LG G6

kennyboy

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anybody using 3rd party camera apps and find that autofocus fails to work when shooting in manual mode? Opencamera and Camera FV5 both exhibit this issue

I might be trying to shoot the NDP rehearsal fireworks with the G6 and want to plan what appropriate apps to use (besides stock app)

(The reason I dont use stock app in such scenario is because stock camera app doesnt support headset shutter which is absolutely crucial for me when I cant afford to touch the screen in the midst of shooting repeated long exposures. Tried it before for new year day fireworks and half my shots had to be dumped due to blur)
Strange. I tried with one of those cheap wired selfie sticks. Works with stock camera app, auto and manual. Doesn't work with video recording, but that's not a concern for your usage scenario.
 

batboyz

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Just tried again with FV5 in low light. It couldn't even take the picture, because it couldn't focus. The issue may be related with the viewfinder which still looked very dark even though I have lowered the shutter speed, i.e., using LG cam, with the same shutter speed, the viewfinder lighted up, but not in FV5.
 

chiaRH

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Enthusiast photographer here too. Have you tried using Bluetooth shutter remote instead?

I have one but its one of those cheapo ones that come with the selfie sticks, have to see how it fares. IMO the headset shutter method seems to be more reliable in registering shutter presses.


Just tried it using FV5, auto focus looks fine to me, was just very slow and inconsistent, this may be the reason for the out of focus.

Try to 'stress test' it

Switch to full manual mode, keep the autofocus at AF while setting your manual ISO and manual shutter time. It will fail to get a focus lock. If you try to exit the app, it may crash. Happens to me on Camera FV5 and Opencamera and it happens to ALL focus modes except manual focus.

I also experimented with other apps

Proshot - when shooting full manual, tap to focus doesnt work, it focuses by itself, not necessarily on where you want it to. I really hate this app on the G6 by the way as it has one very irritating issue whereby if you launch the app while phone is in landscape mode, everything is in 90 degrees till you re-orient the phone, then it starts to follow orientation

Footej - I cant seem to find manual focus on this app. Strangely this is the one 3rd party app where AF works when shooting full manual. However it lacks LG's long exposure shutter times (it maxes out at 1s)

Manual Camera (by geeky devs studio) - 'seems' to have no issue though i cant confirm due to rare use (i dont like using camera apps that have no save-to-microSD option and this is one of them). Regardless, no headset shutter support means theres no way Im using this for fireworks anyway, even if its focusing is ok

A Better Camera - manual mode buggy as hell on G6, even worse than Proshot. When going to camera roll and attempt to go back to viewfinder, whole viewfinder is black




I guess as much as I 'kinda' like LG's cameras for their control, their camera drivers seem to be quite unfriendly to 3rd party apps. I remember in the G4, white balance control didnt work on any 3rd party app, and long exposure shutter times only available from a certain software update onwards (6+ months after launch), and even then if you shot anything exceeding 1.0s, EXIF data will fail to save the shutter speed (FYI this problem is still happening on the G6 for all 3rd party apps)

in spite of all that, the G4 was still competent enough that I brought it to three NDP rehearsals to try photographing fireworks and it was even my 1st time I ever tried fireworks
https://i.imgur.com/vFeCUrE.jpg


I dont expect the G6 to beat the G4 honestly since for long exposure, their image quality difference should almost similar and both lenses are equally fast (in fact the G4 has a bigger sensor) but I still want to try it, maybe even with the wide angle lens too, which G4 lack


Just tried again with FV5 in low light. It couldn't even take the picture, because it couldn't focus. The issue may be related with the viewfinder which still looked very dark even though I have lowered the shutter speed, i.e., using LG cam, with the same shutter speed, the viewfinder lighted up, but not in FV5.

Think it has to do with how the app renders the viewfinder

Some apps like to have their viewfinder frame rate match the shutter speed, which may be intend to give a realistic depiction of what the photo will look like, but of course when you set a long shutter time, the viewfinder will freeze as its frame rate is as slow as the shutter time.

Both FV5 and LG app avoid this trap by having their viewfinder refresh rate never go slower than a certain limit (think its around 1/10s) even if your shutter is slower than that limit.

The difference is that LG will still crank up ISO for the view finder. You can observe this in a well lit room, ISO50 and 30s shutter on the LG app gives a nearly pure white viewfinder but in FV5 you can sort of still see things.

And yea the tradeoff is that FV5 will have a super dark viewfinder as a result when you are shooting low light long exposure. It was like that for the G4 too at last year NDP rehearsal, I literally have to make the ISO as 800 so I can see the view, then I frame the shot and dial the ISO back to 50, because FV5 viewfinder was so dark (remember for fireworks theres a ND filter in front of lens so even less light goes in)


...by the way for the wide angle camera, OpenCamera is the only 3rd party app that is even able to access it. All others can't.
 
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batboyz

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Try to 'stress test' it

Switch to full manual mode, keep the autofocus at AF while setting your manual ISO and manual shutter time. It will fail to get a focus lock. If you try to exit the app, it may crash. Happens to me on Camera FV5 and Opencamera and it happens to ALL focus modes except manual focus.

No need to 'stress test' it, it already failed in very low light situation, since there was not enough light to focus. When I pressed the shutter button, it was just showing the loading/capturing icon and the app was stuck. I did change the ISO and shutter manually with auto focus. I also noticed that if it failed to focus, it also helps to point it somewhere else then point it back to the original subject. This seems to work.

Edit: touch to focus does not even work in manual mode.

I can't even load ProShot. It always says "Failed, restart camera" showing a blank viewfinder.
 
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chiaRH

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No need to 'stress test' it, it already failed in very low light situation, since there was not enough light to focus. When I pressed the shutter button, it was just showing the loading/capturing icon and the app was stuck. I did change the ISO and shutter manually with auto focus. I also noticed that if it failed to focus, it also helps to point it somewhere else then point it back to the original subject. This seems to work.

Edit: touch to focus does not even work in manual mode.

I can't even load ProShot. It always says "Failed, restart camera" showing a blank viewfinder.

The focus problem with FV5 happens regardless of the amount of light as long as you're in manual mode, autofocus, tap to focus, etc wont work, the camera module literally refuses to move, and if you try to close the app it will likely crash.

Therefore autofocus is 'not fine' to me, unless I never go into manual mode.
 
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batboyz

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The focus problem with FV5 happens regardless of the amount of light as long as you're in manual mode, autofocus, tap to focus, etc wont work, the camera module literally refuses to move, and if you try to close the app it will likely crash.

Couldn't even close it, not gracefully at least. Had to kill it. It would have been better if it would have just crashed, instead of hanging/stuck with the "getting focus progress". I guess I misinterpreted the auto focus to seem to work due to pointing it at the right focus point instead of expecting it to auto focus if moving closer/further away from the subject.
 
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Gash_1989

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Really interested in the wide angle camera, but just thinking, is it worth to buy now or wait for news on whether the G6 Plus will be release?
 

chiaRH

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so it turns out FV5 cant do long exposures on the G6, as in after the 1st successful shot it freezes

Frankly doubt this app is going to be G6-ready any time soon so I'm probably going to uninstall it. Quite a shame as it was a great app for my G4.

Good news is, bluetooth shutter works just fine for stock camera app so I can go back to using that for shooting fireworks.
 

chiaRH

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So went to NDP rehearsal today, took position near promontory, just across the road from marina bay financial centre. Similar to last year, using ND 8 filter.

Wide Lens at ISO 50,10s
http://i.imgur.com/NhjAFTS.jpg


Normal Lens at ISO50, 8s
http://i.imgur.com/6UTChU6.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/A5ftNnR.jpg


All my shots with the wide lens were sadly underexposed. That f/2.2 aperture is indeed bad for low light


And for comparison the G4 at last year NDP rehearsal
http://i.imgur.com/6KK3IuU.jpg


I... have to say I am disappointed with the G6 here, specifically its image processing.

http://i.imgur.com/IvTvlAc.jpg
See the white 'core' of the firework streaks? Its not a smooth white but theres so much processing artifacts

compare with G4
http://i.imgur.com/L2I6EW0.jpg

100% crop of another G6 shot
PHUI0vt.png



Here I'm starting to think LG really made a big mistake by using a smaller sensor and trying to compensate with too much processing.

Now here's the part I do not know: is it only an issue with the Stock app, or is it the raw sensor processing itself? The only other app I can use to take long exposures right now is Open Camera (provided I use manual focus and not autofocus) and its not so easy to test this out.

EDIT:
I think based on my wide angle shots, its a bit hard to tell but they dont seem to have the same artifact problem as the normal lens, not sure could it really be the normal camera's signal processing is having issues.

I have done a practical experiment to examine the camera behaviour:

#1. In dark room, display a long exposure of a fireworks on my monitor, then take a long exposure of it, I used this pic
http://www.9hdw.com/uploads/images/original/2013-05/871_yellow firework.jpg

#2. Play a youtube video of fireworks, then take a long exposure of the youtube video (this will show how the camera handles 'light painting' of bright objects in motion) I used this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTHkM5ZIBHk#t=36.175281

How my G6 handled the experiment (I shot using the same ISO 50, same 8s shutter and with the ND filter attached):

Static fireworks image: http://i.imgur.com/aHfDRzT.jpg

Fireworks video: http://i.imgur.com/Q5CnmNy.jpg

Look at the white portions of both photos. The static image looks fine. The long exposure of the video clip exhibits the same artifacting on the white portions. And yes it happens on all camera apps so definitely not a stock app issue.

I believe theres a threshold somewhere whereby if the shutter speed is too long, this kind of problem crops up (remember it only affects stuff in motion so bright things like car tail lights or fireworks). I tried the video thing again and even 4s exposures hit the issue.
 
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deckcard

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Can't really see on my phone but is it long exposure artifacts? Maybe do a search on the internet
 

chiaRH

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Can't really see on my phone but is it long exposure artifacts? Maybe do a search on the internet

No results found

The reality is, people who're willing to go to the trouble to shoot fireworks would use a real DSLR, not a DSLR wannabe like LG phones... so such scenarios of long exposure fireworks wont be common. Remember since the issue here is occurring on objects in motion, long exposures of static scenery at night wont have artifact problems

dont even talk about artifacts, try and google "LG G6 firework" you wont get a single hit

This is like really ironic cos like i already sold off a huawei P10 plus after being less than satisfied at its camera, turns out the phone that I got as a replacement, i.e this phone also now have its own issues :s22:

Wonder if I should just overcome my dislike for curved displays and finally go back to samsung next year lol

im still holding out some hope that someone will try the fireworks experiment and report no artifacting problems, then i can go to service centre and declare that my camera is defective
 
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Bryson

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Do you guys use steady record when video mode? Better to use or without? Pros and cons?
 

chiaRH

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Do you guys use steady record when video mode? Better to use or without? Pros and cons?

thats the electronic image stabilization, but the main camera (not the wide one) already has OIS.

Some people say using both EIS and OIS gives more jelly wobble effect in the video but you have to try it for yourself to see if its a negative
 

deckcard

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No results found

The reality is, people who're willing to go to the trouble to shoot fireworks would use a real DSLR, not a DSLR wannabe like LG phones... so such scenarios of long exposure fireworks wont be common. Remember since the issue here is occurring on objects in motion, long exposures of static scenery at night wont have artifact problems

dont even talk about artifacts, try and google "LG G6 firework" you wont get a single hit

This is like really ironic cos like i already sold off a huawei P10 plus after being less than satisfied at its camera, turns out the phone that I got as a replacement, i.e this phone also now have its own issues :s22:

Wonder if I should just overcome my dislike for curved displays and finally go back to samsung next year lol

im still holding out some hope that someone will try the fireworks experiment and report no artifacting problems, then i can go to service centre and declare that my camera is defective

Are those pics taken in RAW? That would be the best way to avoid any post processing anomaly by LG but to DIY afterwards
 

chiaRH

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Are those pics taken in RAW? That would be the best way to avoid any post processing anomaly by LG but to DIY afterwards

theyre jpeg. i dont have lightroom and I think even if I did, the effort to manually process that many photos is too much for me and if I were willing to go that far, would already be using a proper DSLR.

Im still doing further tests via the 'youtube video method' and it seems that at ISO 100 I cant see any noticeable artifacts on the white regions, who knows, it could be an issue with the way the phone does ISO50

Wv11fQt.png


Actually this method of taking a long exposure of a fireworks video in a dark room is a good way to trial and error your shutter speed to see how much of a firework burst you want to capture. However It's not a good way to gauge exposure since monitors wouldnt have the same brightness as a real firework.
 
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alamakazim

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Use manual mode. If you only use auto, G6 is not for you.

I think alot of people don't know

but is still crappy lah... what u need to pump up iso and lower shutter speed...

what? u need a tripod ? :p

might as well get mirrorless camera

i think the above example of the firework is one of the shitty example of this camera


once I bought the g6.... I really curse..... the G4 is so much better
 
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