M1 FIBRE BROADBAND DISCUSSION - Part 2

[froztheart]

Hi can I check if I can port over to M1 if my SingTel broadband is due but my SingTel TV still in contract?

Possibly, but best to check whether it's packaged together.
Otherwise, I believe good to go and port out.

 

[TanKianW]

Stability > Speed. A good wireless AP is not just simply about speed. In fact, speed upgrade is the easy part as tech advances. A competent AP provides the widest compatibility with devices, stability and consistency, maintain and manage wifi connections with clients (knowing when to drop), especially (even) in a challenging noisy environment.

Some higher end APs (mainly enterprise grade) support (background) active scanning of rogue devices or APs, load-balancing, auto blacklisting any devices or banning persisting connections that is flooding the wireless network which tries to bring the whole network to a halt. You can check if your AP support some form of dropping/banning devices with persistent failed or intermittent connection. Normally this can be achieve with adjusting a certain threshold or client management interface.​

 

[xiaofan]

Hi can I check if I can port over to M1 if my SingTel broadband is due but my SingTel TV still in contract?

Yes you can. But take note you may lose the bundle benefits in the future.

You may need to check with Singtel whether they will issue you a new ONR or not.

Existing FTP Port --> Singtel ONR (no internet access) --> Singtel TV
Another FTP Port --> M1 ONT --> Router

 

[Seehuatsee]

now the 34.9 6gbps offer can sign up online liao. https://shop.m1.com.sg/fbb/plans-bu...fZXVSd1lSVml0ZlhQZkt1clpKYzZudXVnbVlwTHNYRUln

 

[reddevil0728]

Actually tbh, is there any use of getting more than 1gbps if you are using wifi?

Will there already be a bottleneck given that wifi doesn’t really deliver the full 1gbps?

 

[xiaofan]

Actually tbh, is there any use of getting more than 1gbps if you are using wifi?

Will there already be a bottleneck given that wifi doesn’t really deliver the full 1gbps?

It depends on the wireless router and wireless device, but it is very easy to break 1Gbps barrier with decent WiFi 6 clients. WiFi 7 clients with 320MHa channel bandwidth support can easily break 1.5Gbps or 2Gbps barrier.

 

[reddevil0728]

It depends on the wireless router and wireless device, but it is very easy to break 1Gbps barrier with decent WiFi 6 clients. WiFi 7 clients with 320MHa channel bandwidth support can easily break 1.5Gbps or 2Gbps barrier.

In terms of distance?

 

[xiaofan]

In terms of distance?

That kind of wireless speed is usually only at close distance.

Anyway, with promotions liike M1 6Gbps plan, the main reason why people go for higher speed plan is that it has chaper effective pricing than 1Gbps plan, considering the cost of the bundled router.

Example: for new users, M1 1Gbps with lousy EX520 router is at S$29.90 per month, M1 6Gbps with much better Archer BE805 is at S$34.90 per month. It is a no brainer for a new user to sign up the 6Gbps plan.
https://shop.m1.com.sg/fbb/plans-bundles/fbb-plan?plan=HOMEPAC_1GBPS_24
https://shop.m1.com.sg/fbb/plans-bundles/fbb-plan?plan=HOMEPAC_6GBPS_24

In any case, no more 1Gbps plan from other ISPs, other than M1.

Singtel --> mainly 3Gbps, 5Gbps and 10Gbps plans. Still got niche 2Gbps plans.
Starhub --> 3Gbps, 5Gbps and 10Gbps plans.
M1 --> 1Gbps, 2.5Gbps, 3Gbps, 6Gbps and 10Gbps plans.
MR --> 3Gbps/10Gbps plans
VQ --> 3Gbps/10Gbps plans
SIMBA --> 10Gbps plan
WC --> 2.5Gbps/3Gbps/10Gbps plans.

 

[reddevil0728]

That kind of wireless speed is usually only at close distance.

Anyway, with promotions liike M1 6Gbps plan, the main reason why people go for higher speed plan is that it has chaper effective pricing than 1Gbps plan, considering the cost of the bundled router.

Example: for new users, M1 1Gbps with lousy EX520 router is at S$29.90 per month, M1 6Gbps with much better Archer BE805 is at S$34.90 per month. It is a no brainer for a new user to sign up the 6Gbps plan.
https://shop.m1.com.sg/fbb/plans-bundles/fbb-plan?plan=HOMEPAC_1GBPS_24
https://shop.m1.com.sg/fbb/plans-bundles/fbb-plan?plan=HOMEPAC_6GBPS_24

In any case, no more 1Gbps plan from other ISPs, other than M1.

Singtel --> mainly 3Gbps, 5Gbps and 10Gbps plans. Still got niche 2Gbps plans.
Starhub --> 3Gbps, 5Gbps and 10Gbps plans.
M1 --> 1Gbps, 2.5Gbps, 3Gbps, 6Gbps and 10Gbps plans.
MR --> 3Gbps/10Gbps plans
VQ --> 3Gbps/10Gbps plans
SIMBA --> 10Gbps plan
WC --> 2.5Gbps/3Gbps/10Gbps plans.

Ah right. I mean if it’s for effective pricing I can understand.

I’m just trying to figure if anything more than 1gbps is material under most scenarios.

if not if don’t care the router, would going for the cheapest be good enough.

 

[xiaofan]

Ah right. I mean if it’s for effective pricing I can understand.

I’m just trying to figure if anything more than 1gbps is material under most scenarios.

if not if don’t care the router, would going for the cheapest be good enough.

Then it is okay to recontract M1 1Gbps at S$24.90 per month for existing users.

No point for new users to go with M1 1Gbps plan at S$29.90 per month -- you can go with M1 6Gbps plan at S$34.90 per month, and then sell the Archer BE805 (at >S$240) and the effective price is lower than S$24.90 per month.

There are for sure some legitimate use cases for more than 1Gbps (eg: video content creators with collaborators in Singapore), but I believe at least 95% of the users do not need that.

 

[reddevil0728]

Then it is okay to recontract M1 1Gbps at S$24.90 per month.

There are for sure some legitimate use cases for more than 1Gbps (eg: video content creators with collaborators in Singapore), but I believe at least 95% of the users do not need that.

Am I right to say the following.

Assuming the device wireless is not the bottleneck.

scenario 1:

• using the “best” mesh with wireless backhaul.
• If device is near the primary node, will likely get more than 1gbps.
• Any further probably not.
• But given wireless backhaul, almost no chance getting more than 1gbps from secondary nodes regardless of how close or how far the device is from the secondary nodes?
• Assuming of course the secondary nodes are placed in proper location for real world use, and not just next to the primary node for testing

scenario 2:

• Same as the above but this time is wired backhaul.
• I assume the secondary nodes will be able to emit just as well as the primary node?

—

Separately if just talking about wired connection through on cat >6a, are there any use cases for general users for more than 1gbps if router/cost is not a concern?

 

[xiaofan]

Am I right to say the following.

Assuming the device wireless is not the bottleneck.

scenario 1:

• using the “best” mesh with wireless backhaul.
• If device is near the primary node, will likely get more than 1gbps.
• Any further probably not.
• But given wireless backhaul, almost no chance getting more than 1gbps from secondary nodes regardless of how close or how far the device is from the secondary nodes?
• Assuming of course the secondary nodes are placed in proper location for real world use, and not just next to the primary node for testing

scenario 2:

• Same as the above but this time is wired backhaul.
• I assume the secondary nodes will be able to emit just as well as the primary node?

—

Separately if just talking about wired connection through on cat >6a, are there any use cases for general users for more than 1gbps if router/cost is not a concern?

Using M1 10 Gbps plan with Asus ZenWiFi BT10 x 2 as an example. It supports AImesh using MLO backhaul.

1) It is easy to get >1Gbps with the wireless clients of the main node, say 3-5m away without a wall in between. 2Gbps is also possible with WiFi 7 clients with 320 MHz channel bandwidth support.

If the seond BT10 mesh node is at about 5m away from the main node, with line of side, without a wall between, then wired clients of the second node can easily get >1Gbps speed, or even >2Gbps speed. From the Internet, it is possible to get >5Gbps speed for wired clients of the mesh node.

But it is more difficult to get >1Gbps speed from the wireless client of the second mesh node. It is still possible though, depending on the setup.

If there is one solid wall in between the two BT10 units, the speed of the mesh node will drop significantly.

2) Yes, with Ethernet Backhaul, the mesh node is only a little bit slower than the primary node. So no issue to get >1Gbps for the wireless clients of the second BT10 mesh node. And you can get >7.x Gbps for wired clients of the second BT10 mesh node.

 

[ceecookie]

I was talking to the m1 cso about the general unreliability of the asus be92u router, this is what cso replied :

1. For this router model, we actually got an update from ASUS that there seems to be a hardware issue to some of the BE92U model that they have provided to us.
2. If it's faulty, ASUS advise to tell our customer to go to the service center and bring the faulty router for replacement.
3. The address is:
   AVERTEK ENTERPRISE Pte. Ltd.
   25 Kallang Ave. #03-03 Singapore,
   339416
   Contact Number: +65 6341 7839

So if anyone else is facing problems with the router crashing or other instability, can go down and ask for a replacement unit.

 

[Dorkable]

Using M1 10 Gbps plan with Asus ZenWiFi BT10 x 2 as an example. It supports AImesh using MLO backhaul.

1) It is easy to get >1Gbps with the wireless clients of the main node, say 3-5m away without a wall in between. 2Gbps is also possible with WiFi 7 clients with 320 MHz channel bandwidth support.

If the seond BT10 mesh node is at about 5m away from the main node, with line of side, without a wall between, then wired clients of the second node can easily get >1Gbps speed, or even >2Gbps speed. From the Internet, it is possible to get >5Gbps speed for wired clients of the mesh node.

But it is more difficult to get >1Gbps speed from the wireless client of the second mesh node. It is still possible though, depending on the setup.

If there is one solid wall in between the two BT10 units, the speed of the mesh node will drop significantly.

2) Yes, with Ethernet Backhaul, the mesh node is only a little bit slower than the primary node. So no issue to get >1Gbps for the wireless clients of the second BT10 mesh node. And you can get >7.x Gbps for wired clients of the second BT10 mesh node.

Hihi xiaofan! In the Singtel thread, I noted that you mentioned a few times that the Singtel AX5400 mesh unit (the same one on 2Gbps plan that I am currently using) is very lousy. I understand that one point you highlighted is its 1Gbps port limitation. To be fair, I was never given the chance to explore other routers to experience the difference.

Well, now that I am moving on to M1's 3Gbps network with a duo Archer BE230 Easymesh setup in a couple of weeks, could you share other points in which the Singtel AX5400 mesh unit is inferior to BE230 please? Is it like signal coverage, etc? So I can look out for it when the time comes. Thank you!

 

[xiaofan]

Hihi xiaofan! In the Singtel thread, I noted that you mentioned a few times that the Singtel AX5400 mesh unit (the same one on 2Gbps plan that I am currently using) is very lousy. I understand that one point you highlighted is its 1Gbps port limitation. To be fair, I was never given the chance to explore other routers to experience the difference.

Well, now that I am moving on to M1's 3Gbps network with a duo Archer BE230 Easymesh setup in a couple of weeks, could you share other points in which the Singtel AX5400 mesh unit is inferior to BE230 please? Is it like signal coverage, etc? So I can look out for it when the time comes. Thank you!

Archer BE230 is a low end WiFi 7 router but at least it will be better than Singtel AX5400 WiFi 6 devices. The Singtel AX5400 Wireless Router or Mesh node cannot even function as a router with other ISPs. Wireless coverage of the Singtel issued AX5400 devices are also bad.

https://www.singtel.com/personal/support/broadband/routers-ont

• Wi-Fi 6 Mesh Extender (WE620242-ST) --> cannot function as a router, only as AP or mesh node
• Wi-Fi 6 Mesh AP5690W --> cannot function as a router, only as AP or mesh node
• Wi-Fi 6 Router RT5703W --> cannot function as a router with other ISPs due to built-in Singtel VLAN profile, can only function as an AP. It only function as a router with Singtel ONT.
• Wi-Fi 6 Router (WG660242-ST) --> cannot function as a router with other ISPs due to built-in Singtel VLAN profile, can only function as an AP. It only function as a router with Singtel ONT.

Archer BE230 is not good for mesh with wireless backhaul, as it is a low end dual band Wifi 7 router (without 6GHz band). It is also not that good as a mesh solution even with Ethernet Backhaul, due to the current limitation of TP-Link EasyMesh. TP-Link Deco Mesh is better. Asus AIMesh is also better.

If you want a mesh solution and you want to go with M1, go with M1 6Gbps plan and top up for the Asus ZenWiFi BT10 two nodes.

Even if you can use a single router, for new users, M1 6Gbps with free Archer BE805 is much better than M1 1Gbps plan with Ex520 (which is quite a bit worse than Archer BE230). TP-Link EX520 is probably the worst M1 issued router in recent years (worse than TP-Link Archer AX72, or Asus RT-AX3000P).

 

[Dorkable]

Archer BE230 is a low end WiFi 7 router but at least it will be better than Singtel AX5400 WiFi 6 devices. The Singtel AX5400 Wireless Router or Mesh node cannot even function as a router with other ISPs. Wireless coverage of the Singtel issued AX5400 devices are also bad.

https://www.singtel.com/personal/support/broadband/routers-ont

• Wi-Fi 6 Mesh Extender (WE620242-ST) --> cannot function as a router, only as AP or mesh node
• Wi-Fi 6 Mesh AP5690W --> cannot function as a router, only as AP or mesh node
• Wi-Fi 6 Router RT5703W --> cannot function as a router with other ISPs due to built-in Singtel VLAN profile, can only function as an AP. It only function as a router with Singtel ONT.
• Wi-Fi 6 Router (WG660242-ST) --> cannot function as a router with other ISPs due to built-in Singtel VLAN profile, can only function as an AP. It only function as a router with Singtel ONT.

Archer BE230 is not good for mesh with wireless backhaul, as it is a low end dual band Wifi 7 router (without 6GHz band). It is also not that good as a mesh solution even with Ethernet Backhaul, due to the current limitation of TP-Link EasyMesh. TP-Link Deco Mesh is better. Asus AIMesh is also better.

If you want a mesh solution and you want to go with M1, go with M1 6Gbps plan and top up for the Asus ZenWiFi BT10 two nodes.

Even if you can use a single router, for new users, M1 6Gbps with free Archer BE805 is much better than M1 1Gbps plan with Ex520 (which is quite a bit worse than Archer BE230). TP-Link EX520 is probably the worst M1 issued router in recent years (worse than TP-Link Archer AX72, or Asus RT-AX3000P).

Thanks for sharing, xiaofan!

My ONT appointment with M1 is already scheduled for end of this month. I will be on their 3Gbps plan and already bought a new 2nd BE230 router to prepare to set up an EasyMesh network using Ethernet backhaul. Not expecting high end performance but since it is as you shared, at the very least better than Singtel's AX5400, that would certainly be good enough for me, ha

Currently, while on the Singtel 2Gbps plan with the AX5400 mesh setup, my cellphone and tablet devices are always between 880 and 940 Mbps, which is peak performance to me Oddly, my new 4-month old Aftershock PC only stays within the 400 to 550 Mbps Wifi 6 range. All my devices are used within my bedroom which has the secondary AX5400 mesh node on Ethernet backhaul.

Hopefully, with the upcoming change to the BE230 mesh setup, the Wifi speed for my PC could improve some

 

[nnmn732]

Thanks for sharing, xiaofan!

My ONT appointment with M1 is already scheduled for end of this month. I will be on their 3Gbps plan and already bought a new 2nd BE230 router to prepare to set up an EasyMesh network using Ethernet backhaul. Not expecting high end performance but since it is as you shared, at the very least better than Singtel's AX5400, that would certainly be good enough for me, ha

Currently, while on the Singtel 2Gbps plan with the AX5400 mesh setup, my cellphone and tablet devices are always between 880 and 940 Mbps, which is peak performance to me Oddly, my new 4-month old Aftershock PC only stays within the 400 to 550 Mbps Wifi 6 range. All my devices are used within my bedroom which has the secondary AX5400 mesh node on Ethernet backhaul.

Hopefully, with the upcoming change to the BE230 mesh setup, the Wifi speed for my PC could improve some

If you are able to do Ethernet backhaul for the mesh node, why not connect the PC to the Ethernet network too and avoid wifi? I think better to run wired connections to as many devices as you can to decongest the wifi network.

 

[Dorkable]

If you are able to do Ethernet backhaul for the mesh node, why not connect the PC to the Ethernet network too and avoid wifi? I think better to run wired connections to as many devices as you can to decongest the wifi network.

Coz my bedroom door is sadly in between my PC/study and the network point. Unless I engage a professional to come do cable trunking and repainting for me, I would have to make do with Wifi for my desktop

Alternatively, I could do a switcheroo of my furniture in my bedroom to cater the network point for my PC. But that would somewhat compromise my TV watching/gaming comfort from my sofa and bed when the positions are switched. Hence, I shall see first if the Wifi speed for my PC could improve after M1 comes over to do the installation I guess it all boils down to a matter of priorities, ha.

 

[marxace]

Wow, impressive.
Since you have two points going to the living room, say D10 and D11, D10 can connect to the ONT in DB, linked to the router WAN port in living room.
D11 in living room then connects to the router LAN port, linked to D11 in the DB.
D11 in DB then connects to another piece of equipment, i.e. network switch
Thereafter, wire up whichever points to the network switch in the DB.

Hi, The MR technician (sorry for posting in M1 thread instead) came to my place to install on Friday and did the connection as follows: TP- ONT- D12 (study room) which is where i prefer and the study room is also where the DB is located. So far everything is ok, happy with speeds and coverage and do not require a second router/mesh although my master bedroom range/speed is quite low but i can live with that.

However, I want to use the ethernet point in the living room solely for the purpose of connecting it with the TV. (i understand wifi should be enough but will prefer to still have the option to connect the TV via ethernet)

I asked the technician if i want to use ethernet in other rooms, what should i do besides installing a router at the DB connecting with the ONT. He says to install an IP switch. Being a noob, i asked him is IP switch same as network switch and he say similar. However i googled and checked in the forum that ONT supposed to connect with router first and cannot be connected to switch directly.

Unfortunately, my study room has only 1 Lan point so i cannot use your proposed method above and i do not want to place the router in the living room because if i place it on the console, it will not be nice aesthetically and if i place it in the enclosed cabinets of the console, i believe the signal will be bad as the router will be fully enclosed all the time (I havent tested it yet as i have not moved over)

So if i want to use my ethernet points without changing the current router placement, can i put an IP switch into the DB box connecting it with the ONT as per MR technician's suggestion or do i have to put a router inside?

Thanks.

 

[nnmn732]

Coz my bedroom door is sadly in between my PC/study and the network point. Unless I engage a professional to come do cable trunking and repainting for me, I would have to make do with Wifi for my desktop

Alternatively, I could do a switcheroo of my furniture in my bedroom to cater the network point for my PC. But that would somewhat compromise my TV watching/gaming comfort from my sofa and bed when the positions are switched. Hence, I shall see first if the Wifi speed for my PC could improve after M1 comes over to do the installation I guess it all boils down to a matter of priorities, ha.

Makes sense. Tough compromises and I have similar situations. I run wireless mesh backhaul which I'm happy with in terms of performance. But always nagging me if I could get better running a lan cable for my satellite node. I have many theoretical setups in mind to achieve it but have not pulled the trigger.