MND report on AIM

[GBC]

Let me ask a simple question.
If you call an open tender for MA and only one vendor (FMSS) responded, how would you ensure that this award is done in an unbiased, fair and transparent manner given that the first award to FMSS came under alot of public scrutiny ?

 

[NTB2DO]

BTW here's some interesting info posted by a reader (in response to a forum letter in today's ST) :
Where's the accountability?

(Under the "comments" section)

QuoVadis1965 3 hours ago


Fact 1: a tender was called a year after FMSS was hired and AHTC was stabilised. However, there were no other bids than FMSS.
Fact 2: after the PAP won the Potong Pasir GRC in 2011 a long-term contract was awarded to EM Services without any tender ever being called. The CEO of EM Services is a former PAP MP for Hong Kah GRC: Mr Ang Mong Seng.

Draw your own conclusions from these facts.

Anyway it's indeed true that EM is headed by ex-PAP MP (meaning he's 100% a "close associate" of PAP hor) : -Ang Mong Seng | Parliament Of Singapore

 

[NTB2DO]

Let me ask a simple question.
If you call an open tender for MA and only one vendor (FMSS) responded, how would you ensure that this award is done in an unbiased, fair and transparent manner given that the first award to FMSS came under alot of public scrutiny ?

Hehe I also asked cybercom8 the same simple question, twice.

And still yet to get a reply from him/her...

 

[xdivider]

Hehe I also asked cybercom8 the same simple question, twice.

And still yet to get a reply from him/her...

Wun get one, when cannot answer, attack ur credibility. MIW std tactic. Khaw dug a big hole, and THP made it deeper. Newspaper all made it sound like WP silenced when WP answered on own web page. Too bad my pet died or i may have some tabloids i can read to laugh at after using to wipe **** from the cage............

That said, most of the post 85ers uses internet to find info, most of it is unfrenly to MIW now. Nice reversals from the 80s when MIW was GOD and opp was DOG. MIW absolutely has no idea how to return to the 80s, maybe beside tearing down all the isps........

 

[sunzoner]

Let me ask a simple question.
If you call an open tender for MA and only one vendor (FMSS) responded, how would you ensure that this award is done in an unbiased, fair and transparent manner given that the first award to FMSS came under alot of public scrutiny ?

This is the part where WP called the PM to let CIPB investigate when someothers called MND to do up a report...

 

[cybercom8]

BTW here's some interesting info posted by a reader (in response to a forum letter in today's ST) :
Where's the accountability?

(Under the "comments" section)


Anyway it's indeed true that EM is headed by ex-PAP MP (meaning he's 100% a "close associate" of PAP hor) : -Ang Mong Seng | Parliament Of Singapore

lol...think you are missing the forest for the trees...its not so much if anything is legal as i am sure most of these folks are not stupid to engage in anything illegal.

here you are again back in the mode of slinging mud back and forth rather than evaluating if something really does not seem right in each process. guess that's how one tries to defend the indefensible

i would think there is huge difference between awarding a contract to a corporate entity and to a couple of friends or associates who formed a new company just for you

simply put, if the roles were reversed, i am sure you will be arguing the opposite

 

[cybercom8]

Let me ask a simple question.
If you call an open tender for MA and only one vendor (FMSS) responded, how would you ensure that this award is done in an unbiased, fair and transparent manner given that the first award to FMSS came under alot of public scrutiny ?

did the first award come under a lot of public scrutiny? seems like not too many knew about it.

in the first place, WP jumped the gun by forming FMSS right after the election and awarding them the contract without any tender. They could just as easily have let the incumbent continue for a reasonable period of time while getting their team to work in the background to take over quickly in case of any contingencies.

if the incumbent played punk and pulled out in say a month without a proper handover, then WP can take the moral high ground and the public can see and support that they had to resort to getting a close husband and wife team to keep the estate running.

instead it seemed like they were too eager to have this couple take over the multi-million $ contracts and only raised a ruckus about AIM when they got a poor performance report over their management of the TC.

 

[cybercom8]

There is a diff between rigging the bid and putting a bid and the govt-linked companies not bidding. Nice job trying to lump them together.........

that's a serious accusation, can you share the facts to back up your claim that it was rigged? CPIB involvement does not always mean that the person is really guilty. if you are a buyer and someone informed your company that you favoured a supplier or had lunch/dinner together etc may sometimes result in your company reporting you to CPIB but it may not mean that you are really guilty of corruption in the typical layman sense as in getting a cut of the business. I know of some companies that do not allow their purchasing staff to meet suppliers for lunch or even get a lift to the MRT station

still, awarding multi million dollars contract without any tender at higher rates is better or worse than awarding a contract via tender to a supposedly non profit entity? i think both practices raise questions but any non partisan person will know one is more serious than the other...

guess blind faith (as proclaimed by some) or hatred will lead some seemingly intelligent folks to try to defend the indefensible

bottomline, as any discerning person will know, the same exact actions/processes by 2 different parties will draw totally opposite reactions from the members here. I always thought blind faith is only applicable in religions but it seems to apply to some rabid folks for politics as well

even then, being driven by blind faith is still better than being driven by hate

 

[xdivider]

that's a serious accusation, can you share the facts to back up your claim that it was rigged? CPIB involvement does not always mean that the person is really guilty. if you are a buyer and someone informed your company that you favoured a supplier or had lunch/dinner together etc may sometimes result in your company reporting you to CPIB but it may not mean that you are really guilty of corruption in the typical layman sense as in getting a cut of the business. I know of some companies that do not allow their purchasing staff to meet suppliers for lunch or even get a lift to the MRT station

still, awarding multi million dollars contract without any tender at higher rates is better or worse than awarding a contract via tender to a supposedly non profit entity? i think both practices raise questions but any non partisan person will know one is more serious than the other...

guess blind faith (as proclaimed by some) or hatred will lead some seemingly intelligent folks to try to defend the indefensible

bottomline, as any discerning person will know, the same exact actions/processes by 2 different parties will draw totally opposite reactions from the members here. I always thought blind faith is only applicable in religions but it seems to apply to some rabid folks for politics as well

even then, being driven by blind faith is still better than being driven by hate

Brompton was not rigged? So why was the directors investigated and suspended? The FMSS case is well reported, EM services and gang did not even bother to tender. So what to do, create 2 more TC mgt coy to have the illusion of 3 cheapest quotes, like a particular org? Which TC mgt service is NOT linked to MIW? Trying to paint WP and MIW with the same brush? when facts dun help, try to shift the target board? If u are a MIW supporter or WP basher, juz wear it instead of pretending to be unbiased. Doesnt help when u have the acting skills of mediacorpse. Tell KBW and THP to stop disgracing themselves on national tv and on facebook........

 

[NTB2DO]

lol...think you are missing the forest for the trees...its not so much if anything is legal as i am sure most of these folks are not stupid to engage in anything illegal.

here you are again back in the mode of slinging mud back and forth rather than evaluating if something really does not seem right in each process. guess that's how one tries to defend the indefensible

i would think there is huge difference between awarding a contract to a corporate entity and to a couple of friends or associates who formed a new company just for you

simply put, if the roles were reversed, i am sure you will be arguing the opposite

Hehe you are so cute. Did I claim that there was any wrongdoing? Where?

Or to you, "interesting info" (the exact term I used) = wrongdoing?!!!

Or, as far as you are concerned, as long as I post any info (seemingly not in ruling party's favour), I must be saying that it's not right liao?

Anyway in case you are not aware (since it's not reported in MSM), WP already stated that if PAP felt that there were any wrongdoing, by all means, get CPIB to investigate lor.

 

[NTB2DO]

did the first award come under a lot of public scrutiny? seems like not too many knew about it.].

http://www.tremeritus.com/2011/08/0...ys-appointment-of-fm-services-without-tender/

in the first place, WP jumped the gun by forming FMSS right after the election and awarding them the contract without any tender. They could just as easily have let the incumbent continue for a reasonable period of time while getting their team to work in the background to take over quickly in case of any contingencies.

if the incumbent played punk and pulled out in say a month without a proper handover, then WP can take the moral high ground and the public can see and support that they had to resort to getting a close husband and wife team to keep the estate running.

instead it seemed like they were too eager to have this couple take over the multi-million $ contracts and only raised a ruckus about AIM when they got a poor performance report over their management of the TC.

Alas.

OK this was published in May 14 ST's headline "Khaw: Town councils political by nature" :

Members of Parliament enjoy latitude running their town councils and the Workers's Party, like the ruling party, has turned to party affiliates to run its operations, National development Minister Khaw Boon Wan said yesterday.

If even the minister himself also asserted that there's nothing wrong with turning to party affiliates liao, why do you still keep harping about it (being wrong)?

And Please lah, AIM being registered under ex-PAP MPs and it being a $2 shell company were exposed by the NETIZEN, NOT WP, WP merely explained (the delay in submitting its corporate governance report) that as AIM was terminating the lease of the existing TC software, WP needed to put up the replacement software and the change-over took time, causing the delay.. However, the AIM being PAP-owned and being $2 company ("unearthed" by netizens) had created such public uproar that everybody (ok mainly the non-ruling party supporters) expected WP to raise the matter in Parliament and so WP obliged lor.

 

[xdivider]

The whole AIM mess was self-inflicted. They probably thought to score points. Ended up it proves none of them have any minister calibre to share between them.

 

[GBC]

did the first award come under a lot of public scrutiny? seems like not too many knew about it.

in the first place, WP jumped the gun by forming FMSS right after the election and awarding them the contract without any tender. They could just as easily have let the incumbent continue for a reasonable period of time while getting their team to work in the background to take over quickly in case of any contingencies.

if the incumbent played punk and pulled out in say a month without a proper handover, then WP can take the moral high ground and the public can see and support that they had to resort to getting a close husband and wife team to keep the estate running.

instead it seemed like they were too eager to have this couple take over the multi-million $ contracts and only raised a ruckus about AIM when they got a poor performance report over their management of the TC.

My basic question has still not been answered.

 

[koxinga]

E M Services
E M Services

Above is the composition of EM Services BoD, and the list of tenders that they were awarded, which were all PAP led TCs.

Before we assume that there is something funny going on with all PAP TCs, would a company like EM Services be interested in participating in a tender called by a opposition TC?

a) EM Service may rightly or wrongly assumed that an opposition TC will never award a contract to them.

b) EM Service might make a decision not to participate in any opposition led TC on the basis of a political decision instead of a business one in (a); why should it provide services to the Opposition?

Both scenarios are equally plausible in my opinion and is in a nutshell, what's going on now.

 

[NTB2DO]

so by your assumption, there is no need for tenders then...just award multi-million $ contracts to strong supporters why bother with tenders right?

you seem to like to make a lot of assumptions but yet you are inconsistent on principles. think we should hold both parties to the same moral or ethical standards. its curious why you may deem that something is done wrongly by one party but the same thing is perfectly ok for the other party.

you are either naive or clearly mischievous in saying that the contract will not be given to fmss.

you are clearly doing the opposition voters a disservice by assuming that they care more about estate management than other aspects of their lives. if you are right about them, then there would not have been a potong pasir or hougang in the first place.

Sorry to dig up this old post of yours (in rebuttal to my earlier comment http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/76308823-post69.html, to which I've replied--except for that last para of yours (in bold)), cos I believe a commentary by an ST editor (Warren Fernandez) published in today's Sunday times happens to echo my--not your--view lor, hehe.

(excerpt from the printed version, pg 47)

Putting MPs in charge of town councils would made them accountable for the upkeep of the estates. This, it was argued, would have the salutary effect of focusing voter's minds when picking MPs to ensure their lives were not disrupted and their property values did not plummet should they make a poor choice.

In a sense, this worked. Before long, even the opposition parties realised that they had to try field candidates who looked like they might be up to the task. Later, some also took a leaf from the People's Action Party's book and appointed professional estate management agents to assure residents that things would continue to run smoothly.

Over time, though, the fact that the rubbish did not pile up in the dustbin chutes or residents were not left trapped in lifts in Potong Pasir or Hougang, after the opposition tooks charge in those estates, also meant that voting for the opposition ceased to be such a fearsome prospect.

 

[cybercom8]

My basic question has still not been answered.

this is ridiculous, why should i answer your question about how to solve the mess they created? i can only offer my advice on how it should not have happened in the first place

 

[cybercom8]

Brompton was not rigged? So why was the directors investigated and suspended? The FMSS case is well reported, EM services and gang did not even bother to tender. So what to do, create 2 more TC mgt coy to have the illusion of 3 cheapest quotes, like a particular org? Which TC mgt service is NOT linked to MIW? Trying to paint WP and MIW with the same brush? when facts dun help, try to shift the target board? If u are a MIW supporter or WP basher, juz wear it instead of pretending to be unbiased. Doesnt help when u have the acting skills of mediacorpse. Tell KBW and THP to stop disgracing themselves on national tv and on facebook........

so much for being innocent till proven guilty... guess you deem it alright to pronounce sentence on anyone before the facts are out. so if someone complained to cpib about you and they investigated you and your company puts you on suspended leave of absence before the investigations are over, it means that you are guilty of corruption?

seems pretty obvious you are exactly what you are accusing others of

i stated clearly both are wrong, and i believe any non partisan observers can see that, whereas someone like you blinded by hate is clearly not interested in facts...so much for democracy

and you must be really daft to think i can tell KBW and THP what to do...are you delusional?...or paranoid?

 

[cybercom8]

Sorry to dig up this old post of yours (in rebuttal to my earlier comment http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/76308823-post69.html, to which I've replied--except for that last para of yours (in bold)), cos I believe a commentary by an ST editor (Warren Fernandez) published in today's Sunday times happens to echo my--not your--view lor, hehe.

(excerpt from the printed version, pg 47)

lol, you remind me of that radio advert about listening to only what you want (to the extent of changing the context or meaning of what was said) since you profess to be well read, surely you did not miss the article that awarding (or rather rewarding) supporters with $$$millions contracts is a big nono?

and your lack of comprehension is alarming...my rebuttal to you that opposition supporters do not regard estate management as their top priority as claimed by you because if its true, the opposition would not have won Hougang and Potong Pasir long ago before they had any experience managing the town councils.

 

[xdivider]

i stated clearly both are wrong, and i believe any non partisan observers can see that, whereas someone like you blinded by hate is clearly not interested in facts...so much for democracy

Hatred, ya for HYPOCRITES. NON-Partisan? Try acting classes. Everytime u are pressed for answers, you throw a WOT that says precisely nothing. Meanwhile, going around saying u guys are biased, WP is the same while discarding everything regarding the 2 situations you cannot answer. Same school of debating as MIWs. You are PRECISELY the same as what u accuse the rest of. Anyone who points up problems with MIW and govt policies are all blinded by hate while people like you who points out problem with opposition are not. Most of us feels there is a fundamental issue with how public monies are used to screw the oppositions with no transparency. Make all your noise about FMSS but the reason why MIW did not say anything about it b4 was bcos their arrangement was equally shady. Since MIW forced a lot of the situation by cancelling work arrangements with MIW linked TC companies, they conveniently gave WP opportunities to set up companies for the purpose of SERVING the inhabitants. If there is anything wrong with the WP deal, MIW would have CPIBed them a lot time ago instead of bringing it up right now trying to DEFEND their stupid arrangements. Since u want to bring FMSS into the fray, kindly explain why EM service and other MIW TC mgt coys did NOT bid and whether there is any NON MIW TC mgt coy out there. Its not like the brompton deal where the tender was made right after a public holiday with a very short window asking for a very specific bike without INFORMING the distributors at all. Nice try mixing them together and claiming biasness. If there is any biasness its all MIW supported, with them setting up themselves for the fall....

PS, he's trying to derail the discussion to MIW vs WP. keep it on AIM. IBs or not, this is precisely what MIW wants. Keep it back on why public monies can be used selectively to hamper oppositon, not opposition will be juz as bad when they come into power......

 

[NTB2DO]

lol, you remind me of that radio advert about listening to only what you want (to the extent of changing the context or meaning of what was said) since you profess to be well read, surely you did not miss the article that awarding (or rather rewarding) supporters with $$$millions contracts is a big nono?

and your lack of comprehension is alarming...my rebuttal to you that opposition supporters do not regard estate management as their top priority as claimed by you because if its true, the opposition would not have won Hougang and Potong Pasir long ago before they had any experience managing the town councils.

Hehe you seem to like to make assumptions leh, don't you.. For instance, did I "profess to be well-read"? Where?

But then I know for sure that editor of our national paper (ST) is certainly very well-read (and very well-informed).. more so than you and I, don't you agree?

And he holds the same view as I, not you. Period.


Edit:

Come across this in last Sat (18 May)'s ST INSIGHT by Jessica Cheam, the political correspondent:

..Then Prime Minister Lee Kuan Yew famously said that a voter's personal well-being "will be at stake" if an estate is poorly run. The implication was: Vote opposition, and you may regret it.

Also, Potong Pasir was already under Chiam when they implemented TC. Though Hougang was not under Low yet but WP already won a seat--by JBJ..