properly, you can obtain your japanese proficiency certification in about 2 or 3 years, but you must know how to use it. this matters too, when dealing with Japanese. if you only know how to read but you don't know how to write or speak, your JLPT will become half use-less. most japanese companies need you to be able to read, write and speak well. if u get a superb job that will send you frequently to Japan, i think you will be expected to be able to speak and listen well. drafting contracts and so on will also be required.

for me, to read and understand a simple passage isn't a problem, but for me to explain it or draft out an explanation (in my own words) will be an extreme task.

as for Japanese universities, the NAME of the school do matters.... A LOT.(Japanese are conservative, remember?) of course, i mean, everywhere is the same, right ? for example... NUS and SIM - which one will you pick, if you were to be the employer ? most employers will pick NUS, in this case (no offence to SIM grads, but the world is like that). So most students will aim to go to the number 1 university in Japan, which is Tokyo University.

of course, there will be a lot of other students who will aim at the tokyo 6 universities, which is considered the prestigious top 6 universities in Tokyo.

and out of Tokyo, there also quite a lot of prestigious universities, and most of them are state universities. According to survey conducted last year, some other state universities don't fare too bad. *see survey on Top 100 Asia Pacific Universities, 2005 by Institute of Higher Education, Shanghai Jiao Tong University, China*. I know rankings doesn't really matter that much, but there are some truth in it, which i believe some employers will see it as a rough gauge. another factor also depends on... the name of the school. say Keio (for example) is well known for its Economis study, so if you graduate with Economics degree, it is highly recognisable in Japan. its same like UOL/LSE's (on campus) business degrees around the world.

For employers here, when they say "A Japanese Degree is preferred", i think it will refer to a degree that is being studied in Japanese and of course, in Japan itself. i have no idea if they prefer Japanese or not, though.

ShougunX, some universities actually allow JLPT 2 and above to be enrolled into the school. not all universities, except the stricter ones will only allow JLPT 1 certified students.

and there are japanese universities offering courses in English for undergraduates. and of course, they are only the... average schools in Japan. and for post-graduate, there are, in fact ... programs in English. Take... Keio, for example *eh... sorry (>_<)*, offers some of its post-grad programs in English. so if u dun have JLPT 1 but have outstanding results, you can still study there, though the best recommended language is still Japanese.

 

[ShougunX]

yup, wat ender said is true. When they mentioned japanese degree, it means a degree by a japanese uni regardless whether u are native japanese or not. Yes, i know some uni offer courses in english. Ritsumeikan Uni offered courses in a mixture of english n japanese (50% enrollments are non-japanese). But to me, it defeats the purpose to study in a japanese uni in english.....since top programmes are always offered in the native language. If u wanna study in english might as well take it in australia. haha.

Oh one more thing to add. Just becoz u have great proficiency in japanese doesn't mean they will send u to japan. haha. of course, the chances will be greater, but japanese companies are known to be rather stingy on the labour cost part......they can spree on their entertainment to clients (heard of dinner ranging into more than 1m yen a nite? tat happens to my company---told 2 me by my hr manager when she attended the budget meeting in tokyo 2 yrs ago), but on pay package, sadly, they can't compare to US companies...at least tat's my experience la. U may have a nicer pay package than locals initially, but on the long term...it's pretty much the same. But i'm working for the experience plus the chance to learn how japanese do their business

ender, u love Keio dun you? hahaha. Some of my colleagues in japan might hail from there for all u know haha.

 

[VH2006]

Thanks guys. I've a clearer focus now.

 

[ender51244]

yup, wat ender said is true. When they mentioned japanese degree, it means a degree by a japanese uni regardless whether u are native japanese or not. Yes, i know some uni offer courses in english. Ritsumeikan Uni offered courses in a mixture of english n japanese (50% enrollments are non-japanese). But to me, it defeats the purpose to study in a japanese uni in english.....since top programmes are always offered in the native language. If u wanna study in english might as well take it in australia. haha.

Oh one more thing to add. Just becoz u have great proficiency in japanese doesn't mean they will send u to japan. haha. of course, the chances will be greater, but japanese companies are known to be rather stingy on the labour cost part......they can spree on their entertainment to clients (heard of dinner ranging into more than 1m yen a nite? tat happens to my company---told 2 me by my hr manager when she attended the budget meeting in tokyo 2 yrs ago), but on pay package, sadly, they can't compare to US companies...at least tat's my experience la. U may have a nicer pay package then locals initially, but on the long term...it's pretty much the same. But i'm working for the experience plus the chance to learn how japanese do their business

ender, u love Keio dun you? hahaha. Some of my colleagues in japan might hail from there for all u know haha.

LOL~ yeah.. i love Keio A LOT. that's a fact. *so... u guys better get used to it?* haha~

of course, it defeats the purpose of studying english courses in Japan. i feel that too... but can't afford. haiz~ but in case there are people who do not know there are classes in English, i am just pointing it out.

and naturally, not all jobs will let you fly Japan frequently. but there are some jobs that does. and most job ads will use this point to attract job seekers, coz i always see it being underlined and in bold. haha~

good for u to be working in a Japanese company... i oso want!! but my "powers" aren't "strong" enough to be working there... hahaha~ unless i count those english-speaking jobs ? if so, i will be disliked by the Japanese. O__O

 

[ShougunX]

well, there are tons of japanese companies out there....some like hitachi is managed by singaporeans mostly, so if u r lookin at pure japanese contacts, choose other companies...haha.

my 'powers' aren't tat stong either, remember i dun have a JLPT 1 cert? But i'm lucky, my current company wasn't lookin for a japanese proficient candidate in the first place n they sort of 'chanced upon' my application. N i manage to ans the interview in japanese (ya, i'm sweating during the interview turning on my japanese hearing alert system to 101% at tat time).....so in the end i gotten the job.

N from my experience, the japanese likes to interact to u in english or even chinese instead. Just as we like to tok to them in japanese in order to polish our japanese proficiency, the opposite applies too. Especially my colleagues from japan, upon coming to singapore, to them is a great chance to polish their english (n some chinese). haha. So u may end up in a funnie situation whr i speak to them in japanese n they reply to me in english.

 

[ender51244]

hee~ yeah. looking for some job that have decent exposure to Japanese.

at least u have a JLPT 2 cert... i only have JLPT 3 and is without a degree. so its super hard to land a decent job in tat kind of company.

but its good that you get the job... i will probably use very simple Japanese and without Keigo. coz my Keigo isn't strong and i can't really interchange that well....haiz~ *needs more training*

Some japanese might be interested to interact you with english or japanese but it doesn't happen in all cases. i have friends whose Japanese bosses will speak in low tones because my friends understand a little Japanese. its sort of like... fear that you will understand what they are working.

of course, for your case, it is known that you know Japanese and is needed for part of work. but my friends is because she took a bit out of interest and tried to talk to her Japanese... and the outcome is somewhat bad.

i guess it depends on people and their thinking... but sometimes, you might need to tread carefully.

 

[ShougunX]

hmm...i have worked in 3 japanese companies b4 (ya i job jump for a while), n actualli, japanese likes to mumble in low tones for watever reasons..haha i can barely make out wat the heck they are toking during those meetings (imagine 20 over oyaji mumbling around a big table....) i came out of the meeting clueless n have to trouble my AM (singaporean who knows japanese, the 2 of us are the onli odd one outs among the 'army' of baldin japanese ojiisans) to explain to me after the exhausting 2 hrs meeting...haha. But when on the phone, they project their voice like nobody's business. I dunno but i think ur fren could be a bit too sensitive? haha.

N oh, dip is fine. Japanese dun realli care about dip or degree cos to them it's just tertiary. Although degree do open more doors (blame it on singaporean HRs if u wan haha). The job mkt shd be pretty gd nowadays. I still have offers for job openings that needs japanese skills n some are not restrictive to degree holders only. N how about attempting JLPT level 2 this yr?

Ya Keigo is the killer. I wasn't comfortable with it in the first place. but well...u get use to it. As for report writing that demands those exceptionally high usage of business keigo, i left it to my japanese boss. He knows i can't write those stuff n he wud do it himself (it's so formal i doubt a JLPT 1 or even a high sch native japanese can write)....haha.

Just to share my working experience, japanese is a bunch of effective ppl. Efficient maybe not coz due to their restrictive n conservative budget style of working with communication barrier (especially in big MNCs with lotsa ojiisan along the hierarchy....it can get pretty bureaucratic n rather frustrating if u wan some big chances....) But overall, they spot a problem, they solve it with the optimal resources (I've withness some wasteful resources n $$$ spent in solving stupid problems in a singaporean majority MNC).

 

[ender51244]

i dunno abt my friend... but if you are "not-supposed" to know Japanese, its better that you pretend not to know. haha~ so even if they bad-mouth you or something... u will know. haha~

meetings are deadly killers. next time maybe u need to bring recorder to record liao. hahaha~

for me... i plan to take my level 2 next year...coz this year is a bit too late. haha~

yup, japanese is a highly efficient and effective bunch of people. a bit scary to work with them. and there's the culture of going home early... if men go home too early, the wives will feel ashamed. so cute right, their culture.... haha

 

[direbmem]

hahah so jplt 1 is the highest level...i tot jplt 3 is highest...haahha

 

[ShougunX]

haha in my experience, if a japanese with lousy english found out that u knew japanese, they wud feel VERY relieve..n happy...haha. N it's not japanese culture to bad-mouth in front of ppl even if the language is different. it's part of social ethics tat they do not anyway. haha.

direbmem>> ya level 4 is the easiest ranging to level 1 being the hardest. N ironically, level 1 needs overall 70% pass to pass the paper whras level 4-2 onli needs to pass overall 60% pass to pass the paper. So it's like 2 notches up the difficulty level.

 

[ender51244]

similarly... i will be very happy if i hear a japanese speaking Japanese. sounds like music. =)

but there are some japanese who has changed their habits... hahaha~ my friend's Japanese supervisior will go home early (say 4.30 or 5 or 5.30) when... he is extremely angry at work, especially when someone want to frame him... and he will quietly get "eaten" and on very rare occasions, he will shoot a fiery email back.

 

[ShougunX]

Then u can speak japanese to japanese at the Hokkaido fair at tampines mall (veri ex >.<) or at meidi-ya (whr i do my monthly japanese stuff stocking...too ex, can't afford to go there too many times).

N before we delve apart from the thread's initial aim of promoting learning japanese, i'll be posting some words here n there for amateurs when i'm free.

N today, let me start the ball rolling.

慇懃無礼ーーいんぎんぶれい，in-gin-bu-re-i (i think i've posted the same term many months ago)

The first term my boss taught me; meaning hyprocritical politeness. It is to warn me not to appear too polite in my emails/reports as i may appear 'boot-licking' or hyprocritical. Not ez to strike a balance...haha. Coz we are taught to use formal keigo (敬語） in formal situation...n then now they dun wan me to be too polite????? i was stretching my head...till today, I'm still trying to find a balance being not too polite..haha.

N i beseech all japanese learners to throw in a word here n there as well. There's no way one can get to know all the vocab by him/herself. As long as u think a word/term is useful, pls post it here. Just a suggestion...haha....who object??

 

[ender51244]

hmm~

i'm thinking ne... the balance might be the 1-time Keigo change. and not to change completely.

for example ---> use "いつもお世話になっています”　instead of ”いつもお世話になっております”. since your "お世話になる” is already in Keigo form, your　”－ています” can remain in its "normal" form, so it won't make the sentence to be full of Keigo. i guess that's what ur boss meant? so for the main parts of the sentence, use Keigo and "relax" on the rest of the sentences...

eto~ for me... i will share phrases that are much more simpler. *coz i dunno difficult stuff*

"もう我慢は限界だ！" (mou gaman wa genkai da)
---> means "I have had enough !" / "I have reached my limit of tolerance"

*note: In Japanese, all sentences written uses full-stops. even questions. however, we will see all this different punctations in magazines, sms-es and so on to express emotions / sentences.

 

[ShougunX]

Actually, in practical usage, いつもお世話になります/なっています/なっております　are rather used on the same level. なっています is not commonly seen though...at least in my experience

Today's input (dun need difficult stuff, i dun know much myself..haha. useful colloquial ones?):

もう沢山　（もうたくさん）mou takusan -- meaning I've had enough!
Initial translation will render this sentence as 'already alot', n the above meaning is rendered in mostly informal speech.

 

[ender51244]

i will normally use "いつもお世話になっております" ... its more like a phrase i have gotten very used to. but my other Japanese teacher teaches me to use "いつもお世話になっています". so its dependent on oneself & situation that arises ?

my input for today:

"話はよく見えないけど..." (hanashi wa yoku mie nai kedo...)
---> means "I don't (quite) get what you mean..."
or
literally "I dun quite see what you are trying to say..."



話 means (our)conversation, or in this case, what you have said.

よく means often/frequently. but it also has a meaning of hard/difficulty, used to (do something), to do something carefully and closely (pay close attention to).

見えない means unable to see.

けど is a very special word. in most cases, it will mean "but". has the same usage as "が", but "けど" is strictly used for conversation. In this case, "けど" is something like "so..." or "and..." in a sentence. it normally leaves the sentence with a open-ended type of feeling which will prompt the other party to respond to what you have say...

so "話はよく見えないけど..." means "I don't (quite) get what you mean...(so what are you trying to say?)" and in this case, "けど" creates the effect of the hidden meaning of the sentence, which is the "so what are you trying to say?" part.



I know it sounds rather confusing... but i have tried my best to explain. anyone care to help me or correct me out ?

of course, there's a few ways to express this meaning... and i have just chosen one of which. ><.

 

[ShougunX]

hahaha ender, i think u dun have to give the full/multiple meanings for each sentence. It may confuse beginners. just give the meaning as in wat it meant in the sentence lor. Hmm...like onli 2 of us contributing leh....dun foresee this goin on for long when we encounter posting fatigue.hahaa. but u have explained very well n very precise.

いつもお世話になっております is highly used in working life coz it's a 'safe sentence'. U can't go wrong on formality in this.

けど is used in informal conversation. が is usually used in formal situation. In written form, both is ok although が is more preferred (unless, say u writting about some normal/informal stuff).