Need Help! Unit trust investment

[BBCWatcher]

Honestly, not all Unit Trusts are bad right?

All unit trusts sold in Singapore are bad. Nobody has found even one that has even reasonable costs.

However, if you have unexpectedly found a unit trust that has reasonable costs, name it, please. Many people would be happy to find that unicorn.

 

[naro]

All unit trusts sold in Singapore are bad. Nobody has found even one that has even reasonable costs.

However, if you have unexpectedly found a unit trust that has reasonable costs, name it, please. Many people would be happy to find that unicorn.

What is a reasonable cost in terms of expense ratio? Less than 1%?

 

[Jisoo87]

No time ?
Get your ‘friend’ to trade commodities for you.

This time is different 😳 HardwareZone Forums app

He doesn’t leh.

 

[Jisoo87]

gg

u better read up more on investment

Hoesntly speaking, if i had interest, i would have but I don’t
But i also know I shouldn’t leave my money in the bank

 

[Jisoo87]

Let us know which fund your friend recommended and we tell you if it's really ok to invest in that.

He stated a few:
1) PIMCO
2) First state
3) some UOB fund that i cannot rmb

 

[Jisoo87]

Never invest in Unit Trust.

They rarely make money, just make money for your RM.

Nobody care more about your money than you yourself. If you don't have time, just put into a FD. You are a fool to think that your RM friend care about you and your money.

Okay for me, i have no interest to read up on investment. I don’t mind giving RMs or whoever a cut for their services as long as the end of the day, i make money. There’s no free lunch in this world. Rather than wasting my time to read up and manage myself (and ended up screwing up my investments), I’d rather just let professionals manage for me

 

[bella89]

Monthly dividends isn't automatically good. Why? Those monthly dividends can be paid out not only from dividends from the underlying securities, but also from selling the securities within the fund. Where are those dividends paid out from? What is the management fee charged by the manager of the fund? What kind of information was given to you about the fund?


I (and many others) invest for the long term (for future retirement). Hence, we prefer gains to be compounded, not paid out.


Look, your "friend" gets a cut from selling those products to you. He/she has a vested interest there. It is up to you to protect your interests, not your "friend".

what do you invest in?

 

[limster]

Honestly, not all Unit Trusts are bad right? Yes, it definitely take a longer time to generate a decent return unlike shares. But so far, it does not usually fail me in the long run. I don't usually monitor much unless there is a unexpected major downturn like what happen late last month.

Putting into FD is really the last alternative.

sometimes comparing too much is bad, just like comparing salaries. The question is whether you are happy with the return that the unit trusts provide.

For example, I have used my CPF to buy unit trusts, First State Bridge and First State Greater China. From 1, 3, 5, 10 year timeframe, these unit trusts have always beat the 2.5% CPF interest and I am totally satisfied with that. I also use CPF to buy STI ETF and a couple of other local shares but I don't want my entire CPFIS account to be only holding Singapore stocks.

Furthermore, I gain geographical diversification and also asset class diversification (FSB holds bonds). You cannot use CPF money to buy foreign stocks and ETFs.

 

[bella89]

Honestly, not all Unit Trusts are bad right? Yes, it definitely take a longer time to generate a decent return unlike shares. But so far, it does not usually fail me in the long run. I don't usually monitor much unless there is a unexpected major downturn like what happen late last month.

Putting into FD is really the last alternative.

I agree. My experiences have been positive so far.
My first UT was bought from a bank RM.
There was a 5% charge up front, but i still managed to recoup and earn because the funds performed. There are lots of funds around - fixed income fund, equities or balanced fund. I also invested in a govt bond fund and the prices were not affected greatly by the recent market correction at all. On the other hand, i cant say the same for stocks..

 

[mmchaisi]

For relatively hands off investing, look for a fund which tracks an index, eg STI, S&P500, etc. Before ETFs I used to buy Index Mutual Funds for this but since then, with the lower fees, ETFs are a no brainer. Specifically, choose an ETF which tracks an index and the popular ones discussed here are ES3 for local stocks, IWDA for world wide and EIMI for emerging markets. The latter 2 are chosen as they are domiciled in Ireland and have tax advantages, to help your returns.

Unit Trust/Mutual funds used to give you more choice and esoteric flexibility but now ETF too have a wide range to choose from at generally lower fees, but I simply stick to the Index ETF, except to help a friend struggling to earn a living and a will buy a good performing UT.

It remains then to find a broker with the lowest commisions and custodian fees, and convenience when you have to use USD to purchase.

 

[BBCWatcher]

1) PIMCO

Which one?

Picking one at random, PIMCO's GIS StocksPLUS Fund investor class shares (ISIN IE0005304443) has an annual management charge of 0.90%. For comparison (a very fair comparison in terms of fund holdings), symbol CPSX, traded on the London Stock Exchange, has an annual management charge of 0.07%. CPSX is also highly likely to be more tax efficient since dividend distributions will be taxed at the Irish treaty rate of 15% instead of the non-treaty 30% rate.

There's ordinarily a 5% sales charge for that PIMCO fund. Ouch! Maybe it's avoidable.

2) First state

First State what? (ISIN, please.)

3) some UOB fund that i cannot rmb

Same question.

 

[antonpoh]

He stated a few:
1) PIMCO
2) First state
3) some UOB fund that i cannot rmb

You know each of those got 10-20 over funds? Picking the wrong one and you would have some very low return.


For UOB

UOB United Asia Consumer Fund - S$1.338 (1st Yr - 24.46%) (3 yr Ann. Return 5.11%)

https://api.fundinfo.com/document/6a0f830b3a749efbb43d78ee9d92e6ad_102146/MR_SG_en_SG9999006514_YES_2017-12-29.pdf?apiKey=a99fa3fab241f7d96d7b68b2299a10df

UOB United Global Financials Fund - S$2.767 (1st Yr - 15.29%) (3yrs Ann. Return 7.39%)

https://api.fundinfo.com/document/741f8f5a6f4517743a8366847ac3a2af_166898/MR_SG_en_SG9999001234_YES_2017-12-29.pdf?apiKey=a99fa3fab241f7d96d7b68b2299a10df

 

[LonelyMan]

Do a proper financial needs analysis first. This is mandatory for any financial planner, consultant, adviser or agent to conduct a proper FNA before recommendation of funds.

 

[BBCWatcher]

UOB United Asia Consumer Fund - S$1.338 (1st Yr - 24.46%) (3 yr Ann. Return 5.11%)

That fund has an annual management fee of 1.5% and a 5% sales charge. Both are obscene and common among unit trusts sold in Singapore. It also has a whopping S$6.5 million in the fund (through end of 2017), so fortunately not too many people are paying these steep charges.

UOB United Global Financials Fund - S$2.767 (1st Yr - 15.29%) (3yrs Ann. Return 7.39%)

Same steep fees, and unfortunately a few more people are paying them (S$29.18 million fund size).

 

[Maeda_Toshiie]

What is a reasonable cost in terms of expense ratio? Less than 1%?

Most if not all them can't beat low cost ETFs in terms of fees. That's fine IF they can consistently beat passive ETFs. Problem is that they largely don't. and you can't predict which UTs can do that. This is a well known problem (just ask Joel Greenblatt and John Bogle).

Okay for me, i have no interest to read up on investment. I don’t mind giving RMs or whoever a cut for their services as long as the end of the day, i make money. There’s no free lunch in this world. Rather than wasting my time to read up and manage myself (and ended up screwing up my investments), I’d rather just let professionals manage for me

I don't read up on US shares because I don't trade them individually. I just use ETFs for exposure. I'm not going to fund someone else's sports car while not knowing if that guy can even match the market after fees. I just want to track the overall market.

what do you invest in?

I pick some stocks myself but I also use ETFs.

I agree. My experiences have been positive so far.
My first UT was bought from a bank RM.
There was a 5% charge up front, but i still managed to recoup and earn because the funds performed. There are lots of funds around - fixed income fund, equities or balanced fund. I also invested in a govt bond fund and the prices were not affected greatly by the recent market correction at all. On the other hand, i cant say the same for stocks..

This is why many retail investors lose money, even when vested in funds (UTs or ETFs for the matter). They panic sell when the market corrects or recession hits, instead of holding course and wait for the market to recover, and then pile in after the market hits a record run (ie buy in after the market has gained).

I don't give a hoot what the S&P500 does right now. If it tanks 20% right now, I'd buy more. All I care is that it will continue to trend upward over the next 2-3 decades.

 

[Maeda_Toshiie]

He stated a few:
1) PIMCO
2) First state
3) some UOB fund that i cannot rmb

PIMCO and First State are investment firms, much like Vanguard, Blackrock, SPDR. All these firms sells a whole bunch different mutual funds and ETFs.

 

[kuehteow]

One of my better performance fund is Neuberger Berman China Eqty A SGD-H Acc that I bought last September and it was giving me close to 30% return before the January crash.... now its only left with 15% profit.

I am more than willing to pay whatever charges that it is going to charge if they are able to generate the same kind of profit for me. 15-30% return in 6 months might not be much for a lot of people here, but good enough for me. So its all about your own expectation.

For balance funds, i would recommend templeton fund house, which is pretty consistent with dividends. But don't expect it to perform wonder like equity funds.

Generally, i don't really monitor much and only check it from time to time.

 

[naro]

The primary objection to unit trusts sold in Singapore is that they are high cost ways to accomplish particular investment objectives. Because of the high costs (management fees), they are best avoided....

....Unless you can find a genuine low cost unit trust. It's possible for a low cost unit trust to exist. They do in the United States, where they are called mutual funds. There are some perfectly lovely, low management fee, index mutual funds available in the United States. However, I'm not aware of any low cost unit trusts sold in Singapore, although I keep an open mind and hope that unicorn will be spotted some day.

So, what are the total costs for the unit trust(s) that you are considering? What's the total initial sales charge, what's the annual total management fee, and what's the redemption fee (if any)?

Unit trusts sold in Singapore are not unique in terms of offering "hands off" investing. That's an argument a unit trust seller often makes, but it's not actually true in Singapore any more. There are perfectly fine Exchange Traded Funds (ETFs) that offer the same generalized characteristic. [That argument is more reasonable in the United States where there are so-called "target" mutual funds (Vanguard's, for example) which really are "hands off," even more than anything sold or traded in Singapore. Unfortunately, "target" mutual funds don't seem to be available in ETF form yet, and they haven't been made available in Singapore yet either.]

Most if not all them can't beat low cost ETFs in terms of fees. That's fine IF they can consistently beat passive ETFs. Problem is that they largely don't. and you can't predict which UTs can do that. This is a well known problem (just ask Joel Greenblatt and John Bogle).

What are your opinions of "Infinity Global Stock Index Fund"?

Infinity Global Stock Index Fund Info

Based on the Dec 2017 factsheet, mgmt fee is 0.45% and total expense ratio is 0.8%.

And if bought through Phillip's POEMS platform, there is 0% sales charge and 0% platform fees.

Phillip Unit Trust

Is this considered cost effective in your opinion?

 

[antonpoh]

That fund has an annual management fee of 1.5% and a 5% sales charge. Both are obscene and common among unit trusts sold in Singapore. It also has a whopping S$6.5 million in the fund (through end of 2017), so fortunately not too many people are paying these steep charges.


Same steep fees, and unfortunately a few more people are paying them (S$29.18 million fund size).

For so many years you're still talking about the same thing. I buy online using poems account, no such sale charges.

https://www.poems.com.sg/utzerofees/?utm_source=sem&utm_campaign=sem

Spoiler

 

[BBCWatcher]

What are your opinions of "Infinity Global Stock Index Fund"?

....Is this considered cost effective in your opinion?

Getting better, but ETFs such as VWRL and IWDA are down around 0.25%/year expenses and below. VWRL and IWDA are also highly likely to be more tax efficient since they enjoy the 15% treaty tax rate on U.S. stock dividends. They do have broker commissions to buy and sell, but there's a big difference between 0.80% and 0.25% over even a relatively short holding period.

There are also certain trading conveniences with VWRL and IWDA, notably the ability to place limit orders.