MoolahSense investing Thread

[Simonlee1977]

Moolah? FS?

its a fraud and all our investments will disappear soon

 

[AvatarViper]

Moolah? FS?

it is not a scammed. just not worth the time and effort.

 

[das.gta]

MS is a fraud and we will loose all our money

Moolah? FS?

 

[myename]

MS is a fraud and we will loose all our money

For someone who created an account just to post this, I believe you 100%

 

[wonghw12]

For anyone with an account at MoolahSense, even if you have nothing invested, this looks very worrying:

"customer's data is not treated well and even secured properly anyone can access from open files"

https://www.glassdoor.sg/Reviews/Mo...532.htm?sort.sortType=RD&sort.ascending=false

 

[tcwehcs]

I have multiple loans under the same borrower. Probably write in to FS to have a option not to invest in same borrower if existing loan not completed.

We might have the same defaulting issuer - my first too.

So far, unlike MoolahSense, FS does provide timely info on why the issuers are late and what they plan to do. So I guess you can estimate your risk of not getting your money back.

Anyway, for my loan that is defaulting the latest update is this:

"The borrower has had 2 large projects fall through, resulting in financial difficulties, however they are still operating. The borrower is working on a proposal for restructuring their loans, when they present this we will negotiate and update investors. We should have some more information by 10 May"

 

[das.gta]

Our data is not safe and secure

For anyone with an account at MoolahSense, even if you have nothing invested, this looks very worrying:


We can write to MAS to do a complete system and security audit of MoolahSense , Otherwise on some day our details might be in wrong hands .

 

[RMCWMR]

Imo. There are 2 ways to look at this thing, if one thinks p2p is worth saving and then rat **** must be punished to make the industry better. 2nd, like what you have mentioned, it is not worth good money to pursue this, then I forsee the whole p2p industry will go more rotten, ended in bad cycles of bad money and scammer. And eventually we should quit such invertment tool asap. I am quite dissatisfied with moolah sense, b/c what they did would not help this industry to grow, if scammer could go away so easily, eventually less money will be reinvested, I don't feel good for the future of p2p loan.

But think about it. Why should they? At the end of the day competition and pressures from shareholders to grow outweights respinsibility to the segment or its investors. There are a dearth of investors around. The industry is not short of investors. They are short of borrowers. Credit worthy borrowers. So for platforms like moolahsense they have no choice but to pursue even risker borrowers due to competition and pressure to grow. Heck care about investors.

At the same time i don't believe in regulation. We are over regulated. If you want save investment just put yr money in Fixed Deposit. But if you want higher yield then take the risk. You can't have best of everything.

 

[Boy who Procrastinates]

I agree with some here that the additional returns may not worth taking the risk.

After completing 100 loans with FS, I have observed some interesting statistics with the accumulation of data such as the returns, the service fee and whether there is any relationship with the loan duration and returns. Hopefully it will be useful information for people who would like to have an idea of how is it like participating in P2P loans.

https://theboywhoprocrastinates.blogspot.com/2019/05/statistical-review-of-funding-societies.html

 

[clyclycly]

Progress

My Investments

In Funding 0
Paid 7
Current 30
Late 8
Past Due 12
Doubtful 6
Loss 2
Restructured 0
Closed Off 0

Still in the process of pulling out. So currently I have 7 that are paid out and closed off, 30 that are ok, and 8+12+6+2=28 that are in trouble.

 

[kenplicity]

My Investments

In Funding 0
Paid 7
Current 30
Late 8
Past Due 12
Doubtful 6
Loss 2
Restructured 0
Closed Off 0

Still in the process of pulling out. So currently I have 7 that are paid out and closed off, 30 that are ok, and 8+12+6+2=28 that are in trouble.

I don't think late is big problem. Loss and douteful are. Past due then likely to develop into trouble.

 

[sp1980]

My Investments
Find out what these statuses mean.Click here
In Funding 0
Paid 33
Current 22
Late 2
Past Due 11
Doubtful 3
Loss 8
Closed Off 1
Total Invested Amount : S$ 10,200.00

Current Snapshot
Principal Received S$ 7,747.76
Interest Received S$ 670.35
Late Interest Received S$ 78.68
Outstanding Principal S$ 2,352.70
Outstanding Interest S$ 135.27
Current In Funding S$ 0.00
Available Funds S$ 0.00
Closed Off Principal S$ 99.99
Closed Off Interest S$ 7.12


Basically i'm losing money.

Update 28 May 19

In Funding 0
Paid 44
Current 12
Late 0
Past Due 5
Doubtful 6
Loss 9
Restructured 0
Closed Off 4

 

[RMCWMR]

Fundamentally people forget these are high risk loans. There is a reason why banks avoid these borrowers and there is a reason why these borrowers are willing to pay >10% interest. You think they stupid? You think banks are stupid?

 

[wonghw12]

Fundamentally people forget these are high risk loans. There is a reason why banks avoid these borrowers and there is a reason why these borrowers are willing to pay >10% interest. You think they stupid? You think banks are stupid?

A lot of borrowers are definitely not creditworthy enough to borrow more from banks. But this is not the main concern - pawnshops and moneylenders lend to people who are sidelined by the banks.

Beyond theory crafting, MoolahSense has a significant worse default rate (in excess of 30%) than the peer platforms (below 5%). It makes the entire investment unprofitable, no matter how you diversify it. That's what a lot of concerns are about.

 

[RMCWMR]

A lot of borrowers are definitely not creditworthy enough to borrow more from banks. But this is not the main concern - pawnshops and moneylenders lend to people who are sidelined by the banks.

Beyond theory crafting, MoolahSense has a significant worse default rate (in excess of 30%) than the peer platforms (below 5%). It makes the entire investment unprofitable, no matter how you diversify it. That's what a lot of concerns are about.

Even money lenders and finance company like Singfinance shun these bunch of borrowers. Finance company themselves don't charge 10% p.a. interest rates and if these borrowers can qualify for cheaper loans from finance company they would have done that already.

I have always said Moolahsense is beyond dumb to automate their credit process. They believe by automating the on-boarding and credit approval process and tweak the credit parameters along the way, they could potentially save on manpower, labour and scale up. Their aim is eventually the risk in the entire portfolio will balance itself out and net net its still a profit on portfolio basis. But i tell you its not going to happen. Not now not in the near future at least. There is no substitute for solid credit experience. Automation may help but cannot be the "is all" now. Plus they have no incentive to protect investors since 1. investors vastly outnumber borrowers. 2. Its not their problem because they do not take the risk.

 

[wonghw12]

Agree on the automation part if not all credit analysts will be out of jobs, though I think MoolahSense is driving it from the marketing angle to put in as many buzzwords as they can.

Moneylenders don't lend at 10% p.a. They lend at 4% per month (>50% EIR)
https://www.valuechampion.sg/average-interest-rates-licensed-money-lenders-singapore

Hence crowdfunding platforms are lending more cheaply at below 20% p.a. Here you may argue that MoolahSense underprice the risk for the profile of borrowers they are onboarding relative to other platforms.

 

[numbers]

better stay away from moolahsense, alot of crappy companies they take in.

I started with them back then when they were starting out, some defaulted till now still havent resolved anything. I write off my losses already cos i think will never see it come back.

 

[ericpro96]

totally agree that moolahsense is a bad way to invest,peer 2 peer are not very viable,quite a few loan have default,lucky they were only at $100 or $500 ,back when i was just a noob...,do read about my moolahsense investment updates on my blog:https://sonicericsg.blogspot.com/2018/07/post-36week-27investment-project.html

 

[wonghw12]

totally agree that moolahsense is a bad way to invest,peer 2 peer are not very viable,quite a few loan have default,lucky they were only at $100 or $500 ,back when i was just a noob...,do read about my moolahsense investment updates on my blog:https://sonicericsg.blogspot.com/2018/07/post-36week-27investment-project.html

I can see you did a lot of work to assess the companies but very difficult to look through everything. What's your percentage of loans in default?

 

[RMCWMR]

totally agree that moolahsense is a bad way to invest,peer 2 peer are not very viable,quite a few loan have default,lucky they were only at $100 or $500 ,back when i was just a noob...,do read about my moolahsense investment updates on my blog:https://sonicericsg.blogspot.com/2018/07/post-36week-27investment-project.html

The blog maybe a bit wrong in my opinion. In the blog he mentions he uses current ratio, quick ratio and total liabilities/equity.

While current ratio roughly tells you the liquidity position of the company, it is too general. It just means assets are more than liability if the ratio is above 1.0x. But it maybe that the company are heavy in inventory (stocking up too much) or receivables ( problems in collection). Current ratio does not tell you that.

Quick ratio is slightly better as it takes out inventory from the equation but won't tell you about quality of debtors.

Total liabilities / total equity or leverage ratio may also be skewed coz equity may not have factored in things like goodwill.

If you ask me, the better ratio to look at is:
1. Debt Service Coverage Ratio.
This is your EBITDA /All short term debts + current portion of long term debts + interest. This ratio shows you if the company can generate enough cashflow to cover its debts.

2. Cash Conversion Cycle.
This is your average days receivables turnover + average days inventory turnover - average days creditors turnover. This is to measure how fast $1 of asset can produce $1 of revenue. The longer the days, the more worried you should be as the company may run into cashflow problems.

3. Gearing. Or debt/Tangible networth. This is to measure if the debts taken up is much more than the company is really worth. If the gearing is 10x means that the debt they borrow is more than 10x what the company is worth and flight risk increase tremendously.